Technical Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next

[theoneandonly]

@Fredastaire one of purposes of the temp sensor is to control the temperature of the charge going into the combustion chamber, too high a temperature produces NOx. The whole idea of Lpegr is to reduce NOx. The lpegr cooler temperature of working engines is typicaly in range 80-140C.max 150 with one example seen upto 160C. Please dont ask me to explain the chemistry.
With some reactions the oxidation state is dependent on the temperature of reaction. The temperature also influences reaction rate and certain reactions wont occur bellow a certain temperature. The aim is to oxidise the Carbon and Hydrogen first. In a perfect combustion with a perfect stochiometric ratio of fuel to air we would get waste products of carbon dioxide and water H2O an Nitrogen. Diesel combustion is rediculouly complex because its a mixture of 50 (at least) components, the simplest explanation of 6 components stretched my little grey cells and even if i thought i understood it i wont be taking any exams soon.

 

[Mike D Halliday]

@Mike D Halliday @aln1337
I'm sorry your in this prediciment and yes its rediculous that Fiat hasnt at least written some sensinsible diagnostic reports on this problem. I Find it rediculous (on another forum) that it was stated I know more about this problem than Fiat, totaly rediculous but I am prepared to talk about it. The collective certainly knows more than most Fiat Professional garages.
Mike I would take legal advice as to whether the van can be returned as to being fit for purpose as almost immeadeately the warrenty company identified a big bill.

Ducato twin EGR Engine with P0401 Code (2016 to 2019)

This does not refer to earlier single EGR systems or to later AdBlu SCR engines. Note this is a guide and not definative. It is up to you to make decissions. It is the result of my investigations of data from many contributors and discussion with...

www.fiatforum.com

Mike you need to identify if the exhaust is clean or sooty.
The easiest way to identify a blocked lpegr cooler (p0401 lpegr cooler syndrome) is to take live data from a 20min run (warm engine) and post results here. i will the create some graphs and analize your data. The best way to do this is with multiecuscan on a windows laptop (forget any ideas of apple or chromebook).
sorry must stop now i'm henpecked and must go shopping

The Fiat Professional garage has had the van almost 2 weeks now and still cannot find the issue. They are saying its looking like turbo failure, but need to do more diagnostics before quoting for a fix. The exhaust is sooty before the EML comes on, and when cleared there is virtually no soot. When I drove to the garage last week, the EML came on with the same 2 codes, but no limp mode, so I was able to get to the garage without a reset (That would help them diagnose I thought). I need to ring them in the morning to see what is going on as we were due the MOT done on 24th September (Which has now passed and it would have failed) and we are up to Scotland in a few weeks for a rally!

 

[theoneandonly]

@Mike D Halliday Which Fiat Pro dealer is this?
get your van back and we need to do our own diagnostics.

What software/ hardware do i need to read OBD2 Codes

This a much bigger question than first appears. If we limit it to what is a cost effective DIY solution to "read my Fiat and simple maintenance issues eg change the oil in my euro 6 or add a new MAF sensor" then the answer for me reduces to...

www.fiatforum.com

Gendan Automotive Products :: MultiECUScan Package Chooser

I have asked 2 members in wigan and cheshire to see if they could help with the hardware needed.
If we had the freeze frame data I could be more sure but would really like to see the live data.
I am really surprised they are going dow the Turbo route they really dont know whats going on.
Pick it up first to do the diagnosis and after wards pass onto them this Fiat Doccument.

 

[Mike D Halliday]

@Mike D Halliday Which Fiat Pro dealer is this?
get your van back and we need to do our own diagnostics.

What software/ hardware do i need to read OBD2 Codes

This a much bigger question than first appears. If we limit it to what is a cost effective DIY solution to "read my Fiat and simple maintenance issues eg change the oil in my euro 6 or add a new MAF sensor" then the answer for me reduces to...

www.fiatforum.com

Gendan Automotive Products :: MultiECUScan Package Chooser

I have asked 2 members in wigan and cheshire to see if they could help with the hardware needed.
If we had the freeze frame data I could be more sure but would really like to see the live data.
I am really surprised they are going dow the Turbo route they really dont know whats going on.
Pick it up first to do the diagnosis and after wards pass onto them this Fiat Doccument.

This is Fiat Professional Deeside

 

[Mike D Halliday]

This is Fiat Professional Deeside

To be honest, they said that the software update was not needed. Now to me that says either the software is already at that version, or they are unwilling to perform the update unless instructed to do so by Fiat.

I will forward this document to them tomorrow when I ring them for an update. If it is only the software that is causing my issues, I will not be paying for the diagnostic cost as I asked them to do the update in August when I had the belts changed.

