I didn't say that, I was directly responding to a statement about SUVs where that's indeed where batteries are typically packaged. Current gen batteries are physically significantly smaller so one can't simply say 'bigger solely because battery'
General Here it is, officially the new Panda
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General Here it is, officially the new Panda
Perhaps instead of ‘solely’ I should have said, ‘primary’ reason for getting bigger.
Other than that it’s all downsides. Higher cost to make. To buy. Bigger wheels / brakes (higher running costs). More energy to get moving. Poorer handling / cornering from height for most of em. Most of them less comfortable and practical too.
Other than the floor… where else are the batteries going?
Ask our colleague who expressed concern as to the efficacy of a statement I wasn't making, not me please.
OP
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The argument for cars getting bigger for batteries is just plane not correct when you consider all the little microcar/quadracycles entering the market with many of them running on electricity and sporting batteries.
Most of the new stellantis cars use the space previously occupied by the fuel tank and some of the wheel well they are not making the cars bigger to take bigger batteries.
What is very obvious between the tiny microcars and the “normal” cars is that the normal ones have to pass stringent safety tests and regulations.
The microcars don’t, they are very basic made of a flimsy steel frame and light weight plastic panels usually.
I think it goes without a doubt safety is the driving factor in cars getting bigger. The anti EV people will come up with anything they can to blame “ev’s” for it.
Oddly enough our white over green with the wrong engine and gearbox, missing air bumps was a factory special order.
None turbo is dead, from what I've seen base will be 100bhp turbo, with 151lb/ft torque with a DSG auto and 20bhp hybrid boost. No option of a manual mentioned in the Panda though the C3 offers a 6 speed without hybrid.
The irony of it being the base model panda with it's combined 120bhp and turbo+hybrid is going to be the fastest panda ever made including the HP.
The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
Thats the rub. You are of course right about the direction and driver of the size. But it doesnt mean we have to agree or like it.. The EU needs to take a lead and force the ICE prodution to get lighter and much muchmore economical. Limit em]ngines to 1000 cc and make anything that cant do 65mpg illegal, That ought to do the trick. Make the bigger cars go electric or hybrid with similar economy and it would move the market and make remaining ICE cars properly efficient while promoting a mix of fuels with a hugely better balance. They could probably insist on 75mpg and it would still work. The increasing size is as you say economics, but it shouldnt have to be. The truth is you cannot do great speed on the road due to congestion, even if it were legal to do so and size is not a major requirement for a lot of buyers. Its most likely that I will have the Panda converted to electricity when the mechanicals give up, assuming thats what causes its demise.
I was organising our Seats funeral today. The breakers man was saying he asked the EA inspector what the rules, procedures and requiremetns are / will be for the disposal and recycling of batteries from EV's. Last week apparently the answer was there are none, and, I dont know. There is some requirement to be able to immerse the EVs entirely in a water tank in the event of fire. so to get a tank installed if you want to accept them. He further added that teh big Lion batteries need to be allowed to degrade for 20 years to allow them to reach a safe state for dismantling / recycling. They needless to say will not accept EVC's for storage, scrapping or recycling under any circumstances. He said they have done 3. 1st battery cost them £60 to recycle, the 2nd cost £150 and the last £300. As far as he could tell there are now no EV recyclers in the area. Allowing he was telling it more or less straight thats a shocking state of affairs with most EV battereis being apparently rated for an 8 year minimum life and most not expected to do more than 10 years. He reckons the number of approaches for recycling EVs is begining to increase very rapidly in addition to request from the police to collect and remove them after accidents.
This uncertainty makes the idea of buying a second hand EV for local use, and thats half my driving, is just too big a rsk as I dont want to get left with no chair at the end of the game, and being stung for the end of life cost on top of buying the thing in the first place. Its going to be a few more years until the situation becomes clear. As I said this morning, I feel a horse and cart coming on. Anyone know someone who can write a horse sharing deal contract?
On the funeral front, the garage in Southamptom thats supplying my daughters Panda wanted £300 to take the Seat. Locally I will get $150 or £100 plus a spare wheel and jack kit with me keeping the battery which is like quite a few other bits, nearly new. I think they will sort the crankase valve (PCV?) and the windscreen and the old girl will be sold on again. I really hope not as its had its day in truth. I think the cash will be enough to buy a decent tyre for the spare wheel, and a tank of fuel when I drop Panda and collect the Seat on Sunday. Then all I have to do is nurse the old car back for recycling, running that dry at the same time. I have to admit I am tempted to give it back to the Seat garage in Norwich as per the last page of the cars handbook. I'd bet money they wouldnt know what to do with it and would try and wriggle out of their commitment. Lucky for them £150 is in my view a decent offer and a more attractive prospect.
