Technical Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next

[Smudger55]

If you are on your travels and you call out your prescribed emergency road service they will no doubt give you a fault code number then clear the fault. History record gone.
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If you have Multiecuscan you read not only the code but a definition and a list of events at that split second the mil light was set. You can do 'print screen' and save that event data before you clear the code.
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Then you drive onwards - no awaiting a call out.
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Next visit to your dealer you can show his engineer what happened.
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For those of us wanting to sort our own vans we can individually interrogate our vans to work out likely defective parts that we can change or arrange to have changed.
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The choice is very clearly yours......
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We are here to help but only if it suits.

Thats helpful, thanks

 

[CheeseMonster]

I have a 2017 Ducato and have read this thread with great interest. I have spoken with Quantum Tuning (main office), they can delete the EGR. As I don't have a problem at present they didn't see the need to delete it. I was thinking more preventative.

Would this help in this instance?

 

[Fredastaire]

Thanks, it depends upon whether they have experience of this euro 6 non adblue variant. They have two EGRs, not just the one, they work with each other but not together. They would also need to have done it to v32 software.
These vans were only made over a three year period.
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I'll have to contact them.

 

[CheeseMonster]

Thanks, it depends upon whether they have experience of this euro 6 non adblue variant. They have two EGRs, not just the one, they work with each other but not together. They would also need to have done it to v32 software.
These vans were only made over a three year period.
.
I'll have to contact them.

They knew about the twin EGR, when I said it was a 2017 Euro 6 without adblue the reply was "twin EGR".

 

[Baz in Kent]

Thats helpful, thanks

If you’d like to see what multiecuscan (MES) gives you I have literally dozens of output files which are in spreadsheet format, plus screen shots of the faults identified, some of which I’ve already shared on this forum. You’re welcome to any you’d like.

If you’re familiar with spreadsheets you can load these into Excel or Numbers etc, also MES can show the data in graph format.

Hopefully other users will correct me with examples but the issue I have is that, despite having all this data, no one seems able to use it to identify what’s wrong or, more importantly, likely to cause the dreaded “limp mode”.

 

[Smudger55]

If you’d like to see what multiecuscan (MES) gives you I have literally dozens of output files which are in spreadsheet format, plus screen shots of the faults identified, some of which I’ve already shared on this forum. You’re welcome to any you’d like.

If you’re familiar with spreadsheets you can load these into Excel or Numbers etc, also MES can show the data in graph format.

Hopefully other users will correct me with examples but the issue I have is that, despite having all this data, no one seems able to use it to identify what’s wrong or, more importantly, likely to cause the dreaded “limp mode”.

Thanks Baz. I'm a bit demoralised by the whole thing, you spend all this money on a M'Home and then you may have loads more to find.

Anyway I live in hope and should be better informed by early next week. Cheers Smudger55

 

[Baz in Kent]

Thanks Baz. I'm a bit demoralised by the whole thing, you spend all this money on a M'Home and then you may have loads more to find.

Anyway I live in hope and should be better informed by early next week. Cheers Smudger55

I know how you feel, my van has been towed in 4 times this year, the first time I was in Portugal. Fair play to Fiat for the 2 major repairs without me having to pay but there have been times when I’ve been (literally) homeless as I live in it. All I can do is wish you luck.

 

[theoneandonly]

Hopefully other users will correct me with examples but the issue I have is that, despite having all this data, no one seems able to use it to identify what’s wrong or, more importantly, likely to cause the dreaded “limp mode”.

Ducato twin EGR Engine with P0401 Code (2016 to 2019)

This does not refer to earlier single EGR systems or to later AdBlu SCR engines. Note this is a guide and not definative. It is up to you to make decissions. It is the result of my investigations of data from many contributors and discussion with...

www.fiatforum.com

DPF Differential Pressure sensor Diagnosis with MES

How to diagnose a problem the DPF Differential Pressure sensor and its impact on the DPF. known in mes parameter list as Differential Pressure Sensor. These sensors are prone to any debris or condensation in the exhaust, which can cause the...

