Are you loosing all power assist or is it just slightly heavy
When you return to stop does the steering go back light
When you return to stop does the steering go back light
First question... why was the original column changed?
Might be irrelevant, but they don't actually fail very often, although they do sometimes get changed out when the real problem(s) are elsewhere...
I may have missed out the word Exactly in my previous question... but I think we may be heading in the same direction.![]()
500 variable steering | FIAT 500 (2007+)
Hello all, I have an odd issue that I can't get to the bottom of. We have a 2010 lounge and had the power steering motor changed about 4 years ago due to intermittent loss of assistance. Ever since the new motor was fitted the assistance is great when stationary but as soon as you get above...www.fiatforum.com
sound like it had the "standard" intermittent lose of power assistance and had a replacement column
ever since the power assist is fine at low speed but stiffens up when travelling above a crawl
similar to these two
yes I know they are not Fiats but they have the same Delphi column
its a big jump to rack, but it quite logical for it to be a mechanical binding rather than a electrical fault. Be it the replacement column, fitting, rack, ball joint or so on.
can't think of an easy way to test , how easy something spins is subjective. I would jack the front up, with the steering lock off, I would push and pull on the wheel to move it from lock to lock. I have done this many time while working on the car and know what it should feel like. But can't convey in words a feeling.
I had an A Class. Stiff steering is very common on them due to the column universal joint going dry. Had to re-grease mine.
Hi , i am struggling with my abarth grande punto , can you give some ideas? So the car gives times to times asr unavailable and hill holder and very rare ocasions says to check the steering , is turn on and off usually solves it, the car does not ride everydays usually on weekends , battery 2 years old with some time sitting on not running, when i connected with mes i got the c0051 and c1002 , also u0422, when i did live data i noticed the clutch switch was not giving information, but no faults and i removed and checked if passed current and all seems fine. Any ideas?First don't panic, the vast majority of power steering faults are normally simple and cheap fixes
especially if it starts failing mainly in your winter months
But unfortunately nobody can say change this or do that and it fix it. A lot of different faults will cause the same symptoms or the red light to come on.
These are from both my own experiences and what others have found, thanks everyone that's add to the knowledge base. But I could have easy missed things out. Or have made a mistake
First of the symptoms often tell more about the problem than reading the codes which can be confusing or inconclusive. A lot of advise is just to read the codes, this is what I always did and said until I found out that a low power situation can also throw a torque sensor error (two confirmed cases)
mainly fails only cold mornings, likely battery or earth
or
mainly fails in winter, likely battery or earth
or
on the way to work but not on the way back, likely battery or earth
mainly fails First few minutes of driving, likely battery or earth
mainly fails First few T junctions, likely battery or earth
mainly fails reversing into a parking space, especially as you press the brake, likely battery or earth
mainly fails when at low REVs, likely battery or earth
only fails when going over a bump, loose cable / earth
only fails when the roads are wet loose alternator belt none aircon model's
mainly fails as you slow down from a fast run loose alternator belt none aircon model's
squeal as you accelerate random red light loose alternator belt none aircon model's
totally random Red light steering fine or goes heavy, normally battery or earth
red light on or off steering feels funny in one direction. Faulty torque sensor is likely, thankfully rare
red light on or off random vibration of the steering wheel. faulty torque sensor is likely, thankfully rare
only fails on hard lock in one direction, faulty torque sensor is likely, thankfully rare
steering wheel turns on its own, faulty torque sensor, never seen on the Panda, but have on other delphi EPS
battery substation, this has fixed hundreds of cars, at least 4 cars for me.
its worth mechanically cleaning the battery connectors first, unknow how many this fixes as often just swaping the battery hides the true fix. Both the terminal posts and inside of the connectors need to free from oxides. You can't tell by looking at them. you need to remove a clean clean them mechanical, both inside of the connectors and the lead post. I use a green scouring pad
At least two people on this forum have had the battery tested okay by a garages fancy electronic tester, for the fault to be the battery. Often wasting weeks going round in circles. Also testing with a simple volt meter is a waste of time. I have had a battery with dead cells and measured well under 12V at rest but never failed on the steering.
