Technical Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next

[theGman]

@theGman with a clean exhaust it's highly unlikely that you have a duff DPF. What is the van mileage, what is the replacement engine mileage? .
Back to basics I recommend an intensive viewing of the intercooler hoses and the intercooler itself, take the air cleaner cap off and check the air filter for rodent nesting. Check the turbo solenoid plastic vacuum pipes.
.
If all ok I would next go for a run with MES running live data and watch the LP EGR opening requested / actual. Downhill foot off it should be closed, foot dowñ it should re-open. On the run you should see it fluctuating between say 2mm and 3.9mm to show it is varying itself to suit engine demand, the LP EGR temperature should equally vary between 60 ish closed and 100 +-10 as you drive. This indicates a clear enough cooler. If you see it either closed or 4.7 open (ie fluctuating between closed or fully open), then the cooler looks blocked.
.
If this proves ok then no hesitation change the turbo solenoid and MAP sensor, cost circa £100 and a little diy work.

@theGman with a clean exhaust it's highly unlikely that you have a duff DPF. What is the van mileage, what is the replacement engine mileage? .
Back to basics I recommend an intensive viewing of the intercooler hoses and the intercooler itself, take the air cleaner cap off and check the air filter for rodent nesting. Check the turbo solenoid plastic vacuum pipes.
.
If all ok I would next go for a run with MES running live data and watch the LP EGR opening requested / actual. Downhill foot off it should be closed, foot dowñ it should re-open. On the run you should see it fluctuating between say 2mm and 3.9mm to show it is varying itself to suit engine demand, the LP EGR temperature should equally vary between 60 ish closed and 100 +-10 as you drive. This indicates a clear enough cooler. If you see it either closed or 4.7 open (ie fluctuating between closed or fully open), then the cooler looks blocked.
.
If this proves ok then no hesitation change the turbo solenoid and MAP sensor, cost circa £100 and a little diy work.

Hi @Fredastaire , the engine, turbo and all injectors were replaced December 2021 due to engine failure, “insufficient oil pressure” then seized. In our last trip the engine went into limp mode, told Fiat Professional garage that the AA recovery scanned ecu and had errors 0236 & 0238. They replaced the MAP sensor in August but said there was another issue and had to contact Fiat Italy. An hour later I got a call saying van ready to collect. Then last week van back into limp mode with P0238 error. The replacement engine was supplied by Fiat Italy and has done about 10k miles now.

 

[Fredastaire]

@theGman so what is the total van mileage?

 

[theoneandonly]

By engine replaced do you mean refurbished or toaly new. Is anything covered by a warenty.
YOu have the most recent software version

Freeze frame data
If you connect to van and get to F3 errors the information should all be there unless you cleared the errors. Its good practice to take a screenshot of freeze frame data of each error before clearing.

 

[theGman]

@theGman with a clean exhaust it's highly unlikely that you have a duff DPF. What is the van mileage, what is the replacement engine mileage? .
Back to basics I recommend an intensive viewing of the intercooler hoses and the intercooler itself, take the air cleaner cap off and check the air filter for rodent nesting. Check the turbo solenoid plastic vacuum pipes.
.
If all ok I would next go for a run with MES running live data and watch the LP EGR opening requested / actual. Downhill foot off it should be closed, foot dowñ it should re-open. On the run you should see it fluctuating between say 2mm and 3.9mm to show it is varying itself to suit engine demand, the LP EGR temperature should equally vary between 60 ish closed and 100 +-10 as you drive. This indicates a clear enough cooler. If you see it either closed or 4.7 open (ie fluctuating between closed or fully open), then the cooler looks blocked.
.
If this proves ok then no hesitation change the turbo solenoid and MAP sensor, cost circa £100 and a little diy work.

if you dont use the ini file i sent then attached are 3 template screen shots sent in 2 parts a,b
2 is specificaly aimed at the injectors
5 general
7 sensors

t2a
View attachment 429775
t2b
View attachment 429776
t7a
View attachment 429779
t7bView attachment 429780
t5aView attachment 429784

t5bView attachment 429785

PS FREDASTAIRES ref to wiping out the exhaust pipe is very important.

