Technical Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next

[CheeseMonster]

I am not sure, as far as I know bluetooth has a lower bandwidth / bitrate than an USB module. To have a sufficiently detailed (resolution / scanrate) of the CAN signals that are to be logged, I have always used an USB interface.

I poll individual requests at 100mS which has worked OK in my limited testing with an Arduino and a cable. I don't know how fast you can poll before returned data starts to drop due to activity on the can-bus or Bluetooth speeds.

 

[theoneandonly]

I would like to use BT module interface and keep it available for all platforms. Would be handy to check codes by phone when on the road.

I found following one from electronic.fuchs . Would that do the trick?

Bluetooth Stardiag Interface CAN327 (CANBUS) - Electronic-Fuchs

"Bluetooth Stardiag Interface CAN327 (CANBUS) – wireless diagnostic interface for seamless CANBUS vehicle analysis and troubleshooting."

electronic-fuchs.de

reading the spec

• High quality Bluetooth interface with microcontroller - ideal for the diagnosis software MultiECUScan / AlfaOBD.
• LED for function control and data exchange
• Supports all OBD2 protocols (CAN / VPW / PWM / ISO)
• Reliable communication with the Fahrzeug.100% function with MultiECUScan / AlfaOBD, since this interface has been optimized. Bluetooth interfaces are generally not advisable for example, for the teaching of a remote (proxy alignment). All control devices approachable, also in connection with yellow adapter! (Beware of interfaces with the inscription "ELM327" from a large auction house-these are not 100% compatible).
• Short-circuit proof!
• Integrated 16-pole diagnostic connector
• Suitable for software MultiECUScan, AlfaOBD
• Access to many control devices such as Engine, ABS, Body Computer, and many more
• Access to Service / Oil Reset function

I would hope so. Look at the size will it be possible to permamently leave in position with lid on. I use the vgate permamently fixed to car with anextention cable else where hidden from view.

 

[seantut]

Evening all, i appear to be the latest victim of this Fiat saga. After searching my issues i have stumbled across this crazy post, unbelievable efforts by everyone involved.
I have a 2017 2.3 manual with the amber engine management light (no limp mode) i've just set up MES and only plugged in for quick scan to check software version and errors but haven't had chance to get out for a run yet. Software version is 0024 and exhaust is sooty, MES showing error code P041A-15
So next steps will be to get out for a drive using @theoneandonly template 4? Any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

[seantut]

Evening all, i appear to be the latest victim of this Fiat saga. After searching my issues i have stumbled across this crazy post, unbelievable efforts by everyone involved.
I have a 2017 2.3 manual with the amber engine management light (no limp mode) i've just set up MES and only plugged in for quick scan to check software version and errors but haven't had chance to get out for a run yet. Software version is 0024 and exhaust is sooty, MES showing error code P041A-15
So next steps will be to get out for a drive using @theoneandonly template 4? Any help will be greatly appreciated.
View attachment 453433

Also just to note - my outside temp sensor doesn't work, i believe this can cause issues?

 

[seantut]

Morning all, managed to get out for a run this morning, had to clear fault 401 on 4 separate occasions. Every time i cleared the fault whilst driving i lost my recording. Is that normal? Stop 20 minutes into the journey cleared any faults then drove again for around 30 mins i believe. See below screenshot and csv from template 5 file. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

 

[Fredastaire]

Whilst @theoneandonly will analyse the csv, it shows he classic ridiculous software demand for air volume that cannot possibly be met.
.
You have a blocked LP EGR cooler, do not under any circumstance believe the statement about the HP, do not change the HP EGR.
.
Let's await the analysis. Have you checked yet which software revision you have?
.
The cooler can be cleaned with caustic and reused. I have the Fiat part number for the new O ring plus I have had it measured by a hydraulics engineer who has given me the UK standard part number.
.
I must get my info on here.....
.

 

[Sillystu84]

@Sillystu84 , I wonder if I'm too late on your rebuild to ask another but of help?
.
We have been trying to locate a wiring diagram for the last year but can't find one.
.
Have you still got Access to the LP EGR temperature probe connector? I would like to know the wire colours of the engine harness. I'm theorising to add a resistance across these two wires to see if a high temp reading by the ECU might reduce the LP EGR flap opening and slow or stop the exhaust input.
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I'm also wanting the wires detail to the LP EGR main unit
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Best would be colour photos of the harness wires if at all possible?
.
Kind regards

Whilst @theoneandonly will analyse the csv, it shows he classic ridiculous software demand for air volume that cannot possibly be met.
.
You have a blocked LP EGR cooler, do not under any circumstance believe the statement about the HP, do not change the HP EGR.
.
Let's await the analysis. Have you checked yet which software revision you have?
.
The cooler can be cleaned with caustic and reused. I have the Fiat part number for the new O ring plus I have had it measured by a hydraulics engineer who has given me the UK standard part number.
.
I must get my info on here.....
.