The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
Tesla model x.
The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
Topolino...
A car from the 1930's to 50's, worth having. or an abomination from today that should be banned on the grounds of its totally offensive appearance and nature. I think I would sooner put castors and a gearbox in our washing machine and use that. It is certainly better looking.
A car from the 1930's to 50's, worth having. or an abomination from today that should be banned on the grounds of its totally offensive appearance and nature. I think I would sooner put castors and a gearbox in our washing machine and use that. It is certainly better looking.
All Tesla do, and some others. Pretty sure part of the reason is lower centre of gravity too.
VW already built a car like that… three actually! Although I don’t know if I’d say it looks better than a Topolino mind you
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Not fully, the Nissan/Renault hybrid is a good system, and non-turbo. A combined 143bhp is more than enough for day to day use - and so smooth compared to a small turbo engine
Specifically...the none turbo puretech as used by PSA is dead. It will not be fitted to any new models.
I.e. the engine PB was referring to.
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The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
yep may be one to consider. Not yet thoVW already built a car like that… three actually! Although I don’t know if I’d say it looks better than a Topolino mind you
You can't buy one... literally.
They stopped selling them years ago, you can have a Polo though...which is significantly larger than the new Panda but I seem to recall you were looking for Jaguars so small enough.
At this point unless you want to buy a Toyota Aygo X or a Hyundai I10 or Dacia Spring perhaps everything is bigger than the new Panda.
The new MG is positively ginormous... actually bigger than a Jeep Avenger when a tape measure is used.
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It was dead even when running properly. Kept checking the handbrake, every hundered yards or so. Made the Panda, with aircon running, feel lively.
The 3 cylinder natural / non turbo 1.0 we had in a modern 208 was dreadful also. Totally dead then when the vibration and rumble and noise of the three cylinder sped up to all it could give the slightest lift off of the accelerator jerked the car. Dreadful thing.
The Panda 1.2, and the replacement Mazda 2 1.6 both feel incredibly refined and smooth and consistent across their power output than that.
Then there was the terminal oil leaking from the early years… which is why I weep for the future of PureTech Fiat’s.
The turbos, while I don’t doubt better to drive, had even more problems going by the DS3 groups where minimal issues about the diesels were discussed and constant issues with the turbo 1.2s
What can I say..
Well I suppose if you to base your opinion of a car entirely on the technical sections of this forum you'd get the impression all Fiats are broken all the time.
Simply because no one ever posts "today my car is fine, please help".
Also Google PSA DV6 common issues for fun with "reliable" diesels. Of course since 2017 PSA small petrols have outsold diesels about 10 to 1 in small cars so even if both fail at a 1% rate there's 10x as many failed petrols.
Well I suppose if you to base your opinion of a car entirely on the technical sections of this forum you'd get the impression all Fiats are broken all the time.
Simply because no one ever posts "today my car is fine, please help".
Also Google PSA DV6 common issues for fun with "reliable" diesels. Of course since 2017 PSA small petrols have outsold diesels about 10 to 1 in small cars so even if both fail at a 1% rate there's 10x as many failed petrols.
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I'd just like to say, today, my car is fine. It was also fine yesterday, and even better the day before.
If in 3 days it's got noticeably worse that represents a worrying rate of decline. 
But yes, strangely I've not joined a C3 forum and started a new thread 2518 times with "today the car worked and has no oil leaks and has burned no oil, also my timing belt is just fine thanks."
In terms of percentages it's likely twinair/mulitair failures are more common but because the numbers of those sold are in the hundreds of thousands not the millions you're less likely to get people making noise about it.
But yes, strangely I've not joined a C3 forum and started a new thread 2518 times with "today the car worked and has no oil leaks and has burned no oil, also my timing belt is just fine thanks."
In terms of percentages it's likely twinair/mulitair failures are more common but because the numbers of those sold are in the hundreds of thousands not the millions you're less likely to get people making noise about it.
other than the odd turbo failure, not much goes wrong with them, and the turbo is right at the front with easy access
However the DV10 is far superior in every way
