Technical Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next

[Cariou]

bonjour
refroidisseur achete chez fiat 180euros au mois d avril aucun changement sur la piece je crois elle existe que chez fiat
vous pouvez netoyer l ancien refroidisseur avec de la soude caustique
bonne journée

 

[Steve928]

Bonjour Cariou,
Pour voir si j'ai bien compris, vous l'avez modifié comme sur cette photo?
Merci d'avance.

 

[Fredastaire]

Unfortunately I don't know any French and my phone won't translate it. However, of note the photograph of part number shows it to be the same as my 2017 removed cooler. Please can one of our members provide a translation?

 

[Cariou]

bonjours
c est exactement cela mais il faut que votre refroidisseur soit propre
hello it is exactly that but your cooler must be clean
bonne journée

 

[Baz in Kent]

Unfortunately I don't know any French and my phone won't translate it. However, of note the photograph of part number shows it to be the same as my 2017 removed cooler. Please can one of our members provide a translation?

hello
cooler purchased from fiat 180 euros in April no change on the part I believe only fiat supply it
you can clean the old cooler with caustic soda
have a good day

Hello Cario,
To see if I understood correctly, you modified it as in this photo?
Thanks in advance.

 

[Cariou]

bonsoir
exactement j ai fermer avec une plaque et mis un filtre sur l entrée du lpegr cest un preparateur automobile au circuit de NOGARO FRANCE ma dit de realiser ce schema

good evening exactly I closed with a plate and put a filter on the entrance of the lpegr it is a car preparer at the circuit of NOGARO FRANCE told me to carry out this diagram

 

[Smudger55]

Something that for some unknown reason isn’t popular with the contributors here but worked for me (Fiat supplied all replacement parts worth £6k free of charge) is to complain to Fiat‘s CEO and keep complaining until you get a satisfactory response. Twitter may be a useful ally.
IMHO it just isn‘t good enough for Fiat to saddle consumers - who have paid a lot of money - with huge repair bills on almost new engines, due to their poor design and unsympathetic after-sales service.
That said, hats off to them in my case as I now have a 2-year parts & labour warranty - which hopefully I won‘t need if what they tell me is true and the new parts plus software update are the solution.
The service bulletin @Fredastaire refers to is 10.023.19 which I’m happy to make available.
Good luck…

Hi Baz

I find myself with this problem, MHome just out of warranty Amber warning light loss of power. MHome currently with Fiat approved service centre and awaiting news from them as to whether Fiat will cover cost of repair.

I have read enough of this thread to worryingly ascertain the cost of such repairs are frightening. I would want to follow your approach of challenge Fiat to cover these costs and any information you are able to provide would be appreciated.

I am not mechanically or technically minded so a lot of what is posted on here won't mean anything to me.

I will continue to read through these posts to try and understand more but I am obviously very worried from what I have read.

If you are able to talk to me about this I can send you my mobile number. Cheers Smudger55

 

[Fredastaire]

Hi, I started this entire thread. Are you certain that your Ducato is the same build version as ours? They were ex works Italy Sept 2016 thro Sept 2019 (reasonably certain on dates), they are Euro 6 but without adblue. These non adblue variants if going to a motorhome manufacturer could actually be road registered say a year later.
If yes yours is one of our spec have you actual known fault codes you can give us?

 

[Smudger55]

Hi, I started this entire thread. Are you certain that your Ducato is the same build version as ours? They were ex works Italy Sept 2016 thro Sept 2019 (reasonably certain on dates), they are Euro 6 but without adblue. These non adblue variants if going to a motorhome manufacturer could actually be road registered say a year later.
If yes yours is one of our spec have you actual known fault codes you can give us?

Hi

Although MHome registered 2019, i checked the VIN and its a 2018. I don't have adblue. The codes seem the same, refer attached. Work done so far has cleared the warning light but Fiat mechanic says diagnostics still find a code. Will find out later which one.

 

[Baz in Kent]

Hi Baz

I find myself with this problem, MHome just out of warranty Amber warning light loss of power. MHome currently with Fiat approved service centre and awaiting news from them as to whether Fiat will cover cost of repair.

I have read enough of this thread to worryingly ascertain the cost of such repairs are frightening. I would want to follow your approach of challenge Fiat to cover these costs and any information you are able to provide would be appreciated.

I am not mechanically or technically minded so a lot of what is posted on here won't mean anything to me.

I will continue to read through these posts to try and understand more but I am obviously very worried from what I have read.

If you are able to talk to me about this I can send you my mobile number. Cheers Smudger55

Hi and sorry to hear you‘re suffering from what looks like the same problem (same fault codes I had).