www.fiatforum.com

These are 2 tutorials that I wrote. information from mine and other engines.
From here there are examples that examines freeze frame data from 6 engines and multiple from one that shows all indicate the same issue. The 401 error always coincides with a large demand and inability to deliver it.This is due to an ecu error or air flow not being possible due to another condition.
The LPEGR position and cooler have been charecterised. In a poorly system the EGR valve is either trying to be fully open or closed, the LPEGR cooler temperature is very low compared to a working system. Details are in the tutorials.
The differential DPF sensor is also good at showing health of system and is used by fiat in its regen control methodology. Look at videos on Utube about cleaning the dpf insitu they all use scan tools looking at this sensor. The regen data is just about ignored.
The one thing i dont do is give a method to create a number and then say bellow this bad above this good
The knowledge on these engines grows with time and changing test methods. The area where we are lacking in understanding is Injector values and how these interact with other issues of sooting. On a gross perspective we were able to indentify bad injectors leading to DPF clogging.
The HPEGR valve sticking is an important issue to address and i now have different parameters i d like to monitor to help with this. kNowing when a code has been thrown helps understand the anonamolies on a graph.
There is a limit to the number of pids that can be measured and limited documentation to suggest what to test.

I am limited by the information that others will provide since i don't have a problem and am doing my best to avoid a problem.

 

[Baz in Kent]

Ducato twin EGR Engine with P0401 Code (2016 to 2019)

This does not refer to earlier single EGR systems or to later AdBlu SCR engines. Note this is a guide and not definative. It is up to you to make decissions. It is the result of my investigations of data from many contributors and discussion with...

www.fiatforum.com

DPF Differential Pressure sensor Diagnosis with MES

How to diagnose a problem the DPF Differential Pressure sensor and its impact on the DPF. known in mes parameter list as Differential Pressure Sensor. These sensors are prone to any debris or condensation in the exhaust, which can cause the...

www.fiatforum.com

These are 2 tutorials that I wrote. information from mine and other engines.
From here there are examples that examines freeze frame data from 6 engines and multiple from one that shows all indicate the same issue. The 401 error always coincides with a large demand and inability to deliver it.This is due to an ecu error or air flow not being possible due to another condition.
The LPEGR position and cooler have been charecterised. In a poorly system the EGR valve is either trying to be fully open or closed, the LPEGR cooler temperature is very low compared to a working system. Details are in the tutorials.
The differential DPF sensor is also good at showing health of system and is used by fiat in its regen control methodology. Look at videos on Utube about cleaning the dpf insitu they all use scan tools looking at this sensor. The regen data is just about ignored.
The one thing i dont do is give a method to create a number and then say bellow this bad above this good
The knowledge on these engines grows with time and changing test methods. The area where we are lacking in understanding is Injector values and how these interact with other issues of sooting. On a gross perspective we were able to indentify bad injectors leading to DPF clogging.
The HPEGR valve sticking is an important issue to address and i now have different parameters i d like to monitor to help with this. kNowing when a code has been thrown helps understand the anonamolies on a graph.
There is a limit to the number of pids that can be measured and limited documentation to suggest what to test.

I am limited by the information that others will provide since i don't have a problem and am doing my best to avoid a problem.

I acknowledge the work you’ve done but, as you know, at the root of my problem is not knowing for sure why these problems occur in the first place. Fiat put it down to inadequate software which v32 is suppose to have solved, however my problems recurred despite having all new EGR systems components and the software updated to v32. Fiat say the new (reconditioned) injectors they supplied were the cause of the new issues, only time will tell.

Clearly the worry is, if updating the software and replacing components as necessary doesn’t solve the problem, what will? For example, on a brand new LP EGR valve & cooler, what causes the LP EGR temperature to be lower than you say it should be?

 

[theoneandonly]

I acknowledge the work you’ve done but, as you know, at the root of my problem is not knowing for sure why these problems occur in the first place. Fiat put it down to inadequate software which v32 is suppose to have solved, however my problems recurred despite having all new EGR systems components and the software updated to v32. Fiat say the new (reconditioned) injectors they supplied were the cause of the new issues, only time will tell.

Clearly the worry is, if updating the software and replacing components as necessary doesn’t solve the problem, what will? For example, on a brand new LP EGR valve & cooler, what causes the LP EGR temperature to be lower than you say it should be?

The one thing that fits your position is that FIAT did not resolve the original problem. Was the cooler temperature sensor changed?

 

[Baz in Kent]

The one thing that fits your position is that FIAT did not resolve the original problem. Was the cooler temperature sensor changed?