By engine replaced do you mean refurbished or toaly new. Is anything covered by a warenty.
YOu have the most recent software version

Freeze frame data
If you connect to van and get to F3 errors the information should all be there unless you cleared the errors. Its good practice to take a screenshot of freeze frame data of each error before clearing.

The engine was new from Italy, the injectors were reconditioned and supplied by Fiat, I have a warranty until December 2023

 

[theoneandonly]

The engine was new from Italy, the injectors were reconditioned and supplied by Fiat, I have a warranty until December 2023

Another member @Baz in Kent also had repeat problems with recon injectors from a Fiat refurb. Be prepared to tell them about the excessive injector variation and only accept new ones this time.
If you have now used my ini file use template 9 and do a screen shot. Or run a graph for 10s to get a csv file
Its a screen of slow moving variables like injector codes software changes number of regens etc

 

[Fredastaire]

@theGman , I've been talking with @theoneandonly this morning about my problems, his injectors and your problems.
Your codes deal with manifold pressures both high and low, I suggest that you also should be looking at the intercooler for silting up with carbon sludge, easy to remove and wash out with petrol. Also as mentioned to change that turbo solenoid (they begin to give trouble/ wear out/ fail at circa 24k miles) and to fully inspect all the intercooler pipes. Hopefully your problems are not as bad as mine, (my exhaust is sooty).
Can I ask again what the van mileage is (not the new engine miles)

 

[theGman]

@theGman with a clean exhaust it's highly unlikely that you have a duff DPF. What is the van mileage, what is the replacement engine mileage? .
Back to basics I recommend an intensive viewing of the intercooler hoses and the intercooler itself, take the air cleaner cap off and check the air filter for rodent nesting. Check the turbo solenoid plastic vacuum pipes.
.
If all ok I would next go for a run with MES running live data and watch the LP EGR opening requested / actual. Downhill foot off it should be closed, foot dowñ it should re-open. On the run you should see it fluctuating between say 2mm and 3.9mm to show it is varying itself to suit engine demand, the LP EGR temperature should equally vary between 60 ish closed and 100 +-10 as you drive. This indicates a clear enough cooler. If you see it either closed or 4.7 open (ie fluctuating between closed or fully open), then the cooler looks blocked.
.
If this proves ok then no hesitation change the turbo solenoid and MAP sensor, cost circa £100 and a little diy work.

if you dont use the ini file i sent then attached are 3 template screen shots sent in 2 parts a,b
2 is specificaly aimed at the injectors
5 general
7 sensors

t2a
View attachment 429775
t2b
View attachment 429776
t7a
View attachment 429779
t7bView attachment 429780
t5aView attachment 429784

t5bView attachment 429785

PS FREDASTAIRES ref to wiping out the exhaust pipe is very important.

@theGman , I've been talking with @theoneandonly this morning about my problems, his injectors and your problems.
Your codes deal with manifold pressures both high and low, I suggest that you also should be looking at the intercooler for silting up with carbon sludge, easy to remove and wash out with petrol. Also as mentioned to change that turbo solenoid (they begin to give trouble/ wear out/ fail at circa 24k miles) and to fully inspect all the intercooler pipes. Hopefully your problems are not as bad as mine, (my exhaust is sooty).
Can I ask again what the van mileage is (not the new engine miles)

The van miles are @37k, last year we done 47 days touring Europe and covered @5k miles. Not a single problem

 

[theGman]

The van miles are @37k, last year we done 47 days touring Europe and covered @5k miles. Not a single problem

 

[theGman]

@theGman , I've been talking with @theoneandonly this morning about my problems, his injectors and your problems.
Your codes deal with manifold pressures both high and low, I suggest that you also should be looking at the intercooler for silting up with carbon sludge, easy to remove and wash out with petrol. Also as mentioned to change that turbo solenoid (they begin to give trouble/ wear out/ fail at circa 24k miles) and to fully inspect all the intercooler pipes. Hopefully your problems are not as bad as mine, (my exhaust is sooty).
Can I ask again what the van mileage is (not the new engine miles)

The van went into garage this morning, there was a problem with temperature sensor in the mirror, so the technician said that would be problem. So got mirror replaced. At my cost. His logic was the ecu wasn’t getting correct info on air temp so injectors were compensating incorrectly. I took van out for a drive with MES connected. After 10 miles back into limp mode with same two errors P0236 & 0238. So drove straight back to garage. They said they’ll need to investigate. I told them I’m not happy as two components now changed and faults still there. At my expense too. So now a waiting game to see their diagnosis.

