General All new Pandina.

[AnthonyH]

I'm not sure - but I am extremely against the CCP and its tactics... be it human rights, freedom of information or enterprise. We all play a factor in 'supporting' it with our love of cheap, usually plastic tat, certainly. But in my view, I wouldn't care if they had twice the innovation of a Tesla at half the price, they cross so many lines in how they treat their people, their neighbouring countries and their whole political ideology. Now I know, we all get into heated debates but you can very much separate out all things EU / US / UK from our companies which are often at odds with our governments. There simply is no company that exists without ties to the CCP in China - and it's extremely sad because it's an amazing country / part of the world with so much talent and culture under that oppression. This is why I'm so against supporting it more than we 'have to'.

I don't blame the western nations and other nations from putting up protection barriers economically to stop this. They quite literally will flood the market with an abundance of cheap tat cars, only unlike the £19.99 made in china kettle you can get from Argos that lasts.. a year and a half maybe, then can be recycled when it becomes e-waste, cars just sit around taking up a lot of space on streets and driveways and it's not so clear how recyclable they are. We can't even get chargers with our new £1,000 phones made by western and other free nations companies because we're told it's too irresponsible to the planet! But there is no regard for the planet with the CCP. They have no regard for life, wellbeing, the planet, competitive spirit etc. They will gut all of our car industries and the problem is, given the chance, the average consumer will do it.

Look at the risks of TikTok, and people don't care because it satiates them in the moment. It's like a can of Coca-Cola, except, whether or not its form of 'obesity' can be seen or felt is much less obvious than the obese people you see and judge mentally everyday and don't want to become. People are ignorant sometimes and vote poorly with their wallet and attention.

Look at the amount of cars China has copied over the years from EU car makers, even our beloved Panda, the 'Great Wall Peri' which they actually had the audacity to say Fiat were spying on them to produce the 2003 Panda... they don't even have the decency to come clean, or make up a believable excuse. That's how seriously they take us. Why should we allow them to enter our market and destroy it. It's not like they have any quality products or innovation. They just sell at a lower price, afforded by the fact they have no environmental or worker safety and quite literally champion slave labour to make it all balance financially.

When a company wants my money, it's greedy. But that's fine. I'll give them my money if they give me enough of what I want, in a way that I can afford, that won't kill me or others. When a company is willing to go broke, put out of business my other choices as a consumer and is controlled / owned by the CCP ... and it wants my attention and money and to be in my life... that's worse. Far, far worse. immeasurably worse. MG is the perfect case in point, go test drive on of their knock-off BMW X series / Mazda / Mercedes grilled monstrosities. Whilst on the surface it's cheap, looks.. familiar, and is kitted out with all sorts a test drive in one and you'll hear.. feel and be unable to deny what utter trash they are producing. It's actually quite sad metal is being taken from the ground to be wasted on those things. And the roads are flooded with them... Owned by a state sponsored (CCP) controlling interest, the same one behind the knock off Panda, and knock off Evoque that already had rust bubbles under the paint at a car show where they displayed it. And yet, our companies - especially Land Rover - doing everything they can to compete in their market... sickening.

Rant over! lol

If it were just about EV disruption, well, people with more money than me are voting on that one. Of course people will buy anything to try them and EVs have their advantages. They are certainly sold with some big claims about how good they are for us all. Yet to see any credible evidence that they are outside of big city air quality issues. We read biased car media coverage paid for by eco activist groups that act like it's a good thing, that they're here to stay etc... but then, nobody I know (very few people mind you) who bought one (mostly as company cars at a huge discount or free to them) seem to want another one after the initial year with them. That'll be the real test. For less than my beat up, old , bad condition overpriced Lexus CT .. I could have gotten an under two year old Corsa Elite, with electric powertrain, every bell and whistle, less mileage and I think.. massage seats if it's new enough.. For around £12k I'm sure I seen one. If my DS3 and Avensis were anything to go by, a relatively low price used is usually for a reason - because less people want them and it can be hard to ignore when you own them. EVs seem to be going that way.

I've read! I struggle to reconcile the CCP with cheap Chinese produced goods. They really do operate slave labour camps and have awful human rights. I do buy cheap goods without thinking, but look at MG cars and think "no thanks". My general attitude is that one day their economy will catch up to that of Europeans and then to continue to prosper they'll need to innovate themselves and treat their people properly, or their economy will stagnate. I doubt that'll happen in my lifetime and the worlds politicans seem to be getting madder by the year.

Back to EVs and I think they're being forced on people because petrol cars cause global warming. So i agree with the sentiment that global warming needs counteracting but think EVs are kind of rubbish at the moment, they're just too expensive, the range is too low et al. Maybe forcing EV cars onto people will force innovation in EVs to come quicker? Is that the idea? I'm going to sit out the EV car revolution as much as possible and wait until the range problem is fixed and they're cheaper.