Fredastaire sorry it’s taken me a while to reply to your last post but I have some pictures for you

The two black wires are off the temp sensor and other two are wiring look end

 

[seantut]

Whilst @theoneandonly will analyse the csv, it shows he classic ridiculous software demand for air volume that cannot possibly be met.
.
You have a blocked LP EGR cooler, do not under any circumstance believe the statement about the HP, do not change the HP EGR.
.
Let's await the analysis. Have you checked yet which software revision you have?
.
The cooler can be cleaned with caustic and reused. I have the Fiat part number for the new O ring plus I have had it measured by a hydraulics engineer who has given me the UK standard part number.
.
I must get my info on here.....
.

Thanks for your response.

As i expected to be honest, i have a sooty exhaust and software version 0024. I'm assuming cracked DPF.

The HP EGR was changed by the previous owner by the looks of it, i believe they knew of this ongoing issue before i purchased the van and hid it when i went to inspect the van before purchase.

I look forward to @theoneandonly analysis.

 

[seantut]

Thanks for your response.

As i expected to be honest, i have a sooty exhaust and software version 0024. I'm assuming cracked DPF.

The HP EGR was changed by the previous owner by the looks of it, i believe they knew of this ongoing issue before i purchased the van and hid it when i went to inspect the van before purchase.

I look forward to @theoneandonly analysis.

Saying that though my DPF diferential pressure doesn't ever go above 82mbar during that run

 

[theoneandonly]

Whilst @theoneandonly will analyse the csv, it shows he classic ridiculous software demand for air volume that cannot possibly be met.
.
You have a blocked LP EGR cooler, do not under any circumstance believe the statement about the HP, do not change the HP EGR.
.
Let's await the analysis. Have you checked yet which software revision you have?
.
The cooler can be cleaned with caustic and reused. I have the Fiat part number for the new O ring plus I have had it measured by a hydraulics engineer who has given me the UK standard part number.
.
I must get my info on here.....
.

@seantut
as fred says the Actual Air Intake % of Desired is typicaly 25% in failed systems yours is 25.7

Engine	G	G	G	G	E	K	S	Z	SEANUT
Date	23/5/2022	26/5/2022	9/6/2022	9/6/2022	13/7/2022	2/5/2022
operating time	59611	59922	60081	60244	40159	436805	72032	77970
Startup counter	3018	3035	3046	3052	2533	15444	4659	4502
Battery V	14.352	14.538	14.406	14.43	14.054	14.43	14.299	14.191
engine speed	2010	1990	1802		1914	1791	1598	2089
air intake Qty	765.1	804.5	683	711.5	611	842	683	625.5	720
Desired air intake Qty	2997.5	3185	2602.5	2709	2251.5	3406	2539	1893.5	2791
Engine temp	82.5	73.5	79	81	74	85	60.5	78.5
LPEGR	4.68	4.68	4.7	4.68	4.69	4.74	4.77	4.65
Boost Pressure	1455	1461	1252	1333	1181	1499	1159	1050
Ait temp (Boost/manifold	37.5	30	37	36	28.5	35.5	33	25.5
Desired EGR posn	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Actual EGR posn	0.014	0.06	0.021	0.044	0.06	−0.011	0.021	0
Total fuel qty	45.92	49.84	37.46	38.98	31.1	42.56	34.84	18.92
LPEGR target posn	4.77	4.77	4.82	4.78	4.79	4.82	4.86	4.75
Throttle position	11.87	11.87	11.87	11.87	11.94	11.87	11.75	11.87
Air quality control	Dissabled	Dissabled	Dissabled	Dissabled	Dissabled	Dissabled		Dissabled
DPF Regen	off	off	off	off	off	off		off
EGR exclusion valve	off	off	off	off	off	off		off
Actual Air Intake % of Desired	25.5	25.3	26.2	26.3	27.1	24.7	26.9	33.0	25.7

Things to note:
1 Actual Air Intake % of Desired is typicaly 25% with one example at 33%

I must get my info on here.....
yes

 

[theoneandonly]

@seantut even though there is no lpegr cooler temperature the freeze frame data and the rapid open or closed action of the lpegr valve with sooty exhaust absolutely confirm you have a blocked lpegrcooler. the turbo graph is not good the turbo is not achieving the required boost, typical, when the lpegrcooler work is done it will need checking to prove turbo solenoid and turbo is OK. I will add T4 and T9 in next post

 

[seantut]

Thank you @theoneandonly that's great. I will get out again tomorrow morning and run T4 and T9 i have them from your tutorial guide unless they have changed at all?

