Technical EPS electric power steering faults

[RFollia]

Yes

Sounds like one corner is lazy and reading more than 6 km/h lower than the other three

If you can identify the correct corner you have already eliminated three quarters of the work

Thank you so much for the clarification. Don't know if my Ancell multiecu reader can do that. Otherwise will have ask for a loan. Best regards

 

[kavil]

Code will be stored if the light comes on

Will your scanner read the body module

Most scantool only access the engine module

What scanner are you using

Just off the shelf ELM 327 ODB II WIFI adapter. I am not sure if it reads the body module. It is just generic cheap scanner with basic functionality.

 

[RFollia]

thank you

 

[koalar]

Elm 327 would work but you need the right software

MultiECUscan would need a windows laptop and the paid full version

Delphi EPS and Bosch ABS would both need an additional adaptor

Free version of Alfascan on an android phone might work, never tried again you will also need the adaptor to read all the required modules

 

[RFollia]

Elm 327 would work but you need the right software

MultiECUscan would need a windows laptop and the paid full version

Delphi EPS and Bosch ABS would both need an additional adaptor

Free version of Alfascan on an android phone might work, never tried again you will also need the adaptor to read all the required modules

Thank you
I've been looking and did not find alfascan anywhere. did find alfa OBD though, which, if not free, it's not very expensive.
As for the ELM327 interface, I found the one sold by a german copany, called electronic-fuchs, which is not very expensive. The important thing would be knowing if the alfa obd can receive live data from all 4 wheels.
In case not, my ancell reader allows live data streaming, and particularly reads speed from the ECU. So I could use 4x axle stands, turn each wheel by hand and monitor the speed signal received by the ECU . In case of abysmal difference between corners that one would be the culprit. What do you think? As a 1st approach could be a possibility to see what's wrong. As MoT is looming in th horizon (dec'2024...)
Best regards

 

[koalar]

Thank you
I've been looking and did not find alfascan anywhere. did find alfa OBD though, which, if not free, it's not very expensive.
As for the ELM327 interface, I found the one sold by a german copany, called electronic-fuchs, which is not very expensive. The important thing would be knowing if the alfa obd can receive live data from all 4 wheels.
In case not, my ancell reader allows live data streaming, and particularly reads speed from the ECU. So I could use 4x axle stands, turn each wheel by hand and monitor the speed signal received by the ECU . In case of abysmal difference between corners that one would be the culprit. What do you think? As a 1st approach could be a possibility to see what's wrong. As MoT is looming in th horizon (dec'2024...)
Best regards

S


orry

It's alfaIBD Demo which is the free version

Says it's works


I only briefly connected to a few modules and read error codes

But it's not something I have played with that much as I own a multiplexer that can be set up as a flight recorder using a SD card, plus it takes a snapshot when an error occurs

If you can only read one sensor at a time it would be easier to drive at a certain speed and read the ABS sensors sequentially than putting it up on stands

 

[RFollia]

Hi all,
managed to perform test in a crude way an-think-found the culprit
-Selected "live stream data" in my cheapo OBDII reader
Raised each corner and turned each wheel by hand while SWMBO was behind the wheel looking at the screen
-REar wheels don't measure any speed. Thnik ABS sensors measure only wheel locking.
-Front wheels:
-Front left: No problem, steady measuring 4 km/h
-Front right: Problems. Measuring intermittent between 0 and 3 km/h. And with vehicle stationery wiggling ABS sensor wire made EPS light flicker. So right sensor bad. ORdered replacement. Will fit it as soon as it arrives and will report back.
Best regards and thanks for help
Robert
P.S. By the way, my local optician has a 2000's multipla JTD with 596,000 kms (nearly 350K miles!) on original engine and tranny...

 

[koalar]

Hi all,
managed to perform test in a crude way an-think-found the culprit
-Selected "live stream data" in my cheapo OBDII reader
Raised each corner and turned each wheel by hand while SWMBO was behind the wheel looking at the screen
-REar wheels don't measure any speed. Thnik ABS sensors measure only wheel locking.
-Front wheels:
-Front left: No problem, steady measuring 4 km/h
-Front right: Problems. Measuring intermittent between 0 and 3 km/h. And with vehicle stationery wiggling ABS sensor wire made EPS light flicker. So right sensor bad. ORdered replacement. Will fit it as soon as it arrives and will report back.
Best regards and thanks for help
Robert
P.S. By the way, my local optician has a 2000's multipla JTD with 596,000 kms (nearly 350K miles!) on original engine and tranny...

Sounds likely, finger crossed

I would have swap the sensors over

The fronts are identical

Fault should move with the sensor if it's the fault

 

[RFollia]

Thank you. Reember that EPS light went out (at least for seconds) when braking. Febi sensors (not bad) 25 euro postage included, so being 250.000 kms and 21 years old, they might be due for renewal.
Will notify with results as soon as I change them. Best regards

 

[RFollia]

Good evening everyone.
Update. Changed RH sensor (the one who read almost 50% less). The old sensor was covered in kinda gunk, but having everything off, decided to renew. Did not want to take out inner wheelarch 2 times. Also sprayed plenty of brake cleaner in the recess.
And... also decided to take a look at LH front sensor. Was also dirty. Cleaned with brake cleaner and a clean rag.
So. what's new? EPS no longer is locked or warning light lit. Flickers from time to time but EPS works!!!
Thank you so much for help and suggestions
Robert

 

[cnikonpete]

just to avoid confusion

the earth location for the electronic steering motor is here, directly on top of the battery negative connector.

no Good looking at them. They need unbolting and cleaning with a green scouring pad or similar.

