Technical KriTip's 1.2 16V Sei Project

[cc1]

The ECU just managers fueling and ignition and will most likely have to be calibrated to your sensors.
The thing you will lose is imobiliser and maybe the odd warning light but this depends on the ECU as some have good feature like the option for turbo control and warnig outs etc.
It still might be worth investigating installing the original 16V ECU but you may have to alter your intake arrangement.
The ECU part of tuning is always the worst dilema.
If you can get the car to run, get it to the remap place and remaped for £400then no more mods, It's worth considering as long as the map doesn't need adjusting again, but can the tuners guarantee this?

 

[fingers99]

If you can get the car to run, get it to the remap place and remaped for £400then no more mods, It's worth considering as long as the map doesn't need adjusting again, but can the tuners guarantee this?

Why should the map need adjusting again (unless further tuning has been carried out)?

 

[cc1]

Why should the map need adjusting again (unless further tuning has been carried out)?

If it's live remaped then all should be ok, but running on rollers is very different to the real world of road driving.

 

[fingers99]

If it's live remaped then all should be ok, but running on rollers is very different to the real world of road driving.

Well, not very different. Way less different than running on an engine dyno, for example.

 

[fingers99]

/EDIT - What I'm still not getting as I may be an idiot, is that these ECU manage injection, ignition etc. replacing most of the current cars ecu. However what I don't get is DO you still have to retain the current ecu to manage other things, or do you just remove them.

Stuff like signalling, horns, lights, etc. Are they not managed by the current ECU at all allowing removal or, do you have to keep the current ECU for basic features?

It's actually a pretty intellingent question.

You will loose the immobiliser. Budget for something like a Toad in the (near) future. There's a guy recommended on CC who fits 'em for £200.

There may be issues with power steering (if you have it). Asteris posted what looks like a way round for this very recently.

The fan on MPIs is controlled by the ECU. Most aftermarket ECUs have the same facility (certainly the Emerald does).

Otherwise, you're in the clear.

 

[cc1]

Well, not very different. Way less different than running on an engine dyno, for example.

You must drive like me then!

 

[fingers99]

You must drive like me then!

Too many comments on my driving on this forum already!

 

[davethetrike]

Really confused. Why not use a 16v ecu?
What did I miss?

 

[cc1]

Really confused. Why not use a 16v ecu?
What did I miss?

Different wiring including connectors to Ecu, Different throttle body etc.
Might be a better idea as the throttle body is bigger. Not shure about the injectors.

 

[davethetrike]

Different wiring including connectors to Ecu, Different throttle body etc.
Might be a better idea as the throttle body is bigger. Not shure about the injectors.

The cognitive pain of sorting some hard wiring must be better than the financial pain of £800? and then sorting the wiring?

Sorry, playing devils advocate here .

 

[StoneNewt]

The cognitive pain of sorting some hard wiring must be better than the financial pain of £800? and then sorting the wiring?

There will be a difference mating up a general purpose & properly documented loom with existing sensors and sorting out a cut to length loom with the ECU connector on the wrong side of the engine bay.

Plus with the stock 16v ECU route you've got to find the ECU/code box, loom & lock set from a source you trust (we're talking security issues here) or get the ECU & loom then have the ECU decoded. Either way you're talking a fair amount of money and if you go with the FIAT ECU route you'll lose out on future expansion ability.

 

[randomizered]

OK, updates first Progress not half as quick as I'd like but that's due to laziness more than anything else

I had the fw back, lightened and balanced, he said a face regrind was pointless and just to clean the old crap of with wet and dry. I have sprayed it since I got it to prevent corrosion and make it look nice while its out of the engine.

Like a fool I forgot a before and after shot, and never weighed it either! doh!

Here it is anyway

Not show in this shot but 5 springs vs 3 on OEM clutch:


A fair bit taken from the edge and the balancing marks:


Went a fair bit out the back as well:


Overall he said he took as much as he felt was safe to do so, so thats fine with me

Slightly ground valve and seat, just to clean it up a bit, pleanty more still to do :


The underside of the head cleaned up a bit:


New seals going on:


Attempt to clean up the exterior, went terrible, lots of much was hard to remove, now its all scratched, and the polishing kit is either s**t or I'm not using it right



May end up spraying it lol.


The mk1 fuel rail:


Apparently this is returnable, but I'm unsure which is the return at the moment, will have to compare it to the Sei one, and just blank of whichever is the return line.


Kristian

 

[randomizered]

The issue of the ECU scenario

No worries about being devils advocate dave ... at the end of the day, if I stick with the 1.1, use a 1.2, or aftermarket, it would be wise to have it mapped, as even the i.2 ecu will not be optimal with induction, different performance exhaust etc. So a map is in the pipeline at least once no matter what. After that I'll save the map and play myself like cc1 mentions and may see improvments again. I would not do anything to wild though as I wouldn't want to kill it.

Sticking with the 1.1 ECU is the easiest option, and thatnks to JR and cc1, I may be able to borrow some equipment to copy JR's map, which would be a good move for the 1.1 ECU.

