Technical Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next

[Fredastaire]

The position sensor is in the cover plate of the LP EGR, it's got a sticking out probe. In the driven gear there is an eccentric hole. I think the sensor is a 'hall effect' component that is measuring the air gap.
The only way I see to get the cover off would be to cut a hole in the van floor about where the passengers feet are, then fit a plate over before refitting the cab rubber mat. It's very drastic, the option to undo the LP EGR to get at it to change the cam or remove the butterfly needs the DPF removing, we all know how difficult that procedure is.
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To undo the elbow duct / pipe of the LP EGR can be done by removing the battery box......tricky but possible. With the auto you can't reach the electric connector........

 

[evostik]

Just read this lengthy 401 thread - because I googled "Fiat Ducato 2017 Twin EGR"
I am due to look at a Fiat Ducato Campervan 2017. Would the twin EGR issue stop you from purchasing what looks to be an otherwise excellent conversion, and well priced van?

 

[Serrow225]

Just read this lengthy 401 thread - because I googled "Fiat Ducato 2017 Twin EGR"
I am due to look at a Fiat Ducato Campervan 2017. Would the twin EGR issue stop you from purchasing what looks to be an otherwise excellent conversion, and well priced van?

Hi , my personal opinion having had a large bill for repair,and a bigger bill due to fix problem recurring. At very minimum check exhaust for soot , after a test run in case it's been cleaned!
But any euro 6 van has potential big bills and big repairs, transit vans wet belts , add blue system failure etc etc .. so I would still buy my van but would have been nice to get £10k off asking price.

 

[Fredastaire]

@evostik there are many twin EGR Ducatos doing 200k miles without problems. Then there is a quantity of us with problems.
We have to use educated experience to have our opinions and knowledge.
You need to check the exhaust, it needs to be clean, you then need a long run and be able to wipe it out again to check it's still clean. Finally you need to check the software issue number is 28 or 32.
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This done you will have a good van.
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One last point you need to have the injector balance readings checked for their condition accuracy.
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Buy a later adblue version whether Ducato or Boxer or Relay and the risk of big repair bills gets scarier.....

 

[theoneandonly]

Just read this lengthy 401 thread - because I googled "Fiat Ducato 2017 Twin EGR"
I am due to look at a Fiat Ducato Campervan 2017. Would the twin EGR issue stop you from purchasing what looks to be an otherwise excellent conversion, and well priced van?

I would not be put off a twin egr model, i think they are probably the best euro6.
Follow serrows cleaning advice and if possible Get a working Multiecuscan set up then get a test run using template 4 and post here. Software version V28 manualV32 if auto

 

[evostik]

Hi , my personal opinion having had a large bill for repair,and a bigger bill due to fix problem recurring. At very minimum check exhaust for soot , after a test run in case it's been cleaned!
But any euro 6 van has potential big bills and big repairs, transit vans wet belts , add blue system failure etc etc .. so I would still buy my van but would have been nice to get £10k off asking price.

Thank you for answering, and your tips re the exhaust check - much appreciated. Looking at the van this Thursday!

 

[evostik]

@evostik there are many twin EGR Ducatos doing 200k miles without problems. Then there is a quantity of us with problems.
We have to use educated experience to have our opinions and knowledge.
You need to check the exhaust, it needs to be clean, you then need a long run and be able to wipe it out again to check it's still clean. Finally you need to check the software issue number is 28 or 32.
.
This done you will have a good van.
.
One last point you need to have the injector balance readings checked for their condition accuracy.
.
Buy a later adblue version whether Ducato or Boxer or Relay and the risk of big repair bills gets scarier.....

Thankyou Fredastaire
That is really useful..
I was wondering today, what would the % of faulty EGR vans be? . If it was 5% or 10% only, my critical thinking would say it's worth a bet.
I was feeling negative after reading the long thread, and imagining it was a 95% issue!!

My choice at the moment is a Fiat Ducato 2017 tidy van, new conversion done by a one man band professional for around 20k. Can't remember mileage, think he said 65-75K
Or do I go for my third T4 multi-van in a row. Been offered a red one, mint with 150K, 2002 plate, from my vw garage guys.

Thanks again for the advice , & what an amazing thread and resource you have all created - amazing

 

[evostik]

I would not be put off a twin egr model, i think they are probably the best euro6.
Follow serrows cleaning advice and if possible Get a working Multiecuscan set up then get a test run using template 4 and post here. Software version V28 manualV32 if auto

Thank you "the one and only"
The idea of error codes, scans etc, scares me as it is the new & unknown.
13 years in 2 T4 Multivans up and down the M5 & M4 from Devon to MK - 170.000 miles done - 2 breakdowns only & sold the T4's for 75% of purchase price each time. Parts are getting harder to locate now though.
I guess I will have to embrace the multiecuscan if I go for the Fiat Ducato!

 

[theoneandonly]

I guess I will have to embrace the multiecuscan if I go for the Fiat Ducato!

I think it should be compulsory for any Ducato owner to have Multiecuscan. Even if you cant understand whats going on there are many here that can help.

