Technical KriTip's 1.2 16V Sei Project

[J.R Racing]

I'm sorry I have not been clear on my so called remap on my sei 16v conversion.

It was not technically a remap. But a complete new map and system.

To my knowlege Jason from chipped uk got in contact with one of his partners (a map writer from Germany). The guy in Germnay then completely wrote a new map (specific to my car baring in mind all mods etc) as well as loading all the other data such as sensors etc off the punto 16v ecu onto my 1108 ecu so to speak.

The new map and system from germany was loaded onto the car. (nothing of the old system remained).

This may not be 100% accurate people who are more experienced mapping could give a more precise answer i'm sure, basically it was not a 'remap' but more of a new map to my knowlege.

It should have cost around £400 for this facility, I paid half thanks to mates rates

All I can say about it is car drives ace and I didn't shell out any unnecessary cash!

 

[custard]

thats a remap then,okay a bit more bespoke but stiull a remap as it really odesnt matter the values as any unchanged/changed relate to the complete map

 

[GhostWKD]

bit that confused me was how the batch injection ecu could run a sequential injection engine however i do not know much about it so have not got too inquisitive with this as i may not be aware of something regarding that

 

[StoneNewt]

There is no mechanical reason for the 1.2 16v to be MPi let alone SMPi, you could turn the engine into an SPi unit, for what reason escapes me but it's possible. What makes the engine SPi, MPi or SMPi is the ECU & the intake manifold

 

[randomizered]

Indeedy, and if its MPi, SMpi wil use the same manifold and will just be ECU related I believe.

Was the 16V SMpi anyway? Maybe that would explain the different connector on the Coil.


@cc1, sounds intereseting. I'll PM you in a day or two

@JR, so it was a modified map, but wasn't set up on RR at all? You just did power runs after and before?

For £400 at Chipped UK, I'm sure I could get it done on a RR somewhere, just depends who will touch the ECU with that engine in it.

My idea was what cc1 was mentioning I think. I was thinking that the parameter from the 1.2 16V could just be put onto the 1.1 ECU, and it would work the same.

I wonder if burning the chip with a generic 1.2 16V ecu would in effect give me something identical to a 1.2 16V ecu, or if it would all go pear shaped lol.

Kristian

 

[cc1]

I wonder if burning the chip with a generic 1.2 16V ecu would in effect give me something identical to a 1.2 16V ecu, or if it would all go pear shaped lol.

Kristian[/QUOTE]

You can't just throw any map into any ECU as the data is stored at different memory locations and the program won't find the information required to run.
You need to find the tables within the file from the 16v ECU and copy this data into the tables of the MF59 ECU.
The problem is: Finding the software that can decifer the program in an ECU.
The advantage with an aftermarket ECU is it will come with this software so you can change the parameters yourself as required.

 

[randomizered]

I meant can I replace the entire chip contents, not just the map parameters, with that of the 1.2? I'm sure there won't be much physically different between the chip sizes. I have no idea if its possible though, and if it was would not be do-able over the odb I suspect.

I have started to research after market ECU's as well and the main contenders seem to be:

DTA S40

Emerald ECU

Omex 600

KMS Engine Managment

All these are in the 500-600 ish range and seem to offer similar features. But knowing which is the best for my application is hard.

The KMS seems to offer at good feature set at the lowest price. The DTA and Omex seem to be very highly specified but also highest priced, and the emerald seems a mid way alternative.

Any ideas or other suggestion anyone?

Also how long does a typical RR take in hours?



To really upset me richcinq now has a 1368cc up for sale :bang: I have inquired about cost, but no reply yet. Not sure if I can justify the cost, but well have to see


Also I pick up the balanced, lightened and reground fw tonight and hopefully the new clutch, so expect some pics of that soon

Kristian

 

[fingers99]

Any of those aftermarket ECUs (or the Emerald) should do the job fine. There are also some pre-built Megasquirts on eBay.

I think Emerald recon about 2 hours of RR. If the Emma/Aaron/Jon project keeps going at the same pace, Emerald should have a fair bit of knowledge of the 16 valve fire engines within the next 2 or 3 weeks! :slayer:

To be honest, I don't see why you don't source and fit a 16 valve Punto 1241 ECU. It'll be by far the cheapest and easiest option.