 

[Fredastaire]

@theGman , ouch! Sorry to hear that info. At minimum you need to take possession of your removed mirror. (Or their technician perhaps will sell on ebay)

 

[theoneandonly]

We also need to see the differential pressure info.
As a minimum template5 then 7 and 4.
This will see if the mirror has any effect dpf sensor is important.
With further info about the lpegr and the chat with @Fredastaire i am doubtfull that its a 401 issue the dpf info will be useful and show if the mirror sensor has been a issue for a while.
Have you noticed the outside temperature recently or has it shown "--------"

 

[theGman]

We also need to see the differential pressure info.
As a minimum template5 then 7 and 4.
This will see if the mirror has any effect dpf sensor is important.
With further info about the lpegr and the chat with @Fredastaire i am doubtfull that its a 401 issue the dpf info will be useful and show if the mirror sensor has been a issue for a while.
Have you noticed the outside temperature recently or has it shown "--------"

Recently the outside temperature would show- - - or a very high temperature e.g 82˚C

 

[theoneandonly]

Well at least that was correct.

 

[jansla]

Hello,
Thanks everyone posting in this thread, I’ve learned a lot!

The kitchen towel test in my exhaust pipe showing black sooty deposits is pointing toward dpf crack, isn’t it? At the same time differential pressure at idle is rather low, about 10mbar. My thinking is that differential pressure may not be able to detect cracks in dpf as cracks lead to unrestricted flow of exhaust gases thus low difference between pressure before and after dpf. Even if the filter is loaded with soot everything passes easily through the crack. So no difference in pressure in idle. Am I right? or is there some other way to detect damage/crack in dpf? While driving at 60-90 km/h differential pressure is about 100 up to 200mbar. Is it saying anything about dpf damage/crack?

 

[theGman]

We also need to see the differential pressure info.
As a minimum template5 then 7 and 4.
This will see if the mirror has any effect dpf sensor is important.
With further info about the lpegr and the chat with @Fredastaire i am doubtfull that its a 401 issue the dpf info will be useful and show if the mirror sensor has been a issue for a while.
Have you noticed the outside temperature recently or has it shown "--------"

The annoying thing is I asked my local garage about outside temperature sensor affecting anything else. He said “ “no , if it doesn’t bother you leave it until you are selling van”

 

[theoneandonly]

The annoying thing is I asked my local garage about outside temperature sensor affecting anything else. He said “ “no , if it doesn’t bother you leave it until you are selling van”

So many people dont understand how important this sensor has now become.before x290 it was probly used for nothing other than displaying th3e outside temp. Sorry to annoy you but the sensor is available on ebay for less than a tenner. There seems to be only 2 values of thermistor used so to cover hundreds of different cars they dont come with any connectors.
There are other temperature sensor used in the MAF and MAP.. The MAF is the air intake temperature AIT sensor temp. Why they used a sensor in such a vunerable position is beyond me.

 

[Fredastaire]

@theGman may I ask if you have any progress with your van at the dealers workshop?

 

[theGman]

@theGman may I ask if you have any progress with your van at the dealers workshop?

The van is in the garage just now , took it back in on Thursday after the replaced the mirror. Back in to limp mode. Now they are saying injectors need replaced. I showed them my scans before they done the mirror. So need to wait until they source injectors. Hopefully get an update on Monday.

 

[theGman]

The van is in the garage just now , took it back in on Thursday after the replaced the mirror. Back in to limp mode. Now they are saying injectors need replaced. I showed them my scans before they done the mirror. So need to wait until they source injectors. Hopefully get an update on Monday.

@Fredastaire & @theoneandonly I've just been reviewing the mes scan from after the mirror/sensor was and isolated all the parameters except injector corrections and turbo boost. From what I can see the corrections are more sporadic just before limp mode. Is this a possible cause of limp mode or a coincidence?

 

[Fredastaire]

@theoneandonly can you answer this? I cannot