General Here it is, officially the new Panda

[portland_bill]

Wonder if that's the benefit of 'reinforced' tyres. If so, maybe worth the money?

Reinforced is usually a thicker, stiffer sidewall, for heavier duty applications, like vans. It will make no difference to puncture resistance or susceptibility.
Some tread patterns are more susceptible to picking up objects, or holding small stones to give an annoying tick-tick as you drive. As the tyre wears, it is more susceptible to punctures. Having said that, my very first puncture was on a brand new tyre, after about 7 miles.

The innermost layer of tubeless tyres is a softer butyl rubber, that will try to seal small punctures. The object makes a small hole, and the hole in the rubber is smaller, so seals around the screw or nail. Leakage is slower, preventing a sudden complete failure. Screws are more common than nails, as the thread tends to grip inside the tread, so it can pick up on the first rotation, and get pushed in on the second. If when you park, it is sitting on it, you won't see it, and the air escape is too gentle to hear. If just a small screw, most punctures are repairable, but longer screws can bend inside, causing damage, rendering the tyre scrap.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

If I buy something that big it will surely be a Jag.

Jesus, how big do you think this new panda is?

In any case all cars are getting bigger all the time. They have to, to keep meeting safety/crash test standards. Not like cars of the 70s and 80s when the crumple zone was basically your legs and the "airbag" was your nose.

 

[SB1500]

New Fiat Grande Panda 2024 - pictures | Auto Express

Pictures of the new Fiat Grande Panda

www.autoexpress.co.uk

It does grow on me the more I look at it, I can get over the lack of 169 / 312 continuity in design I suppose, given (as extensively discussed) the links to the OG Panda's from the 80s. Haven't seen anything quite like those rear lights on a non-concept car. And I spotted the heated seat buttons there... I'll ignore that PSA part bin headlight dip switch though.

Fiat said they weren't building grey cars anymore, but is that brown colour really much better?! I only ever remember seeing the Ford Focus a decade ago in a similar brown. I suppose they could give it a coffee related name in the brochure and tick the Italian box..

Looking also at these close ups, the plastic used appears to be the same texture / rough and toughness as the outgoing Panda, which is a win to me. Only when I got the DS3 and subsequent cars did I realise what a nightmare shiny and smooth finishes are for scratches etc, that I appreciated both Panda's quality of rough and tough interior trim pieces.

I guess such a radical change shouldn't be such a shock, in ideal terms, we'd have had an all new FCA Panda around 2018 at latest if they operated like the competition, which might have been a step between the outgoing and something this radical.

I look forward to reading the owners first impressions on here when they come, particularly those of you who have had the original Panda.. the 169.. the 312 and now this and can offer a realistic view of the differences. Everything until now is all speculation, and the motoring press isn't much to go by

 

[StevenRB45]

Well I look at this like this.

It is the same size as my current car which is one of the smallest cars you can buy new.

It is available in decent colours, has a nice interior, reasonable performance and looks pretty good. The boot is very big for the size of the car at 361L which suggests the rear bench is further forward than the C3 which prioritises rear seat space.

Also if it follows the C3 in terms of equipment the top spec one will have heated seats, steering wheel and front window things I miss from my Mazda the old C3 just didn't have.

So it seems to be a nice thing to replace my now aging a bit C3 with...and bonus it would be my 4th Fiat if I bought one.

Also the new C3 looks bloody awful...the stance of the panda with the chunky look is so much better and it comes in better colours with a better interior.

 

[SB1500]

Also the new C3 looks bloody awful...the stance of the panda with the chunky look is so much better and it comes in better colours with a better interior.

Any luck convincing your other half to go for a new Panda to replace the C3?

It'll be interesting to see the direction of all of the group brands now going forward to remain unique to their own brand identities whilst sharing so much. FWIW, PSA have always done a better job at sharing platforms between Citroen and Peugeot than VAG and others. The DS3 and 208 were very different inside and out, it took me over a year of staring at the two and washing the two weekly that I started to spot the resemblance and proportions between them. The current 508 and 208 etc are going quite al long way in terms of fancy switches and unique parts to maintain the French stand out design goals of modern Peugeot as a brand... There's a green 308 that parks near me often and it definitely stands out from the crowd. I've got my skepticism still but I'm warming to 'the future' of Fiat.

