Technical Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next

[seantut]

@theoneandonly it's a van not motorhome.

I will be making a call to the dealer tomorrow to see about getting it back to them, unfortunately i missed the 30 days refund period. I believe the next best option from the consumer rights act is to give them the oppourtunity to fix the issues themselves.

Thanks for your help, i will let you know how i get on.

 

[Fredastaire]

An update on mine. It's me who originated this entire post.
Two years back I had my cooler changed, since then I've always refueled since then with Ultra Diesel dosed with Millers Dieselmax. In recent months @theoneandonly noticed my turbo was lagging a little, I saw with multiecuscan that the LP EGR was consistently now running high openings, I also had P0401 in the ECU memory yet it hadn't triggered the MIL light.
Knowing I had blocked cooler syndrome I originally was looking at Insitu cleaning the cooler mesh, alas I've had a bad back so that put paid to that idea. With MOT due I've had my garage change the cooler again so I've another two years hopefully. The removed cooler I'm to clean with caustic ready for next time
That brings us to the recent posts.
.
I'm still if the opinion to clean the cooler Insitu. We've had the recent photo of the top elbow of the cooler exposed with removal of the LP EGR.
.
We have to find away to remove the LP EGR from the top and leave the DPF/ suspension untouched.
.
With the LP EGR removed, we undo the bottom flexi ribbed pipe, fit a lead(?) disc to blank off and re tighten. This would allow filling the entire cooler with caustic, allow to soak before flushing with clean water.
.
So gentlemen will somebody work out 'the how's
.
I'm wondering if it's possible to undo the gearbox mount and with all drive shafts etc still connected have enough room to reach down and disconnect.
.
Ideas and comments welcome.

 

[Sillystu84]

An update on mine. It's me who originated this entire post.
Two years back I had my cooler changed, since then I've always refueled since then with Ultra Diesel dosed with Millers Dieselmax. In recent months @theoneandonly noticed my turbo was lagging a little, I saw with multiecuscan that the LP EGR was consistently now running high openings, I also had P0401 in the ECU memory yet it hadn't triggered the MIL light.
Knowing I had blocked cooler syndrome I originally was looking at Insitu cleaning the cooler mesh, alas I've had a bad back so that put paid to that idea. With MOT due I've had my garage change the cooler again so I've another two years hopefully. The removed cooler I'm to clean with caustic ready for next time
That brings us to the recent posts.
.
I'm still if the opinion to clean the cooler Insitu. We've had the recent photo of the top elbow of the cooler exposed with removal of the LP EGR.
.
We have to find away to remove the LP EGR from the top and leave the DPF/ suspension untouched.
.
With the LP EGR removed, we undo the bottom flexi ribbed pipe, fit a lead(?) disc to blank off and re tighten. This would allow filling the entire cooler with caustic, allow to soak before flushing with clean water.
.
So gentlemen will somebody work out 'the how's
.
I'm wondering if it's possible to undo the gearbox mount and with all drive shafts etc still connected have enough room to reach down and disconnect.
.
Ideas and comments welcome.

Fredastaire

Unfortunately there’s no way to get to it unless you drop sub frame as it’s well tucked out the way, but if I’m honest dropping the sub frame was easy, undo the 4 bolts holding steering rack, take track end rods off and undo 4 bolts at back for frame and 2under wheel arch I left everything else attached and swung it forward with a strap holding subframe out the way,, remove battery and battery box and now you have plenty of room,, get the van as high as you can tho ill fire some pictures over

 

[seantut]

@Fredastaire i think I read previously that you believe you also have a cracked dpf, I assume it hasn’t affected your MOT as of yet?

 

[Fredastaire]

@seantut no problems on mot. My garage guy is very very strict, I've known him over 30 years. He won't allow anything through that's not right. It passed last week.

 

[seantut]

Anyone know why a cracked dpf doesn’t throw up a fault code?

 

[Mike D Halliday]

No, i did not show them or send it to them. I did give them the service bulletin number so they may look it up, they may not. Still waiting to hear from the second garage as to whether they can deal with the warranty company. Nothing is ever easy!!!