 

[randomizered]

Well, I picked up the flywheel from jonspeedracing, and they had a lovely mini supercharger kit there so i splashed out and bought it


...nottttt (borat style)


However I had a chat with the guy and he said they mapping and setup there. He said for a full mapping it'll be £250, and once the engine is in to bring it along and see what they can do with my current ECU otherwise they can map aftermarket ECU's as well . As its so close to me (4 miles) its a brilliant find and should save me some hassle


Why do you say "or the emerald"? is there something different about it? Just a project as well?



Picked up the clutch kit as well. I'll post pics over the weekend and make sure it all fits together ok

Kristian

 

[fingers99]

Why do you say "or the emerald"? is there something different about it? Just a project as well?

Nah -- I misread your post and thought you'd left them out. Emerald is fully built, just like Omex, et al.

 

[ChinqSporting]

If your looking at going aftermarket engine management do a bit of research into MoTeC, work out pritty cheep from america with exchange rate atm and majority of RR's dont mind touching them, there not that hard to install either, took me 2days to install one on a porsche 3.0l 968 turbo and that has loads of conectors.

Goodluck
Mark

 

[randomizered]

MoTec was ruled out pretty much straight away due to cost....but i never thought of the strong pound, so will have a ganders at cost if needed Good plan!

Kristian

 

[cc1]

It's a pitty JR doesn't live closer as I could have downloaded his map for you.

When you buy an aftermarket ECU, They should supply a base map for it and then you can modify it yourself.
If you stick with the MF59 then you will always be reliant on someone else to do a remap. At £250 a pop then it will soon work out more expensive than something like the Emerald if you intend to keep modding.
I believe the Emerald just uses a USB cable without an interpreting device between so connection between pc is easy.

 

[randomizered]

So you'd recommend just changing the map yourself on an after market ecu from a basic base map? not bothering with a RR at all

The £250 was RR on the standard ECU, OR after market ECU.

I agree I could change the after market parameters myself easily, but do you think it would be wise? I guess I can learn a lot by the data logging most of them offer, and see any major problems that arise?!

Kristian

 

[cc1]

The software that comes with the ECU is the thing that sould help decide which ECU to go for.
Some of the software offers 3D map viewing etc.
The perameters which need to be changed are shown within a table. All you do is enter a new number ( only a small increment at a time) and so on in each box, save the file, uplode new file, go play.
If it's not good then change perameters slightly until you get the optimum performance. Takes time but eventually you will get the perfect map.

 

[J333EVO]

Yikes MoTeC, the favoured choice for integrale owners, but very expensive to buy, supposed to be very easy to use and be all in excellent. Its cheaper to map an after market ECU cos its easier and takes less time as that's what they are made for.

http://www.motec.com.au/uk.htm
http://www.autronic.com/index.html
http://www.dtafast.co.uk/index.shtml
http://www.enginemanagementsystem.com/
http://www.haltech.com/index.htm
http://www.s8ecu.co.uk/
http://www.emeraldm3d.com/em_m3dk.html
http://www.omextechnology.co.uk/Ecus/ecus.htm

 

[randomizered]

Nice set of links, good too see I had found 4

Haltech is too much money. Autronic looks very nice Fully sequential injection for 8 injectors! Bet that is a bit pricy as well though for that feature! Can't find a UK price list.

s8ecu page is not runnig at present, under construction.


/EDIT - What I'm still not getting as I may be an idiot, is that these ECU manage injection, ignition etc. replacing most of the current cars ecu. However what I don't get is DO you still have to retain the current ecu to manage other things, or do you just remove them.

Stuff like signalling, horns, lights, etc. Are they not managed by the current ECU at all allowing removal or, do you have to keep the current ECU for basic features?

Sorry for such a dumb question, but i need it in laymans terms

Kristian

 

[cc1]

If you have a £17000 Skyline, then paying £1000 for RR an live remapping wont seem too bad, but when you've got a car with all mods that's worth maybe £2000 then £1000 on remaps will make you pause for thought!

 

[randomizered]

What I really need is a multi map selectable ECU

Emissions Map (MOT time)
Daily map (safe but good)
Custom map (tuned by myself, learning as I go, but not to be trusted )

Kristian

 

[J333EVO]

What I really need is a multi map selectable ECU

Emissions Map (MOT time)
Daily map (safe but good)
Custom map (tuned by myself, learning as I go, but not to be trusted )

Kristian

New Emerald has that feature, being able to run multimaps, I had a brochure for it but thrown it out, not sure if website updated, its only £30 more than normal/older model.