You’ll presumably have seen I had a repair quote of £7.5k for which Fiat eventually agreed to cover the parts (£6k), I recovered some of the labour cost from my extended warranty. Since then the fault has recurred 5k miles later and Fiat have again replaced all the parts under their parts & labour warranty, they say the latest problem was because they supplied faulty recon injectors. Time will tell.

You’ll possibly receive different and perhaps conflicting advice from Fiat, your workshop and people on this forum. I’m no mechanical expert but I was successful in getting the help from Fiat which may or may not be a long term solution.

I attach again the relevant Fiat service bulletin which may help you understand what they believe are the technical,issues and solutions.

I don’t feel qualified to give you advice but if you want to pursue Fiat I suggest once you have a repair quote you initially phone Fiat Camper Assist in Italy on 0039 02 4412 160, in the hope they’ll get agreement for you under their goodwill scheme. For me this was declined but gave me a complaint reference I used when writing to Fiat‘s Europe (EMEA) and UK CEO’s. I should warn you the process took months and many, many emails and phone calls during which time I left my van at the Fiat workshop.

Feel free to PM me once you’re further down the track but I do feel it’s helpful to keep dialogue on the forum so everyone can see progress and chip in.

Good luck.

 

[theoneandonly]

Hi

Although MHome registered 2019, i checked the VIN and its a 2018. I don't have adblue. The codes seem the same, refer attached. Work done so far has cleared the warning light but Fiat mechanic says diagnostics still find a code. Will find out later which one.

Well smudger55 at least your'e in the right place now. you have the twin egr engine and the infamous P0401 problem.
There is a lot of experiance here concerning this (with and without Fiat involvement) as reading this thread will show.
I have not had the problem but analized data from a number of engines and problems.
first stop, read this.

Ducato twin EGR Engine with P0401 Code (2016 to 2019)

This does not refer to earlier single EGR systems or to later AdBlu SCR engines. Note this is a guide and not definative. It is up to you to make decissions. It is the result of my investigations of data from many contributors and discussion with...

www.fiatforum.com

now most important part of your 401 journey Buy Multiecuscan and an OBD2 dongle. Gendan is UK distributor, search here for alternatives.
You may ask why when i intend just handing it over to Fiat and getting a new mortgage (or getting Fiat to pay), Knowledge is King and key to this problem, even when Fiat fixed the problem BArry knew he had a problem by monitoring with MES (shorthand for Multiecuscan).

Tutorial to Measure specific Engine PIDs (Parameter ID) and Save data for analysis.

This was originally written to help one person with his Ducato totally new to MES to start saving data. it is not an exhaustive manual nor intended to be. Tutorial to Measure specific Engine PIDs (Parameter ID) and Save data for analysis. Open...

www.fiatforum.com

I have updated suggested pids. When you have MES up and running post results (csv files) or PM me and we will advise from there.

 

[Baz in Kent]

Well smudger55 at least your'e in the right place now. you have the twin egr engine and the infamous P0401 problem.
There is a lot of experiance here concerning this (with and without Fiat involvement) as reading this thread will show.
I have not had the problem but analized data from a number of engines and problems.
first stop, read this.

Ducato twin EGR Engine with P0401 Code (2016 to 2019)

This does not refer to earlier single EGR systems or to later AdBlu SCR engines. Note this is a guide and not definative. It is up to you to make decissions. It is the result of my investigations of data from many contributors and discussion with...

www.fiatforum.com

now most important part of your 401 journey Buy Multiecuscan and an OBD2 dongle. Gendan is UK distributor, search here for alternatives.
You may ask why when i intend just handing it over to Fiat and getting a new mortgage (or getting Fiat to pay), Knowledge is King and key to this problem, even when Fiat fixed the problem BArry knew he had a problem by monitoring with MES (shorthand for Multiecuscan).

Tutorial to Measure specific Engine PIDs (Parameter ID) and Save data for analysis.

This was originally written to help one person with his Ducato totally new to MES to start saving data. it is not an exhaustive manual nor intended to be. Tutorial to Measure specific Engine PIDs (Parameter ID) and Save data for analysis. Open...

www.fiatforum.com

I have updated suggested pids. When you have MES up and running post results (csv files) or PM me and we will advise from there.

@Smudger55 what @theoneandonly says about Multiecuscan where I’m concerned isn’t quite correct, I only bought it after the first repair. You may well find it useful but, to be perfectly frank, it’s provided a huge amount of data but with no guidance on how to interpret and analyse it, I find it interesting but frustrating. One good thing is you can read and clear fault codes with it.

