Technical Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next

[Cariou]

RE from page 18
Good eveningHere are some photos:The two lambda sensors and the temperature sensor, the five connectors: two lambda sensors and three temperature sensors under the hoodThe new LPEGR and the sealantGood evening

 

[Fredastaire]

@Cariou to clarify, have you taken a pipe to a paper air filter ?

 

[Cariou]

BONSOIR
a very fine metal filter with free air without pressure taken at the alternator level

 

[Cariou]

 

[Fredastaire]

@Cariou thanks.
Did you have any questions from your ministry for the annual inspection? (UK has the ministry of transport who certify garages for the annual inspection we refer to as 'MOT' )

 

[Cariou]

Hello,Here too, we have a checkup every two years. There are no particular problems if the warning light isn't on.Have a nice day.

 

[Serrow225]

View attachment 465599

I would remember to avoid any flooded roads as any liquid sucked up would cause catastrophic damage to engine.

 

[Cariou]

HELLO No problem, the alternator is lower, and this EGR valve only opens at 2,400 rpm. My air intake always stays clean, which is the main thing. I prefer this 2.3 engine even more than the 2.2 with the Ad Blouw.

 

[deejays]

HELLO No problem, the alternator is lower, and this EGR valve only opens at 2,400 rpm. My air intake always stays clean, which is the main thing. I prefer this 2.3 engine even more than the 2.2 with the Ad Blouw.

An excellent outcome @Cariou , although I must be a bit confused. You say the metal filtered intake is above the alternator, but it appears in your recent photo that the metal filter is fitted to the lower end of the flexible coupling that has the other end attached to the LPEGR cooler. In the same location it appears to be the outlet of the DPF that has been capped off. This location is below the alternator - the junction of the DPF outlet and the flexible coupling to the LPEGR cooler. Can you perhaps show another photo to clarify?

 

[Cariou]

bonjour
le moteur ne respire plus par ce tuyau car déconnecte du FAP donc plus de pression turbo échappement ,de ce faite la vanne egr a 3 voie située a admission entrée du turbo en haut du moteur prend la totaliser de l air venant du filtre a air . ce système mis en place en mai 2022 ne donne aucun autre défaut et aucun souci depuis 2022 le moteur et l admission reste toujours propre et c est le principal
bonne journée
HelloThe engine no longer breathes through this pipe because it's disconnected from the DPF, so there's no more turbo-exhaust pressure. As a result, the 3-way EGR valve located at the turbo intake at the top of the engine takes in the total air coming from the air filter. This system, installed in May 2022, has not caused any other faults and has not caused any problems since 2022. The engine and intake remain clean, and that's the main thing.Have a nice day.

 

[deejays]

bonjour
le moteur ne respire plus par ce tuyau car déconnecte du FAP donc plus de pression turbo échappement ,de ce faite la vanne egr a 3 voie située a admission entrée du turbo en haut du moteur prend la totaliser de l air venant du filtre a air . ce système mis en place en mai 2022 ne donne aucun autre défaut et aucun souci depuis 2022 le moteur et l admission reste toujours propre et c est le principal
bonne journée
HelloThe engine no longer breathes through this pipe because it's disconnected from the DPF, so there's no more turbo-exhaust pressure. As a result, the 3-way EGR valve located at the turbo intake at the top of the engine takes in the total air coming from the air filter. This system, installed in May 2022, has not caused any other faults and has not caused any problems since 2022. The engine and intake remain clean, and that's the main thing.Have a nice day.

Hello, So do you mean that the three way LPEGR valve is disabled so that it can only pass fresh filtered air from the standard FIAT fitted paper air filter?

 

[jackwhoo]

Hello, So do you mean that the three way LPEGR valve is disabled so that it can only pass fresh filtered air from the standard FIAT fitted paper air filter?

I believe Cariou means the lpegr exhaust side is not connected so cannot pass exhaust gasses , plus Cariou believes the lpegr does not pass unfilter air into the inlet due to believing inlet manifold being at greater pressure than atmospheric pressure

 

[deejays]

I believe Cariou means the lpegr exhaust side is not connected so cannot pass exhaust gasses , plus Cariou believes the lpegr does not pass unfilter air into the inlet due to believing inlet manifold being at greater pressure than atmospheric pressure

@Cariou I am intrigued - can you please explain exactly how your system operates? It would appear from your photographs that the air inlet to the turbo input will be a mix or fresh air from both the normal paper element filter and the metal filter you have fitted to the flexible coupling pipe feeding the LPEGR cooler - depending on the mixing position of the LPEGR?

 

[Serrow225]

@Cariou I am intrigued - can you please explain exactly how your system operates? It would appear from your photographs that the air inlet to the turbo input will be a mix or fresh air from both the normal paper element filter and the metal filter you have fitted to the flexible coupling pipe feeding the LPEGR cooler - depending on the mixing position of the LPEGR?