 

[SB1500]

I've read! I struggle to reconcile the CCP with cheap Chinese produced goods. They really do operate slave labour camps and have awful human rights. I do buy cheap goods without thinking, but look at MG cars and think "no thanks". My general attitude is that one day their economy will catch up to that of Europeans and then to continue to prosper they'll need to innovate themselves and treat their people properly, or their economy will stagnate. I doubt that'll happen in my lifetime and the worlds politicans seem to be getting madder by the year.

Yeah, well as their average citizen is becoming wealthier and no longer needing to accept the sort of ‘live in factory’ job as much as the last 30 years, they’ve turned to working with developing African nations (whom are usually corrupt to the core with extreme wealth and devastating poverty for much of their populations). The CCP will set up drilling / mining and other industry to gain the countries natural resources and sure, gives them a big cut of the cash. But they’re essentially outsourcing the nasty, cheap dirty jobs that I suppose we, the west did to them from the 90s, to these nations now who are grateful for the money / stimulation but seemingly unaware of the power / control and devastation that the CCP will surely have for its existence and wellbeing long term. When corrupt meets evil I suppose. :-( not good. As much as it’s indirect to us, it’s our shared planet and we’re all human so in that sense, it feels crap even though we might have it good in the UK, to know what’s going on.

Back to EVs and I think they're being forced on people because petrol cars cause global warming. So i agree with the sentiment that global warming needs counteracting but think EVs are kind of rubbish at the moment, they're just too expensive, the range is too low et al. Maybe forcing EV cars onto people will force innovation in EVs to come quicker? Is that the idea? I'm going to sit out the EV car revolution as much as possible and wait until the range problem is fixed and they're cheaper.

The planet definitely should be cared for and climate change studied and given importance. But currently it’s like… you invest in all sorts of air conditioners and purifiers and plants first your home air quality. Only to have your neighbour (the CCP et al.) revving their 90s VW Passat diesel with the black suit in their driveway, being sucked right into your bedroom window. Because some nations don’t care. So regardless of what we do, our one shared planet suffers. It’s a shame.

For me, a member on here pointed out the practicalities of even a poor ‘200 mile’ range EV. Living in N. Ireland the biggest real drive you’d do is west to east. 70 miles or so each way. Even a long drive to Dublin, around 150 miles each way could comfortably be done with enough to spare. The range, even a bad range, isn’t the issue and that’s set to only get better.

My issue is… how long will the car be able to do that range? Secondly…. You can easily get 15 years from an engine car. Even if by 15, it’s hanging together. A glance on the road and you still see so many original Focus’ etc. hard to believe some of them are over 20 years old now! I can’t even get over what a ‘10 year old car’ is compared to what it is in my head. The precedent for how long a car lasts is set. How long will the EVs last?

Seems like we’re moving away from long lasting, serviceable cars in favour of disposable replaceable ones. That’d be fine if the costs weren’t doubling so often. A little like a fridge. Not built like in the past … to be serviceable and repairable. Simply buy cheap. It’s efficient. When it breaks, it’s so affordable you just recycle and buy a new one. Logically that’s fine… ‘we’ll invent a more efficient one by 10 years time so it’s a net good thing, and cheaper’. TVs went that way. Better. Cheaper. More efficient so your 2006 Plasma that only lasted five years didn’t last as long as your 1996 huge box masterpiece. But by 2012 your 1080p Asda TV used less juice and plugged into more things and was better quality. If cars were like that, then I’d be all for it.

instead they’re getting more expensive, more annoying, less repairable, less reliable, less powerful for emissions and more complex.

The peak must have been around 2010 before DPFs became a thing.

I suppose we shouldn’t be sad it’s gone. But grateful we lived through it

 

[AnthonyH]

Yeah, well as their average citizen is becoming wealthier and no longer needing to accept the sort of ‘live in factory’ job as much as the last 30 years, they’ve turned to working with developing African nations (whom are usually corrupt to the core with extreme wealth and devastating poverty for much of their populations). The CCP will set up drilling / mining and other industry to gain the countries natural resources and sure, gives them a big cut of the cash. But they’re essentially outsourcing the nasty, cheap dirty jobs that I suppose we, the west did to them from the 90s, to these nations now who are grateful for the money / stimulation but seemingly unaware of the power / control and devastation that the CCP will surely have for its existence and wellbeing long term. When corrupt meets evil I suppose. :-( not good. As much as it’s indirect to us, it’s our shared planet and we’re all human so in that sense, it feels crap even though we might have it good in the UK, to know what’s going on.


The planet definitely should be cared for and climate change studied and given importance. But currently it’s like… you invest in all sorts of air conditioners and purifiers and plants first your home air quality. Only to have your neighbour (the CCP et al.) revving their 90s VW Passat diesel with the black suit in their driveway, being sucked right into your bedroom window. Because some nations don’t care. So regardless of what we do, our one shared planet suffers. It’s a shame.