Update on my issues:

So, I managed to get the van back from Fiat Pro Deeside (after 2 weeks without them doing any work on her but surprisingly, they did not charge me any money) and to an independant garage fairly close to where we are based. They had it for a week and cleaned the DPF and inlet manifold, checked the LP EGR for blockages and re-replaced the map sensor (The one i had replaced 6 months ago was clogged again) and the turbo solenoid (They said the one that was replaced recently was incorrect, and the original one I left in the van was completely wrong).

The chap at the garage also said lots of soot blew out of the exhaust and a DPF regen was able to be performed (It would not do this before the clean) and that now all the readings are within the proper parameters when viewing live data.

10 hours labour cleaning the engine intakes/dpf and 2 bottles of chemical cleaner at a cost of £1342 inc vat, but, she passed the MOT, which I thought was a miracle. They also recommended to not use supermarket diesel, but Shell VPower or BP premium every time (I cant afford that so will be using just Shell or BP regular diesel).

The van is running better but I still have a P0238-61 Turbocharger Control Positive Drift (Signal Calculation Failure) error from a cold start (The other errors have now gone). Once the P0238 error is shown I can run the van for many, many miles after a code clear. The exhaust is less sooty now too. I have taken her on a 100 mile journey from cheshire to cumbria and we are on another 66 or so miles up to Scotland on Thursday this week and she ran well, not lumpy and MPG was way better. On Sunday I will be coming back down to cheshire on the M6 (about 170 miles) so will see how she behaves (I will have to do a code clear after each cold start)

The garage could not get rid of this initial EML and its the first issue of this type they have seen (They deal with a lot of motorhomes for a local dealer).

After all this I still don't know what version of software I have. The fiat pro garage could not tell me and the independant garage's reader does not report it.

! am now going to find a local Fiat main dealer (No more Professional garages) to see if they can do an update or at least check what version i currently have.

Beginning to think I should cut my losses, trader her in and get a smaller motorhome with a different engine and put all this down to being unlucky with this van. Our previous fiat ducato based motorhome was 4 years older and we had no issues at all.

At least we are able to use the motorhome again now (woo hoo) - we have been in air BnB's or holiday lodges for the last 4 weeks, again at additional cost, so i am now flat broke Ho Hum.

 

[theoneandonly]

Anyone know why a cracked dpf doesn’t throw up a fault code?

No directly attributable sensors. ie all sensors still giving values within acceptable limits. The only sensors applicable in the area are the dpf differential pressure sensor and the 3 temperature sensors. The dpf pressure sensor with a cracked sensor will give values within spec The 2 oxygen sensors may give strange values under certain circumstances but be within specifications. The only error codes that indicate a cracked DPF are combinations of P0401 and P0236/ P0238

 

[seantut]

Afternoon all, do any of you know a Fiat pro local to the Watford area happy to carry out the software update?

 

[Mike D Halliday]

Update on my issues:

So, I managed to get the van back from Fiat Pro Deeside (after 2 weeks without them doing any work on her but surprisingly, they did not charge me any money) and to an independant garage fairly close to where we are based. They had it for a week and cleaned the DPF and inlet manifold, checked the LP EGR for blockages and re-replaced the map sensor (The one i had replaced 6 months ago was clogged again) and the turbo solenoid (They said the one that was replaced recently was incorrect, and the original one I left in the van was completely wrong).

The chap at the garage also said lots of soot blew out of the exhaust and a DPF regen was able to be performed (It would not do this before the clean) and that now all the readings are within the proper parameters when viewing live data.

10 hours labour cleaning the engine intakes/dpf and 2 bottles of chemical cleaner at a cost of £1342 inc vat, but, she passed the MOT, which I thought was a miracle. They also recommended to not use supermarket diesel, but Shell VPower or BP premium every time (I cant afford that so will be using just Shell or BP regular diesel).

The van is running better but I still have a P0238-61 Turbocharger Control Positive Drift (Signal Calculation Failure) error from a cold start (The other errors have now gone). Once the P0238 error is shown I can run the van for many, many miles after a code clear. The exhaust is less sooty now too. I have taken her on a 100 mile journey from cheshire to cumbria and we are on another 66 or so miles up to Scotland on Thursday this week and she ran well, not lumpy and MPG was way better. On Sunday I will be coming back down to cheshire on the M6 (about 170 miles) so will see how she behaves (I will have to do a code clear after each cold start)

The garage could not get rid of this initial EML and its the first issue of this type they have seen (They deal with a lot of motorhomes for a local dealer).