I should add that my fault first occurred some 3k miles before it had to get repaired, like you the first action was clearing the fault codes and it took some time before happening again (around 2k miles), so if you have the same experience you may be ok for a while but during this time more damage may be done. I say ”may” advisedly as I don’t know for sure that this is the case and @Fredastaire has a different experience and solution.

 

[Smudger55]

Thanks to Baz, Fredastaire and Oneandonly. I will digest your input once i have time and get back to you. Cheers Smudger55

 

[Smudger55]

Having spoken with Fiat service workshop today, they arr trying to seek goodwill from Fiat. I don't hold much hope but will have an update early next week.

This potentially could ruin Xmas as we have booked a site near my mums for Xmas as a necessity. Cheers Smudger55

 

[Baz in Kent]

Having spoken with Fiat service workshop today, they arr trying to seek goodwill from Fiat. I don't hold much hope but will have an update early next week.

This potentially could ruin Xmas as we have booked a site near my mums for Xmas as a necessity. Cheers Smudger55

Good luck with that, you never know…

Have they told you exactly what they’re seeking a Fiat response for?

You may be lucky and still be able to use your van, in which case it would perhaps be worth investing in Multiecuscan so you can at least track for faults and clear any codes.

 

[Fredastaire]

I've fallen in to the Fiat big hole in the road and climbed out of it myself. Current my van is running fine with no fault codes - however- I don't know if there is another pot hole awaiting me.
.
So with my hands on experience and knowledge gained with my van, this set of problems, and changing parts myself, I can only but strongly steer you into buying Multiecuscan to put to a laptop. I prefer the hard wire cable from Gendan rather than Bluetooth dongle, (but that choice is yours). At that point between the one and only and me we can tell you how to interrogate your van to work out whats right/ what's wrong. What is 99% certain is that your HP EGR will not be causing any problem, more certain is that it will be the LP EGR system at fault.
I've my own write up notes which should be of further help, please use the private message system and give me you email and I'll send a copy for you to peruse.
If you personally don't have the tech experience have you a friend who can help?

 

[Baz in Kent]

I've fallen in to the Fiat big hole in the road and climbed out of it myself. Current my van is running fine with no fault codes - however- I don't know if there is another pot hole awaiting me.
.
So with my hands on experience and knowledge gained with my van, this set of problems, and changing parts myself, I can only but strongly steer you into buying Multiecuscan to put to a laptop. I prefer the hard wire cable from Gendan rather than Bluetooth dongle, (but that choice is yours). At that point between the one and only and me we can tell you how to interrogate your van to work out whats right/ what's wrong. What is 99% certain is that your HP EGR will not be causing any problem, more certain is that it will be the LP EGR system at fault.
I've my own write up notes which should be of further help, please use the private message system and give me you email and I'll send a copy for you to peruse.
If you personally don't have the tech experience have you a friend who can help?

@Smudger55 I’m sure you’ll get plenty of advice from these guys, however one thing I’ve done is avoid any self-repair in case Fiat use that as a reason to refuse helping. You’ll see in the service bulletin that Fiat do, in fact, recommend replacing the HP EGR valve so it’s a conundrum - I’d be keen to hear what your Fiat workshop says.

 

[theoneandonly]

@Smudger55 Get Multiecuscan and amass data that you can get help with. Just collecting data isnt going to offend FIAT is it. Follow Fiat advice, if they are paying for it fine if not consider other options.

 

[Smudger55]

@Fredastaire, @Oneandonly & @Baz in Kent. Firstly, my ignorance asks that by putting @ in front of your forum name it directs the post to that individual?

Secondly the advice of buying Multiecuscan and being provided with loads of data- whilst I am not questioning your advice and appreciate your offer of help, I am trying to understand how it will help me. As I will not ever attempt to do any self-repair, I will have the data to do what with. I appreciate that you will be able to tell what is right or wrong but if I am on my travels, I will need help. Therefore, whilst I may have to wait a while my breakdown service can come to my rescue, plug in and advise accordingly.

Apologies am I missing the point? Cheers Smudger55

 

[Fredastaire]

If you are on your travels and you call out your prescribed emergency road service they will no doubt give you a fault code number then clear the fault. History record gone.
.
If you have Multiecuscan you read not only the code but a definition and a list of events at that split second the mil light was set. You can do 'print screen' and save that event data before you clear the code.
.
Then you drive onwards - no awaiting a call out.
.
Next visit to your dealer you can show his engineer what happened.
.
For those of us wanting to sort our own vans we can individually interrogate our vans to work out likely defective parts that we can change or arrange to have changed.
.
The choice is very clearly yours......
.
We are here to help but only if it suits.