The new Panda looks like it has short enough overhangs to someday bloom into a new generation 4x4... I think the older models took another year or so after launch to come out as 4x4s so we have to hold our breath for now on the 4x4 for this one. I just really hope it's not an electronic slip prevention traction sort of implementation that own't be very useful in Fifth Gear's inevitably future comparing it to a Land Rover segment.

 

[StevenRB45]

They've clearly moved Citroën out of the way to make room for Fiat.

This picture...

Well it seems a bit familiar in certain respects..

I actually really like this colour...they discontinued it 4 years ago in the C3.

Otherwise a slightly sharper handling and more funky looking version of it with a few more toys without going nuts is unlikely to be a bad car.

 

[vexorg]

I always prefer more vibrant colours on cars, the pastels and shades of grey are just so dull on the road.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

I had a metallic yellow S2000. Always covered in flies, both pre and post driving.

 

[StevenRB45]

I just like having the option of an actual colour.

The spectrum of black to white via gun metal grey is dull and predictable and pretty much all most manufacturers offer at this point...

So being able to go into a showroom and choose from some colours rather than a grey scale photo copy colour chart with a random red and navy blue on it would be an improvement.

 

[SB1500]

I anticipated this problem a few ago... Seen it with my own two eyes. Not just the colours, but the cars. A very poor photo fabrication job later... and we have one potential outcome on Fiat's vision to have more colourful cars. Knowing them, more stylish ones too. (this was probably posted by me on here circa 2019) ...can you tell I was the intern at the time?

 

[The Panda Nut]

Jesus, how big do you think this new panda is?

In any case all cars are getting bigger all the time. They have to, to keep meeting safety/crash test standards. Not like cars of the 70s and 80s when the crumple zone was basically your legs and the "airbag" was your nose.

No, they dont have to keep getting bigger. Frankly that line of thought is just nonsensical. Materials improvements alone mean the safety of a modern structure is way above what it was in the 60's when comments like 'your legs are the crumple zon'e might possibly have applied. Mr Clarksons TV retorick doesnt wash in the real word. It was designed solely for the purpose of entertainment. We do not need all cars being supposedly safe safe by gradully becoming the size of a planet.

Design effort should be put into environmentally improved transport. Smarter lighter and more economical. I see little of this in this thing. Pretty it might be but a sensible replacement for the Panda? That they will find out when the Panda buyers with a problem decide to stay or wheel their money somewhere else.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

It's possible but very expensive to build small cars with advanced crash protection. In the current environment where cars are getting ever bigger then it's unlikely to happen, I'd suggest.

 

[SB1500]

It's possible but very expensive to build small cars with advanced crash protection. In the current environment where cars are getting ever bigger then it's unlikely to happen, I'd suggest.

Sole reason they’re getting bigger is to accommodate EV batteries (heavy and bulky). The ‘SUV’ trend is so they can keep impractically low floors, stick the batteries beneath the cabin and heighten the roof to compensate so they can fit modern batteries in

 

[Bonefish Blues]

That's a bold statement to say 'sole reason' when batteries are relatively easy to package underfloor.

Anyhow, the point I was making, to repeat, is that it's disproportionately expensive to make a smaller car with an equivalent crash protection to a large car. Size matters.

 

[SB1500]

That's a bold statement to say 'sole reason' when batteries are relatively easy to package underfloor.

Anyhow, the point I was making, to repeat, is that it's disproportionately expensive to make a smaller car with an equivalent crash protection to a large car. Size matters.