After all this I still don't know what version of software I have. The fiat pro garage could not tell me and the independant garage's reader does not report it.

! am now going to find a local Fiat main dealer (No more Professional garages) to see if they can do an update or at least check what version i currently have.

Beginning to think I should cut my losses, trader her in and get a smaller motorhome with a different engine and put all this down to being unlucky with this van. Our previous fiat ducato based motorhome was 4 years older and we had no issues at all.

At least we are able to use the motorhome again now (woo hoo) - we have been in air BnB's or holiday lodges for the last 4 weeks, again at additional cost, so i am now flat broke Ho Hum.

Well, that lasted all of a week. We have done an additional 300 miles from Cumbria, up to Scotland then down to Shrewsbury and the engine light has come back on at least 6 times with P0238, P0401 and P0402 errors again along with limp mode. The work carrier out by the garage has not worked so it looks like its the LP EGR valve.

There is also a large amount of soot on the exhaust again.

Unfortunately I have no more funds to get this fixed so am stuck for the moment with a semi functional motorhome. The finance company are involved and have contacted the broker and the dealership, so I am awaiting their feedback on the situation. I have requested an update via phone call sometime this week, but at this stage I don't know how this will play out. I do have an incling that the probems had been masked before we purchase the van and the dealer may well have been aware of it.

 

[Fredastaire]

@Mike D Halliday , it's unlikely to be the LP EGR itself, it will be the cooler that feeds the LP EGR. That will be blocked because of soot from a cracked DPF.
The only way to define what's wrong is to buy and use Multiecuscan loaded to a Windows laptop.
.
We can help but only once you have recorded live data from a Multiecuscan csv file.
.

 

[athoirs]

Well I managed to get 3500 miles round Spain with only two engine warnings ( no limp) with a P0401 but on return decided to have a go at replacing the LP EGR Cooler myself. Well after two days work I have to say that the removal of the DPF

defeated me. It was only two bolts on the bracket attached to the side of the DPF to chassis - but they are so inaccessible that I just can't get to them. Every thing else was fine, but without removing engine mounts and dropping the engine, I can't see how I can get to them and get them off.

 

[Fredastaire]

Have you removed the subframe and detached the steering rack fixings (leaving it still hydraulic connected). My garage has just done mine for a second time. Much swearing and cursing.

 

[athoirs]

Have you removed the subframe and detached the steering rack fixings (leaving it still hydraulic connected). My garage has just done mine for a second time. Much swearing and cursing.

Yip- all done - only just dropped the subframe as Sillystu84 did. Bottom access is fine it’s getting to the top dpf bracket that’s the problem. I seem to have a different bracket and possibly a different DPF that’s shown on the photo further up this page. The bracket on that is black with two bolts while mine is plated with one bolt.

 

[athoirs]

DPF from below

 

[Sillystu84]

View attachment 454999DPF from below

If I remember rightly there’s two bolts holding bracket on engine and two bolts holding bracket to dpf, it was a pig to do but I used a small ratchet and took the bolts out of the dpf side

 

[Sillystu84]

Well as said before I did all that work for the head gasket to go two weeks later,,, so guess what I’m going this weekend ?

Yep the head and if I knew this was going to fail I would of done same time as turbo,egr, dpf replacement because is so much easier taking the head off and then access to all the other parts are easy

 

[athoirs]

Wow! hats off.Thats a major operation.

 

[Fredastaire]

@Sillystu84 what's the engine conditions like inside. Pistons, valves, inlet manifold etc? What the van mileage?
I rather think we take our hats off to you.

 

[Sillystu84]

@Sillystu84 what's the engine conditions like inside. Pistons, valves, inlet manifold etc? What the van mileage?
I rather think we take our hats off to you.

Hi m8 top of pistons just a little dirty but nothing major, I’ll have a look at cylinder wall on the two that are down tomorrow to determine if walls are ok. The valves and inlet side are pretty clean to be honest the van has done 170,000 and has had a hard life as a recovery truck, I’ll get some more pics