If I went for a 1.2 ECU, I'd need to either:

a) Have the ECU, code box and keys, and swap the key chips and everything over

b) have the ecu decoded by www.codeman.org for £55, which would then join up with my current code box and keys.

either way, it will need some looms sorting out and some additional wiring.

The other option is the after market. Sure its more expensive that 1.2 ECU and a lot of hassle and/or decoding, but will be many times more flexible! It also offers lots of logging and data analysis, and can be moved to futre cars, so may last many years.




I do have a TOAD at the moment, self fitted so immobiliser is no problem, however i DO have power steering I will have to see have Asteris has done to sort his out


I'm still undecided which route to take yet. Meeting up with JR may persuade me to go the 1.1 route, but if I get to see Emma's 1.4 at some point I may be persuaded to go the after market route.

The 1.2 is the least likly I will go for now.


Hope everyone is enjoying the progress so far


Kristian

 

[davethetrike]

Should help,


Third time I've seen this question come up so here's a pic for all to see

 

[J.R Racing]

Well it was all a matter of various things, a. keep the engine bay nice and tidy and as nature intended e.g. ecu on proper brackets, tidy looms etc., very happy with the tidyness of my job, you wouldn't really know it wasn't factory fit imo.

b. budget the whole ecu remap/reprogram only cost me less than half price at £200. The job took half a day to complete (arrived at 1 left at 7). I will also be going back for adjustments (no problem).

It works a treat baring in mind the amount still yet to do, it has a random multiple cylinder misfire, the wrong exhuast (will be sorted in may) along with s/s manifold, and no post cat lambda connected which is messing the pre cat lambda about, e.g. on diagnostic software the other night was guessing like no mans business the fuelling values etc as it had no post cat lambda to determine the rates.

If its purely budget were talking about this is heads up above the rest and i see no problems with it, performance wise (misfire permitting) it goes like stink so I don't see any improvements in that area either.

I think people are wary as it has not been done in this way much before and the only real tried tested way people think the setup will work properly is through punto 16v ecu or standalone, I can assure you this is not the only solution.

If you want diagnostics buy an obd2 lead to usb, download the freeware and you have live data from your laptop (as we did the other night).

Someone will probably come back with a smart remark, but if it works a treat on my car, I don't understand the problems. I'm not a mechanic and the ecu gives enough readings for me to keep check on things.

BTW good job on the flywheel, I can never remember what the original weight of the flywheel is! i think its roughly 7kg,that should be below 6 possibly.

 

[Sporty_5_Seicento]

When I weighed my flywheel it was 6.81 Kg and after lightening it weighed about 4.90 Kg. Looks like I may have had a bit more off than that but not much. Its not how much but from where you take the wieght off. The more you take from the outside the greater the effect becuase the more the turning moment is reduced. Although i remember another member weighing a flywheel and they said there one weighed 6.5 Kg so maybe theres some difference or just in-accurate scales.

 

[Sporty_5_Seicento]

Forgot to say, thats looking good dude!

 

[randomizered]

6 valves reground/smoothed, only 10 to go :bang: not the most interesting thing in the world.....plus I made a mistake.....

The picture of the new seals above, are on fine, but I forgot to fit the spring seats, the seals are trashed when removed, so i have to go find/buy 4 more from somewhere (posted in classified )

I plan to have the other 10 done by tomorrow night, ready for the head going back on, this weekend as long as seals are done.


One thing I'm a little worried about is, my gf's father tried to help cleaning the head a bit, and wet+dry'd the gasket off, on the alloy head. I'm worried that the finish may be too smooth!? Anyone know if it will be to smooth, and other than skimming, how to achieve a good surface?

Dave Walker's "Engine Management" has been an interesting read as well


I have done some more looking into the power steering issue. Earlier Sei's had one system that had no intergration with the ECU. 2000 onwards have a single connection with the ECU, but it doesn't say what for

I may disable that connection on mine and see what happens lol....however, although it details the schematic for the newer system, there is no amendment to the wiring or connector diagrams!!! So I have no clues as to which connector or wire I'm looking for......stupid fiat manuals! lol

Another issue i can see form an after market ECU is the mileage...mine has a digital clock driven by the ECU. If i remove the ECU I loose my mileage and any ability to record further mileage! IS that legal?




Kristian

 

[fingers99]

Another issue i can see form an after market ECU is the mileage...mine has a digital clock driven by the ECU. If i remove the ECU I loose my mileage and any ability to record further mileage! IS that legal?

I don't think the mileage matters. But you'll also lose the speedo which is certainly illegal. Speed is from the same sensor which gives the input for the power steering. See if you can dig out Asteris' post on this.

 

[randomizered]

THIS one?

He does mention that may give 12V at 35mph, so IF I can find the cable/connector I can stick a multimeter on it to test.

However this cable is not attached to anything else so looks to be independent of the speedo wire, and if the ECU is gone, this doesn't help anyway does it?

Wonder what Emma/Aaron are doing about these issues, as they have the mpi Sei as well, with Emerald ECU.

Kristian