AFAIK

 

[Smudger55]

@Fredastaire, @Baz in Kent & @Oneandonly

Update, following liaison with local Fiat service centre the total cost of repair about £6k. However Fiat, as a matter of goodwill, ha........ have agreed to pay for the parts leaving about £950 for labour as my cost. We we will be pursuing Fiat for cover labour costs.

The whole thing has been demoralising as I hoped the MHOME would be a thing of pleasure in our retirement years, not an outwards cash flow to resolve problems inheritant in poor quality and lack of recognition by these companies that they are art fault.

It is likely that our MHome will be up sale in the spring as we can't keep worrying about about these costs.

An update will follow but you have been a great help in steering me in the right direction. Cheers Smudger55

 

[Fredastaire]

And.....I've emailed Quantum Tuning a week or so back....no reply!

 

[Baz in Kent]

@Fredastaire, @Baz in Kent & @Oneandonly

Update, following liaison with local Fiat service centre the total cost of repair about £6k. However Fiat, as a matter of goodwill, ha........ have agreed to pay for the parts leaving about £950 for labour as my cost. We we will be pursuing Fiat for cover labour costs.

The whole thing has been demoralising as I hoped the MHOME would be a thing of pleasure in our retirement years, not an outwards cash flow to resolve problems inheritant in poor quality and lack of recognition by these companies that they are art fault.

It is likely that our MHome will be up sale in the spring as we can't keep worrying about about these costs.

An update will follow but you have been a great help in steering me in the right direction. Cheers Smudger55

Well I suppose it could have been worse and at least they didn’t initially turn you down like they did me.

I think, like you, I’ll be selling in the spring, hopefully we won’t get more problems in the meantime. Bear in mind that it took 5k miles after the first repair for it to be needed again.

All the best.

 

[theoneandonly]

The whole thing has been demoralising as I hoped the MHOME would be a thing of pleasure in our retirement years, not an outwards cash flow to resolve problems inheritant in poor quality and lack of recognition by these companies that they are art fault.

It is likely that our MHome will be up sale in the spring as we can't keep worrying about about these costs.

Probably a difficult thing think of, but don't give up on motorhoming just yet. If you sell up look at euro5 models that are sorted, problem here is all the prohibited zones turning up.

Just trying to tick a few boxes.Is yours a comformatic model? (Robotic auto).

 

[Smudger55]

Probably a difficult thing think of, but don't give up on motorhoming just yet. If you sell up look at euro5 models that are sorted, problem here is all the prohibited zones turning up.

Just trying to tick a few boxes.Is yours a comformatic model? (Robotic auto).

Thanks, yes i think its a comformatic model.

 

[Camper1]

Got the DPF back. It was demaged/cracked. That is the reason for sooth in the exhaust and engine. Good news is that the DPF was clean and that shows that combustion is perfect. In the pictures you can see that both sides are clean. No cleaning was performed. In the other picture you can see new core (part) in comparison with the old (sooth can be seen) and if you magnifie the picture crack becomes visible. Once again if there is black sooth in the exhaust pipe, DPF is eather cracked or melted. If there would be no LPEGR that would not be a big problem (except environment), but with gases beeing returned to engine this is a huge trouble. The last picture is new core (part)

 

[Fredastaire]

@Camper1 whilst I can say welcome to our ongoing working post , you have not included any comments or questions in your reply. I think you need to have a second go at a reply. Kind regards

 

[Camper1]

Sorry for wrong post.... I wat to add:
Hello all, first thank you all for sharing your experiences. I have same issue with this twin EGR engine... from 2017 and 105 000km driven
I recongized black exhaust and start investigations... I see that my DPF is broken, injectors with bad parameters etc... same error codes all what was already written here.
Regarding the prices I am starting with injectors exchange and looking for better price of DPF beauce currently anly original in FIAT for 5000 EUR available.
I have question to @BobSlo regarding what you wrote that gases returned to engine is a huge trouble: In case of broken DPF is not same gases going to engine trough LPEGR which are going there trough HPEGR? or is the difference made by preassure under which is going to engine? Can you please explain it more? thanks in advance

 

[theoneandonly]

from a post by @Poperon
After market catalysts DPF's manufactured in Mansfield

Manufacturer of aftermarket hot end emissions products

BM Catalysts is Europe’s leading manufacturer of aftermarket hot end emissions products, using best in class practices and materials.

www.bmcatalysts.co.uk

Not a full range, Ive put in a request for info on Ducato models. They have info on earlier models but not euro 6