Technical EPS electric power steering faults

[RFollia]

Well, another one
panda 169 1,2 active
1 week ago alternator died, no lights except for battery charging.
Dropped the car into workshop. Alternator renewed (not by me as I was coming back from surgery and I am out of wrrenching for 2 months....)
300 euro later and red steering wheel light is on at all times and PAS does not work . If you switch it off with multiscan and restart engine it lights up after 2 seconds and remains lit.
The workshop claims the ECU has died and all connections have been checked. I think something has been disturbed during alternator renewal or the alternator is not the correct one
Engine running the vontage is 14,5V
If the mechanics erases the error with engine running the steering works perfectly for many cycles of turning lock to lock but once they restart, it's on again.
They want to exchange by a refurbished unit but honestly think the fault is somewhere else, but can't slid eunder the car until august (recovery time).
Best regards

 

[koalar]

Switch the ignition on

What lights warning light coming on on the dash

Crank the car

What warning lights are on while cranking but the engine not started

Or better still if possible post a short video

Do you have a multimeter, I guess so as you have given some measurements

 

[koalar]

Alarm bells are ringing in my head

As it will started with an alternator change

I had 3x panda and 1x Punto

At idle the are were all 14.2V, 14.5V sounds wrong but not wildly

If the start up sequence is wrong, the body computer will cut power to the EPS to preserve power

 

[jrkitching]

Alarm bells are ringing in my head

As it will started with an alternator change

Mine too.

If something goes wrong with a car shortly after you've had work done to it, the chances are it's something that was done, or something that was disturbed whilst doing it.

I think something has been disturbed during alternator renewal or the alternator is not the correct one

I think so too.

 

[RFollia]

Hi all,
update,
KOEO (Key on engine off) all lights lit up
Cranking. Steering wheel light on .
engine started steering wheel light switches off for a second and lights up again.
Problem car is at workshop (different from the one that did the water pump bodge) so can't hook up my code reader and they don't give me the codes.
They claim it's the eps module...
But these things don't fail catastrophically overnight, they warn before, and eps worked faultlessly even after during alternator failure.
best regards

 

[RFollia]

Mine too.

If something goes wrong with a car shortly after you've had work done to it, the chances are it's something that was done, or something that was disturbed whilst doing it.

I think so too.

I share your opinion.

 

[koalar]

Hi all,
update,
KOEO (Key on engine off) all lights lit up
Cranking. Steering wheel light on .
engine started steering wheel light switches off for a second and lights up again.
Problem car is at workshop (different from the one that did the water pump bodge) so can't hook up my code reader and they don't give me the codes.
They claim it's the eps module...
But these things don't fail catastrophically overnight, they warn before, and eps worked faultlessly even after during alternator failure.
best regards

Is the battery light and oil light on or off

 

[RFollia]

Engine off key on batt and oil light are on
As soon as engine starts both turn off

 

[koalar]

Engine off key on batt and oil light are on
As soon as engine starts both turn off

Sorry I meant while cranking

 

[RFollia]

Is the battery light and oil light on or off

Sorry I meant while cranking

Won't be able to test until monday, as it is still in workshop.
If both lights are on when cranking and then turn off as soon as engine starts all is well?
I wish I had had surgery much later as I could have dealt with the alternator issue myself and all these problems would not have happened
Best regards

 

[jrkitching]

I wish I had had surgery much later as I could have dealt with the alternator issue myself

Your own health is more important than your car's health. You fixed the right one first.

Very best wishes for a speedy recovery.

 

[RFollia]

Your own health is more important than your car's health. You fixed the right one first.

Very best wishes for a speedy recovery.

Thank you so much for your kind words. Everything broke down, Panda's alt, Range Rover 300Tdi clutch, photo camera.... all the same week...
Best regards

 

[koalar]

The battery and oil should stay on while cranking

If the battery out as soon as the key is turned the earth wire is at fault


The oil will eventually go out if there is prolonged cranking and oil pressure build but the battery should stay on until the rpm are over 750

 

[RFollia]

Thank you. Will report on monday. Have a good weekend

 

[RFollia]

Good evening to all.
Sorry for the delay as there was nobody to take me and stil am not allowed to drive.
Went today. Could not test as the battery was flat. Seems workshop has done many start-stops to drain the battery. But battery and oil lights were on while I cranked (faint as battery was flat).
Got the codes, C1003 and C1007. C1003 has nothing to do here, but C1007 yes. Motor failure.
I read all guides but am not sure if our steering unit has relays being a VIN no under 4000(1st week build )
Best regards

 

[koalar]

It's not how I read it

C1003 is critical to the operation of the steering as it proportional to the speed

Neither code point to a fault in the EPS unit

But codes are not 100% and can only take you so far

Codes are different from the Punto

 

[RFollia]

Thank you!
Maybe they disturbed a wheel speed sensor renewing alternator?
It's odd because with a stationary vehicle the EPS works and the sensor reads nothing, it's when the vehicle starts moing when the sensor transmits. Anyway the speedo did not stop working any time. It has ABS and ABS lights did not light up
But...if it can help, there are 2 more things:
-Before the EPS fault, as soon as the engine started one coud hear around the steering column a good "click", just one, which I suppose were the relays
-After the fault, no click can be heard or a very faint one. And when we left the car for the 2nd time, after the alternator swap, when the mechanic, engine running , cleared the fault codes and the EPS began working, just a very very faint click was heard.
Don't know if my EPS unit is the same as the 1st model from the 188 punto with 2 relays.
Today as I was driven to work as well I could stop by the workshop and get more data
Our panda is 1st build, Dyanmic with ABS, the VIN ends with 3688 it's from early-mid 2003, the sticker (part number from the steering column is 26093217)
The motor part number is 51708899 (listed as "fiat drawing number) and DELPHI s/n 26096709113 build date 26/07/2003 (earliest ones) and the DELPHI ECU (can't do yoga postures to get under steering wheel) incomplete part no is *99946 06A (the asterisk was an unreadable number, masked by a bracket, could be a 0)
In case it could be the relay, are they the same as the punto so I can order them through the evilbay shop link listed somewhere in the punto forum (I found it yesterday). I mean, the punto Relays were deleted in 2003, but don't know if it was beginning, mid or late 2003, so could be the case


Best regards and thank you
Robert

 

[koalar]

No relays in the Panda EPS as far as I know

There were 9 different ones fitted from 2003-2009

Left hand drive, 100HP and so on, I haven't been inside every one

But all. solid state as far as I know

You don't have any error code relating to the EPS

The problem only happend after the alternator was changed


"C" codes are model specific, what applies to a Punto doesn't mean it applies to the Panda


The screen shot above is from the fiat own workshop, technical bulletins, which is highly likely to be correct, unlike the internet where the Punto descriptions are copy and pasted into the panda


You can buy repair boards for the Punto motor, none are available to repair the Panda

 

[RFollia]

Thank you!
But with Fiat's parts bin, no one knows. Our panda has cable operated clutch, not hydraulic (maybe fiat 600 leftover parts?)
Best regards

 

[crossed up]

Just started having steering issues with my 05 Panda 4x4 (petrol).
Was all good, no issues.

On one journey steering failed (wife driving), switching off and on helped a bit, but by the end of the journey the EPS fails almost immediately.

Replaced battery - no change

Start, rev to ~2K steer lock to lock (on gravel, car stationary), EPS wants to turn right, within a few seconds steering goes heavy, no longer pulls right, steering fail message and warning light.

Is the sensor the likely culprit?