For me, a member on here pointed out the practicalities of even a poor ‘200 mile’ range EV. Living in N. Ireland the biggest real drive you’d do is west to east. 70 miles or so each way. Even a long drive to Dublin, around 150 miles each way could comfortably be done with enough to spare. The range, even a bad range, isn’t the issue and that’s set to only get better.

My issue is… how long will the car be able to do that range? Secondly…. You can easily get 15 years from an engine car. Even if by 15, it’s hanging together. A glance on the road and you still see so many original Focus’ etc. hard to believe some of them are over 20 years old now! I can’t even get over what a ‘10 year old car’ is compared to what it is in my head. The precedent for how long a car lasts is set. How long will the EVs last?

Seems like we’re moving away from long lasting, serviceable cars in favour of disposable replaceable ones. That’d be fine if the costs weren’t doubling so often. A little like a fridge. Not built like in the past … to be serviceable and repairable. Simply buy cheap. It’s efficient. When it breaks, it’s so affordable you just recycle and buy a new one. Logically that’s fine… ‘we’ll invent a more efficient one by 10 years time so it’s a net good thing, and cheaper’. TVs went that way. Better. Cheaper. More efficient so your 2006 Plasma that only lasted five years didn’t last as long as your 1996 huge box masterpiece. But by 2012 your 1080p Asda TV used less juice and plugged into more things and was better quality. If cars were like that, then I’d be all for it.

instead they’re getting more expensive, more annoying, less repairable, less reliable, less powerful for emissions and more complex.

The peak must have been around 2010 before DPFs became a thing.

I suppose we shouldn’t be sad it’s gone. But grateful we lived through it

Some thoughts as i read. Battery life is a problem, i don't know how long EV car batteries continue to hold charge but I know the average laptop battery is dead after about 4 years. If i recall correctly EV cars drop in value when their batteries need replacing.


Oh and China again, did you know that the last time i looked they were still building coal powered electricity stations at a furious rate? I agree that the UK was right to close its own coal powered electricity stations to reduce CO2 emissions, but that good work is being undone.

 

[SB1500]

Some thoughts as i read. Battery life is a problem, i don't know how long EV car batteries continue to hold charge but I know the average laptop battery is dead after about 4 years. If i recall correctly EV cars drop in value when their batteries need replacing.


Oh and China again, did you know that the last time i looked they were still building coal powered electricity stations at a furious rate? I agree that the UK was right to close its own coal powered electricity stations to reduce CO2 emissions, but that good work is being undone.

Yeah. Our efforts only go so far. It’s appalling that they can be part of all these international climate groups but nobody holds them to account. Same people telling you and me we need to pay huge tax on petrol and that the Germans had to close down half of their energy production… importing it in from Russia so that it doesn’t contribute to its ‘nasty bad for the environment actions’, which costs us more and now has them awfully quiet on the world stage… Whole thing is a scam. Climate misinformation is fast losing support that we could use.

Electric cars… get their fuel from fossil fuel stations. Enough said. They aren’t one bit better than burning it at the car itself really, environmentally speaking. And yet… you and me being forced to buy ‘em… not today. 2035.

Fiat’s 2019 Centoventi was a pretty cool concept. Now imagine removable hot swappable battery cells that can be improved over time… traded in, stocked up at petrol stations and kept charged so you can switch ‘em in minutes and keep going. Very, very cool solution. Avoids all that ‘stuck with an expensive shiny garden ornament’ should today’s batteries not hold up. But all the casing and logistics for that would never make sense unless the industry could come up with some kind of standardised, joint development battery design / development and supply. No chance of that, otherwise we’d have seen them collaborate on ‘the perfect engine’ I suppose by now.

Small and cheap doesn’t blend well with electric car. Fiat, like the rest of us, probably was waiting for all of the fad to pass. But tightening legislation from the EU, whom it can’t escape, quickly left it in a bad spot with not many good cards in hand. At least they seem to be able to produce a quirky and characterful car in the form of the new Grande model. I’m sad we don’t have the Pandina anymore in the UK, but happy it lives on in its natural habitat for another few years to come. Another big finger up to the NCAP trying to kill it in 2018 with the zero star rating… the people have spoken. They love the Panda.

 

[porta]

Some thoughts as i read. Battery life is a problem, i don't know how long EV car batteries continue to hold charge but I know the average laptop battery is dead after about 4 years. If i recall correctly EV cars drop in value when their batteries need replacing.


Oh and China again, did you know that the last time i looked they were still building coal powered electricity stations at a furious rate? I agree that the UK was right to close its own coal powered electricity stations to reduce CO2 emissions, but that good work is being undone.

The Chinese are fast becoming fossil free, but they aren’t averse to selling others the coal