I assume that fitting a screen over LP pipe means air is still drawn into 3 way valve ? Just not exhaust gas as disconnected!
I think here in UK our MOT testers would fail it as a emission tamper.

 

[deejays]

I assume that fitting a screen over LP pipe means air is still drawn into 3 way valve ? Just not exhaust gas as disconnected!

That is how I see it. The issue is that there is no paper element to prevent dust and debris ingress and the danger of water pick up. The idea is a good one for those with an early cracked DPF with a still functioning cooler. But, the flexible pipe would require extending vertically and the fitment of a small paper element filter.

 

[Cariou]

message de 2022


BONSOIR
voici la vanne egr basse pression vous dévisser les 2 vis et le diagnostique sera vite fait car elle prendra de l air
de toute facon sur ces modele 2014 2019 LES VANNES HP EGR BP EGR ET PAPILLON tombe rarrement en panne il faut les demonter et netoyer je le fais tous les 2ans a chaque vidange ainsi que le collecteur admision et le cooler sous le radiateur BONNE SOIREE

Message from 2022GOOD EVENINGHere is the low-pressure EGR valve. Unscrew the two screws, and the diagnosis will be quick because it will take on air.In any case, on these 2014-2019 models, the HP EGR, BP EGR, and throttle valves rarely fail. They must be removed and cleaned. I do this every two years at each oil change, as well as the intake manifold and the cooler under the radiator. GOOD EVENING

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[Fredastaire]

My understanding is that fundamentally the LP temp sensor controls the amount of opening of the LP EGR . If the temp observed is reaching say 130 then the EGR will begin to close to prevent high temp exhaust going into the turbo inlet. So with a low recorded temp it will drive its servo motor wide open, at the half way point it will begin to close the butterfly and stop air from the paper filter

Thus the engine will be breathing all through the new metal gauze at the Flexi pipe.

I suspect that in our case of blocked cooler that there is maybe a pressure override program such that if the turbo is strangled by a blocked cooler that too will cause the servo motor to operate fully

But am I correct??

I suspect therefore that we need a modified Cariou design to either add a new paper filter or add pipework to Tee into the Fiat filter pipe (before the MAP).
.
Gentleman we need your comments and thoughts

 

[jackwhoo]

My understanding is that fundamentally the LP temp sensor controls the amount of opening of the LP EGR . If the temp observed is reaching say 130 then the EGR will begin to close to prevent high temp exhaust going into the turbo inlet. So with a low recorded temp it will drive its servo motor wide open, at the half way point it will begin to close the butterfly and stop air from the paper filter

Thus the engine will be breathing all through the new metal gauze at the Flexi pipe.

I suspect that in our case of blocked cooler that there is maybe a pressure override program such that if the turbo is strangled by a blocked cooler that too will cause the servo motor to operate fully

But am I correct??

I suspect therefore that we need a modified Cariou design to either add a new paper filter or add pipework to Tee into the Fiat filter pipe (before the MAP).
.
Gentleman we need your comments and thoughts

I think we are all thinking Cariou's vehicle is sucking in insufficiently filtered air via the open port on lpegr . We have been hinting hoping Cariou would pick problem up.
Well done Fred for being direct.
Insufficiently filtered air via a fairly open metal mesh is inviting big problems.

Best
J

 

[Cariou]

RE
au premier code 401 61 EN 2021javais remarquer que le code n existait pas en dessous de 7 degrés exterieur .
un filtre est instaler derrière la grille inox a l intérieur du tuyau la temperature a ce niveau 50 degre calculé en roulant le lp egr a ete changer neuf en mai 2022 ET actuellement tres propre verifier avec une camera par l entrée sous la vanne egr basse pression 3 voie .
egalement changer les bougie de chauffe 4 car 1 defaillante l admision etais propre ainssi que la pipe injection des gaz brulé de l egr avant moteur .
le egr m a couter 180 euros a l epoque ce sont les seuil frais avec les bougies que j ai eu sur ce vehicule
bonne soirée

 

[Cariou]

REau premier code 401 61 EN 2021javais remarquer que le code n existait pas en dessous de 7 degrés exterieur .un filtre est instaler derrière la grille inox a l intérieur du tuyau la temperature a ce niveau 50 degre calculé en roulant le lp egr a ete changer neuf en mai 2022 ET actuellement tres propre verifier avec une camera par l entrée sous la vanne egr basse pression 3 voie .egalement changer les bougie de chauffe 4 car 1 defaillante l admision etais propre ainssi que la pipe injection des gaz brulé de l egr avant moteur .le egr m a couter 180 euros a l epoque ce sont les seuil frais avec les bougies que j ai eu sur ce vehiculebonne soirée