Well they say it’s consumer choice, but they’re continually removing choices - not just poor sellers but just recently even Audi said they’d stop selling coupes, incredibly popular / high selling models over a long period of time. Of course demand is growing when it’s all manufacturers are offering… it’s like those articles “EV growth soars” - from what? Zero? Of course.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Well they say it’s consumer choice, but they’re continually removing choices - not just poor sellers but just recently even Audi said they’d stop selling coupes, incredibly popular / high selling models over a long period of time. Of course demand is growing when it’s all manufacturers are offering… it’s like those articles “EV growth soars” - from what? Zero? Of course.

Why quote my posts and then make completely disassociated points?

 

[SB1500]

Why quote my posts and then make completely disassociated points?

You said about cars getting bigger. In my estimation that’s the reason why. You said that’s not likely to be the sole reason (fair point) but from what I can see, it seems it. Wasn’t disagreeing or arguing - just saying.

I agree with your point that it’s probably too expensive to use the most cutting edge safety material technology on cars intended to come in at budget pricing

 

[portland_bill]

I just like having the option of an actual colour.

The spectrum of black to white via gun metal grey is dull and predictable and pretty much all most manufacturers offer at this point...

So being able to go into a showroom and choose from some colours rather than a grey scale photo copy colour chart with a random red and navy blue on it would be an improvement.

Dealers get stock on consignment, for a limited period, then they have to pay for them. They need to sell them before the consignment ends, so they only pay as they receive the customer's money. For this reason, they will only stock colours they know will sell. They will resist risk. The customer can order their choice of colour, and wait, ..... and wait, or have one from stock, which will be grey. This is why cars are predominantly grey, and why vans used to be always white. Years ago, when I was controlling stock at a large Rover dealer, you should have seen the panic on the sales manager's face when some colours arrived. I took a few risks, all got sold easily, but usually with a warning not to do it again.

No, they dont have to keep getting bigger.

Absolutely. Some increase in size was the result of crash protection, but we are past that now. We have adequate protection, even in 'small' cars. It is a sales tool, to advertise each new model as improved over its predecessor, which often relates to more interior space, achieved by making the outside enormous.
This is not new. The original Honda Accord was a small 3-door hatch, now it is a large saloon. My Fabia, a Polo in a cheap frock, is larger than the original Golf. Ford's Fiesta is about the same size as an early Focus, and the Mondeo the size of the old Granada.
I read somewhere, that the last Mondeo is about the same size as the Jaguar MkX, which sold poorly due it being too big.

That's a bold statement to say 'sole reason' when batteries are relatively easy to package underfloor.

You can't just package batteries under the floor. That would result in very poor ground clearance. So either the whole car gets lifted, or the inner floor rises. Lots of EVs have seats very low to the floor, putting rear seat passengers' knees under their chin. Not comfortable for more than a short journey.

 

[portland_bill]

Dynamically, the Panda will be a C3/208, so fine. Performance will be good with the turbocharged 1.2 3-cyl, but like all the other PSA stuff, the non-turbo is woeful.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

No, they dont have to keep getting bigger. Frankly that line of thought is just nonsensical. Materials improvements alone mean the safety of a modern structure is way above what it was in the 60's

You’re absolutely right with the improvements of car structure since the 60s but for the last 20 years or so there have been no massive material improvements in mainstream motoring it’s still the same steel, complex alloys = increased prices. So for the manufacturers it’s cheaper to make them bigger.

We do not need all cars being supposedly safe safe by gradully becoming the size of a planet.

If everyone else is making their cars stronger and bigger then everyone else has to up their game. That said this is still going to be one of the smallest cars in its class, so if you’re looking to buy a new car, you’ll be hard pressed to find much that is smaller.

Design effort should be put into environmentally improved transport. Smarter lighter and more economical. I see little of this in this thing. Pretty it might be but a sensible replacement for the Panda? That they will find out when the Panda buyers with a problem decide to stay or wheel their money somewhere else.

I think the main problem is that fiat have reached the end of their run with the current panda and people are just not buying them like they used to. They need to offer up something else and in Europe this car will likely sell very well.

If you want something cheap or small from the fiat stable then the topolino is going to be the only thing that fits your size requirements or one of the many other micro cars about, but you’ll not fit 4 people in one, and most don’t have a boot.