 

[MarcoWuerttemberger]

Software version V28 manualV32 if auto

hmm...in my case i got all the mess even with V28 since production of my car. Fiat will update even the Manual Version to V32 as they wrote in their Service Bulletin for the Errors everyone here are suffering with.
But only If you do all your Services at a official Fiat Dealer

 

[theoneandonly]

hmm...in my case i got all the mess even with V28 since production of my car. Fiat will update even the Manual Version to V32 as they wrote in their Service Bulletin for the Errors everyone here are suffering with.
But only If you do all your Services at a official Fiat Dealer

V28 is it right or wrong? A big question, almost as big as how does the Fiat pro system actually work. I was told by AM portsmouth durring a service (the whole reason I was there) they are not permitted/ the system wont allow them to update to V32 without a problem (apperrently other dealers do). Will V32 prevent a problem thats allready there? Is V28 good enough for a good system? What we need has been stated before is a tunning expert to reverse engineer the early maps v28,v32, what are the differences. some questions may be answerable via MES if someone captures the data eg Regen how much fuel injected what temperature achieved. One thing is apparent its not just Motorhomes affected and all variations 130,150,180 are affected. one thing id like to tie down is date van left factory any dates from original c of c. What is real cause or cluster of variables, batch related DPF maufacture MAP sensor (wrong one fitted, this is becoming more relevant) An open question from my position of having a Nov 2016 motor with V28 updated at 2300 miles (yes just over 2 thousand) is it going to fail?

 

[Jiwawa]

An open question from my position of having a Nov 2016 motor with V28 updated at 2300 miles (yes just over 2 thousand) is it going to fail?

I believe mine was updated at 5 months old and around 4,500 miles. It first failed at just over 6yrs and c.43,000 miles.

I don't know if that gives you hope or depresses you!

 

[theoneandonly]

I believe mine was updated at 5 months old and around 4,500 miles. It first failed at just over 6yrs and c.43,000 miles.

I don't know if that gives you hope or depresses you!

more questions do you know when it left the factory. I think i'm lucky in that ive got paperwork that most people wont have ie the dealer made mistakes on first registration and VED. Swansea sent me all the original doccumentation including the invoice from Rapido.

 

[Piotr129]

Sorry, maybe my ideas are not perfect, but I'm trying to understand exactly how this system works. At the moment I don't have a problem with my Fiat so I can't experiment, but I'm trying to help. Maybe we're looking too far for a solution. What if we modified the throttle valve so that closing it wouldn't choke the engine. Of course, the Hall sensor must indicate the correct values, but the throttle valve itself will be open all the time.

 

[Fredastaire]

@Piotr129 life isn't that easy. The engine has two throttles, one for the front of the engine and one for the rear. The rear throttle is an integral part of the LP EGR. One small electric drive motor operates the LP exhaust flap valve, on the flap shaft is externally mounted the cam plate. At (circa) half shaft rotation the cam plate operates the throttle butterfly. To alter the cam or remove the butterfly disc needs removal of the LP EGR.
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Removal of the LP EGR needs the DPF removing, this consumes a day's work up on a ramp as you need to drop the subframe first.
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These are the problem facing us, not easy...

 

[Jiwawa]

more questions do you know when it left the factory.

I dug out the old paperwork and I have the CoC of the Fiat base dated 26.03.17.

It includes the info -
Type 250 Variant G7ABU Version GYC

HTH

 

[theoneandonly]

I dug out the old paperwork and I have the CoC of the Fiat base dated 26.03.17.

It includes the info -
Type 250 Variant G7ABU Version GYC

HTH

tHANks . march 17 is also very useful as I know of one other march 17 model with wrong MAP and LPEGR cooler syndrome. Am i hoping we have the beggings of a trend. I hope so anyone else out there with the blocked cooler and a factory date.

 

[Piotr129]

I understand.
I am writing now about the front throttle valve, which is accessible. If the butterfly valve were modified so that it did not throttle the engine, even with a clogged radiator, it would not throttle the engine. Mechanical modification of the butterfly only, the drive and sensor side should remain unchanged. I think it would be worth trying.

 

[CheeseMonster]

if someone captures the data eg Regen how much fuel injected what temperature achieved.

I am/was able to capture regen events using my arduino. From memory, one could, during the period where the response is greater than Zero pole and record other parameters.

I'm busy with selling our home at the moment but willing to share my Arduino code.

 

[Fredastaire]

@Piotr129 I regret to say that the front throttle is not part of our problem.
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If you refer to the layout system drawing , (the one you show is the one I revised and corrected a couple of years back), you need to look at the rear mounted EGR. This rear one has the double function, (from only one electric motor drive).
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When this rear EGR can't pass enough recirc exhaust gas, it then fully operates to close off the butterfly disc. This then means that any air from the air filter is blocked off, so with the cooler blocked off by soot the engine now has zero opportunity to suck air into the turbo inlet.
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Thus it's this rear device that we have to counter attack to get around a blocked cooler.