 

[Fredastaire]

@Mike D Halliday please trust the comments of @theoneandonly and get the van back. A full run with Multiecuscan capturing live data will reveal all.
I'm 99.99% certain our members will identify what parts are faulty. Remember I started this whole post and have been though the complete saga.

 

[theoneandonly]

To be honest, they said that the software update was not needed. Now to me that says either the software is already at that version, or they are unwilling to perform the update unless instructed to do so by Fiat.

I will forward this document to them tomorrow when I ring them for an update. If it is only the software that is causing my issues, I will not be paying for the diagnostic cost as I asked them to do the update in August when I had the belts changed.

The software is not the only thing causing your issues. Do you know the service history in terms of how many times if any has it been serviced by Fiat pro. Until you have the data do not let them know you have the service news. Take a kitchen roll and wipe the exhaust pipe is it clean or sooty.

 

[Mike D Halliday]

The software is not the only thing causing your issues. Do you know the service history in terms of how many times if any has it been serviced by Fiat pro. Until you have the data do not let them know you have the service news. Take a kitchen roll and wipe the exhaust pipe is it clean or sooty.

So, this is the problem, There are stamps in the service book from 2020 onwards, but no documentation to back them up. I have contacted the dealer to ask, but have had no reply, so I am being ignored there! The only documentation I have is a habitation check from when I collected the van, last years MOT cert and the recent 5Year service that I paid for. I cannot collect the van and drive it anywhere at the moment as it does not have a valid MOT (The Fiat Pro garage were going to do the MOT once they sorted the engine) and we have no where to store the van if we did bring it back. When I drove the van to the garage, the exhaust was a bit sooty (Dry black powder) but not what I would say was excessive. Will get an update from the garage today and see what they have discovered.

 

[theoneandonly]

So, this is the problem, There are stamps in the service book from 2020 onwards, but no documentation to back them up. I have contacted the dealer to ask, but have had no reply, so I am being ignored there! The only documentation I have is a habitation check from when I collected the van, last years MOT cert and the recent 5Year service that I paid for. I cannot collect the van and drive it anywhere at the moment as it does not have a valid MOT (The Fiat Pro garage were going to do the MOT once they sorted the engine) and we have no where to store the van if we did bring it back. When I drove the van to the garage, the exhaust was a bit sooty (Dry black powder) but not what I would say was excessive. Will get an update from the garage today and see what they have discovered.

Will be interesting what they say about a sooty exhaust, it supposed to be squeeky clean as mine is.

 

[Mike D Halliday]

Will be interesting what they say about a sooty exhaust, it supposed to be squeeky clean as mine is.

Spoke to the garage. After almost 2 weeks with the van, they are definately/maybe sure its the Turbo, but can't even do the work. They do not have a big enough ramp to be able to lift the van and drop the engine! They could have told me this before they took it off me!!! Apart from being angry and p*ssed off with Fiat engines, I am now scrambling around trying to find a garage with the capacity and ability to carry out the work. The motor industry is broken! It does mean that any garage that takes this on will want to do another diagnostic before doing any work (More expense). I have found a garage in birmingham that could fit me in during the next 2 weeks, but they are not sure if they can deal with the warranty company, so I have now instigated a complaint with the finance company about the moho not being fit for purpose. Citizens advice informed me that because I have finance on the van, the finance company are the first point of contact to complain to and not the dealer. So, it begins, we go round and round until someone gets bored and gives up! I bloody hope not!!! I guess I will update progress here as to what outcome i get.

 

[theoneandonly]

Sorry to hear about the continuing farce. Did you show them the service notes or not. Is it possible to get garage MOT it in its current state

 

[Mike D Halliday]

Sorry to hear about the continuing farce. Did you show them the service notes or not. Is it possible to get garage MOT it in its current state

No, i did not show them or send it to them. I did give them the service bulletin number so they may look it up, they may not. Still waiting to hear from the second garage as to whether they can deal with the warranty company. Nothing is ever easy!!!

 

[DucatoMJ180Finland]

Greetings from Finland. We bought Ducato Multijet 180 2017 Euro 6 Comformatic, 4 years ago and we have been using it without problems until last Friday. Mileage now about 93 000 km. Car started to have lack of power just after cold starts and "Check Engine" light lit. After short driving or motor running power comes back and we can drive without problem, but after a bit longer parking problem comes back. Today I went to local repair shop to read out failures and got following error codes: 487-74 (EGR valve position tracking - actuator slipping, 409-14 (EGR Position sensor, electrical test - circuit short to ground or open) and 101-21 (Air mass flow meter drift - signal amplitude < minimum). They did not have time to analyze more and we agreed that I will follow situation and later on they will check again. Later today afternoon I started the engine again and same problem occurred and check engine lit up again. I let the car run for awhile until it run stable, then I started the engine three times and "check engine" turned off. I started to read about this problem and found this topic. Is there something I should know or do? I wonder if our car I facing same problem than you all or is this something else?