I also smear with a bit of petroleum gel although not strictly needed

Just had my power steering fail completely,warning light on,extremely heavy steering. It went on a sweeping left hand bend,quite a shock! I will try the earth,assume the steering motor is accessed up near the pedals?
Think I may be forced to scrap car if it’s too expensive

 

[koalar]

Just had my power steering fail completely,warning light on,extremely heavy steering. It went on a sweeping left hand bend,quite a shock! I will try the earth,assume the steering motor is accessed up near the pedals?
Think I may be forced to scrap car if it’s too expensive

Rarely serious

Never seen a faulty motor 20 years

When you switch the engine on and off again does the warning light go off and the power steering come back

 

[Luisc]

Just had my power steering fail completely,warning light on,extremely heavy steering. It went on a sweeping left hand bend,quite a shock! I will try the earth,assume the steering motor is accessed up near the pedals?
Think I may be forced to scrap car if it’s too expensive

Could be the steering angle sensor , mine had that issue but had no symptoms other than the asr light and steering light occasionally

 

[cnikonpete]

Rarely serious

Never seen a faulty motor 20 years

When you switch the engine on and off again does the warning light go off and the power steering come back

After switching off then back on light comes on, goes off as normal, then after a couple of seconds comes back on.

 

[koalar]

Faulty torque sensor

Make sure the steering wheel is straight ahead before undoing anything

You might be able to rescue the situation but it will be hit or miss

 

[RFollia]

Hi all,
back again with inoperative EPS after the ABS sensor renewal
I think the fault is in another place
I noticed, prior to the "not definitive repair" that every time the red steering wheel light showed up and steering became stiff, if I braked, be it slightly or hard, the light extinguished.
I noticed that the battery strap was not tight but terminals were
Tightened battery strap. and since then... constant light and... no EPS except intermittently
Here is one previous post -excellent- from koalar in this same thread regarding the earth lead

just to avoid confusion

the earth location for the electronic steering motor is here, directly on top of the battery negative connector.

no Good looking at them. They need unbolting and cleaning with a green scouring pad or similar.

I also smear with a bit of petroleum gel although not strictly needed

In my case the battery negative connector does not appear to be neither healthy nor sound.
Could it be that with an untight battery strap, when braking, the flexing lead made correct contact and steering worked?
Yes, it's a matter of just unbolting, craping and tightening back.
But I fear breaking the connector or battery terminal as that nut looked as if it had been tightened by a gorilla with toothache

Is there is a safe way of undoing the earth connector not breaking the battery terminal???
.Then I would like to unbolt connector, clean, check continuity between that terminal and motor (can I do it not having to take the cluster or steering column apart?) and if all is well, reassemble, retighten and check.
If all is not well, then replace lead (could it be a failure of lead as it happened with front left headlight connector?) and then, after replaceing lead, if it still is wrong, go and shout out to the garage that billed me 400 euro+labour for remanufacturing EPS in a very bad way, as it's still under warranty
Best regards

 

[koalar]

Doesn't look like it will be too tight, it will probably, just undo

Worse case, unclamp it, hold the bottom with adjustable spanner to counter the rotation

 

[RFollia]

Doesn't look like it will be too tight, it will probably, just undo

Worse case, unclamp it, hold the bottom with adjustable spanner to counter the rotation

Thank you, tried some months ago but the complete terminal began to twist and I abandoned.
Have to look for a such big adjustable spanner (I mean deep). The best thing would be some jaws, but they are on the workbech.
Best regards

 

[RFollia]

I quote here my previous pic
View attachment 460473

Sorry for late reply.
Not having been able to undo the centre earth lead/wire to huge fuse/battery terminal due to not having found a pair of hands willing to help me by just holding the mole grips while I undid the centre nut.
Besides, it's been a nightmare month trying to keep the Range Rover Classic 300tdi on the road after diagnosing a lost front caliper bolt, leaking caliper pipe, failing master cylinder and rotten EGR pipes, all at once (these last 2 items obsolete)
But it did not stop me doing tests in the Panda
I guess, as Koalar said, everything else in ECU, motor and sensor should be OK. But there is something wrong, and I guess it's that earth wire/lead, which I guess might be breaking up internally.
Today, engine started, idling, stationary car with a constant red EPS light on, as usual, just wiggling the earthwire 2 inches from the earthing point in battery, and I mean a very slight wiggling, no more than 1 centimeter sideways, the EPS light went out.
Previously, when the battery nylon strap was not properly fastened, the EPS light flickered sometimes, and switched off while braking (another sign of earth lead breaking internally?). When the battery strap was properly tightened up, the EPS light became constantly on.

I will undo (when I find another willing to help pair of hands) and clean the earthing point contacts. And then, only then, if the fault persists (which I think it will persist), will look at replacing that earth wire/lead. Would be very grateful if someone could clarify the length and where that wire/lead goes, direct to EPS motor or somewhere else (fuse box, ECU),
Best regards and thank you
Robert

 

[koalar]

Today, engine started, idling, stationary car with a constant red EPS light on, as usual, just wiggling the earthwire 2 inches from the earthing point in battery, and I mean a very slight wiggling, no more than 1 centimeter sideways, the EPS light went out.

Well done,

At least you have confirmed the problem is within the engine bay not inside the car

There also an earth lead under the battery tray which is used as the reference ground for the alternator and is known to fail and cause charging issues