So currently it looks like the DPF is in good working order because the differential pessure mbar doesn't exceed 99?

Could the injectors be causing the blocked cooler as the variances are greater than the +- 2?

I will come back to you in the moring with the csv files of T4 & T9.

 

[theoneandonly]

yES THEY HAVE CHANGED slightly

 

[seantut]

Morning, i managed to get out for a couple of runs first thing T4 & T9.

 

[theoneandonly]

have you got any data eg a c of c giving date of leaving factory or date of taxation. Has it ever been to a fiat pro fro servicing. is it a 130 manual?

Looking at your regeneration data on T9 is quite disconcerting. typicaly it is between 200-300miles but upto 500-600 max.yours for total life has been 170miles and recently (last 5) is down to 77miles. ave temperature 620C. i will have to add this to a items to monitor on iffy engines it may be a way of creating an early warning system (not very early has it requires a mil code to be thrown). Your enginge freeze frame data applied to historic info does show a simple diagnostic for lpegr cooler clogging issues simply confirmed with live data.
The injector variances data has always been a concern because fiat has given a limmit but no details has to conditions. It is now belived to be a limmit at idle and no engine ive read has failed at idle.


with only 13000miles on the clock this motor has been getting ready for failure from day one. How long have you had it Are you going to concider DIY or Hitting Fiat HARD for a contribution.

 

[seantut]

All i know is the vehicle was first registered in November 2017. I have only owned the vehicle a couple of months, it came with a small service history but no info showing it's ever been to a fiat pro. Yes it's a 130 manual.

Interesting, it's a little bit confusing as the DPF differential pressure never exceeds 80-90mbar across the 3 runs template 4, 5 and 9 but filter clogging is now at 100%? I also notice the particle filter temp reaches around 470 degress on T4 and T5 runs, is this normal?
Distance from last regen is currently at 130miles, i believe the last 5 regens that average out at 77miles the data could be skewed as the garage selling the van could have been been carrying out force regens as they were aware of an underlying issue. Without driving on further i won't know i guess.
What could be causing the DPF to regen every 170miles? Could it be software version 24?

So far we know that the LPEGR needs replacing but not whats caused it to become blocked?

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get my head around all this information. I'm not sure what my plan of action is yet, it's still under warranty but it has been into a local garage and their diagnosis was to start changing various parts without understanding the issue, to which i declined.

 

[MSjoberg]

What could be causing the DPF to regen every 170miles? Could it be software version 24?

Version 24 does not do such frequent regens just by default. Some condition(s) must have triggered it to do it.

My 2018 had version 24 until recently when I managed to persuade the workshop to upgrade it, and the regen intervals have been about 500-600 kms every time I've checked.

 

[seantut]

Or could it be that the DPF is cracked thats why the differential pressure doesn't get too high to suggest blockage?

 

[Sillystu84]

Or could it be that the DPF is cracked thats why the differential pressure doesn't get too high to suggest blockage?

My dpf was cracked when I looked inside you could see one of the filter things was hanging down lower than others and I could push it back up with screw driver,, I also believe this was the cause of the pressure sensor pipe popping

Anyway does anyone know where to get a workshop manual from ?

 

[theoneandonly]

My dpf was cracked when I looked inside you could see one of the filter things was hanging down lower than others and I could push it back up with screw driver,, I also believe this was the cause of the pressure sensor pipe popping

Anyway does anyone know where to get a workshop manual from ?

No workshop manual available to my knowledge.
@seantut
With such low mileage i can assume a Motorhome so possibly left factory Jan- march 17. This is smack bang in the "suspect period" if there was one.
The DPF is cracked and excess soot enters the lpegr system not clog the dpf. What is part number on the MAP sensor The excessive soot is generated by poor fuel control eg dodgy injectors, programming sensor issues (wrong values due to clogging or inccorect sensor fitted at factory (yes its happened more than once) even blocked air filters wont help, any of the normal problems). I suspect that this period also included iffy batches of DPFs.
The amount of **** (Fiat specification for soot oil and unburnt fuel) in this engine (from lpegr temp) is one of the worst ive seen. The LPEGR openning/ closing action (see previous graph) is absolutely typical of blocked cooler cracked DPF.

To resolve this engines problems my Take
4 new injectors
new DPF
New LPEGR cooler (or cleaned, preference for new and clean up inspect for spare.
Clean HPEGR LPEGR valveS and intake manifold
Renew MAP sensor (small beer and will be absolutely cacked in ****).
Update software version to V032.

Slight paradox here V28 ok if engine running ok but update to V32 if not.

If under warrenty this is the minimum you should expect/ accept. If not its return to seller as unfit for purpose.