 

[aschoots]

Greetings from Finland. We bought Ducato Multijet 180 2017 Euro 6, 4 years ago and we have been using it without problems until last Friday. Mileage now about 93 000 km. Car started to have lack of power just after cold starts and "Check Engine" light lit. After short driving or motor running power comes back and we can drive without problem, but after a bit longer parking problem comes back. Today I went to local repair shop to read out failures and got following error codes: 487-74 (EGR valve position tracking - actuator slipping, 409-14 (EGR Position sensor, electrical test - circuit short to ground or open) and 101-21 (Air mass flow meter drift - signal amplitude < minimum). They did not have time to analyze more and we agreed that I will follow situation and later on they will check again. Later today afternoon I started the engine again and same problem occurred and check engine lit up again. I let the car run for awhile until it run stable, then I started the engine three times and "check engine" turned off. I started to read about this problem and found this topic. Is there something I should know or do? I wonder if our car I facing same problem than you all or is this something else?

Hi "Finland", Welcome to the 'twin EGR FIAT trouble club'.
The best path forward in my view is to obtain a copy of MultiEcuscan and a cable, so you can log the operation of the system. In the guides section there is a tutorial how to do this: https://www.fiatforum.com/guides/tu...-parameter-id-and-save-data-for-analysis.874/
When you have recorded data, post it here, and a review / analysis wil -probably- help indicate the root cause of your van's problems.
cheers, Alex

 

[theoneandonly]

@DucatoMJ180Finland When you get Multiecuscan sorted template 4 is the first to run 10 min warm up then 20 min (if possible) at about 60mph then as aschoots says post here. Is it the same problem as this thread, currently i dont know the live data and graphs tell us a lot more than the error codes. Ive re- read your post and i will do a specific test template for you as there are counter sugesstions in my head. We may need 2 runs. Yes it may be something different.
I feel that it is vital for owners to collectively take an interest in others problems as it is far too obvious that Fiat dealers dont all have our interests at heart, you have come to the right place, help us to help you.

 

[theoneandonly]

@DucatoMJ180Finland

a template aimed at HPEGR as well as LPEGR

 

[DucatoMJ180Finland]

Thanks for fast replies @aschoots and @theoneandonly . I do not have suitable interface available at the moment and I checked recommended interfaces from multiecuscan page and it seem my local stores do not have suitable ones available. I should order it from abroad. I neither have windows computer available as I'm using Mac and iPhone. Perhaps I can arrange some windows laptop if needed. Any recommendations?

 

[MSjoberg]

Thanks for fast replies @aschoots and @theoneandonly . I do not have suitable interface available at the moment and I checked recommended interfaces from multiecuscan page and it seem my local stores do not have suitable ones available. I should order it from abroad. I neither have windows computer available as I'm using Mac and iPhone. Perhaps I can arrange some windows laptop if needed. Any recommendations?

MES demands on the PCs performance are low. It even runs my old WinXP minilaptop.

Regarding interface and adapter, I suppose a supplier within EU could be an advantage for you. I bought mine from https://electronic-fuchs.de/en

 

[DucatoMJ180Finland]

I would like to use BT module interface and keep it available for all platforms. Would be handy to check codes by phone when on the road.

I found following one from electronic.fuchs . Would that do the trick?

Bluetooth Stardiag Interface CAN327 (CANBUS) - Electronic-Fuchs

"Bluetooth Stardiag Interface CAN327 (CANBUS) – wireless diagnostic interface for seamless CANBUS vehicle analysis and troubleshooting."

electronic-fuchs.de

 

[aschoots]

I would like to use BT module interface and keep it available for all platforms. Would be handy to check codes by phone when on the road.

I found following one from electronic.fuchs . Would that do the trick?

Bluetooth Stardiag Interface CAN327 (CANBUS) - Electronic-Fuchs

"Bluetooth Stardiag Interface CAN327 (CANBUS) – wireless diagnostic interface for seamless CANBUS vehicle analysis and troubleshooting."

electronic-fuchs.de

I am not sure, as far as I know bluetooth has a lower bandwidth / bitrate than an USB module. To have a sufficiently detailed (resolution / scanrate) of the CAN signals that are to be logged, I have always used an USB interface.