If someone could come up with a reliable test, life would be so much easier. I have tried with several meters on faulty cars and none have shown any problems with the battery or alternator. Nine time out of ten you are just wasting time and effort.
Only if you have any early 1.1 with cassette play or a none original replacement radio will you need the code for the radio. Everything else (the vast majority) you can disconnect at will as the code is remembered
If you place the battery on charge overnight and it improves is highly likely its on the way out. If its over 5 year its also quite likely
I have two cars. By far the easiest way for me is to swap the batteries over. A very High percentage of problems is nothing more than the battery this is what I always try fist unless the symptoms say otherwise. Having a spare battery is a big help, as you dont want to needless buy a new battery, but I know of no reliable test
I then move onto the quick and free solutions
not sure what to call this but its fixed at least 4 cars permanently, one mine(lock to lock). Park up preferably grass or gravel, kinder to the tyres but not essential, raise the revs to around 2K and quickly move the steering from lock to lock 4 or five times. Also you can also try toggling between city mode and normal driving it in each for a few minutes, this is also known to have fixed a car permanently in the past.
Power steering motor earth, I know of two car this has fixed. You can't tell by looking, unbolt it and clean with a green scouring pad or similar. The earth for the steering motor is bolted directly on top of the battery earth post. I would like to point out the earth on top of the gearbox has nothing to do with the power steering. Its often one of the first things people suggest.
If the car turns over (cranks) fine it will be fine.
torque sensor reseat, rare but I have had this fix one car for me, unplug and spray with contact cleaner and plug back in
I know nothing about this but someone had success by removing the motor and turning it through 180 degrees
recalibration with software, as far as I know this has fixed one, you can use multiecuscan, delphi, WOW and possibly more
one person has spotted a faulty alternator via a cigarette lighter volt meter.
before you check the alternator its best to inspect belt is tight, (I have had one fail due to a loose belt, I suspect there should be more.) not cracked or missing sections
moving on to the alternator itself, as far as I know this has fixed one, this is how I test mine
Listen for noises, squeal, rumble or grinding
the bearing can be checked with some rubber Hose works like a stethoscope. Although I find it easier to just slip the belt off and see if the noise goes
Let the battery rest for a few hours after a run then connect a volt meter on DC volts leads on the battery positive and negative terminals It should read 12.5-12.65 volts.
Start the engine should be between 13.5-14.5 volts. Mine is 14.1V. If its low try wiggling the wires if it jumps up suspect a loose connection
turning on the main beam, rear heated windows and blowers on max, voltage should remain above 13 volts, rev the engine it shouldn't go above 15V
we are now running out of simple solution
if you now read the error code and it says power. I have missed something out. sorry possibly the earth block bolted to the footwell but have never heard of one failing
if you have torque sensor symptoms and only a torque sensor error your only option is either change the steering column or torque sensor
torque sensor replace, this had fix quite a few in the past, less so now, we have learnt more since the early days, so make sure that it has been cleaned(contact cleaner) and reseat first otherwise it might not be the fault, but just fixed by swapping out the old dirty connector for a new part with a clean connector
I would like to add. From my experience that it can be a pain to fix. But stick with it. I have done at least a dozen not just Fiats, Not a single one yet has required a major repair in the end. In fact the only part I have ever replaced is the battery. The rest have just been reseat, clean, recalibrate or tighten belt. The odds have to be in favour of a cheap and easy repair.
These two together are normally the brake switchHi , i am struggling with my abarth grande punto , can you give some ideas? So the car gives times to times asr unavailable and hill holder
Steering torque sensor, either the sensor or it not receiving the correct voltageand very rare ocasions says to check the steering , is turn on and off usually solves it, the car does not ride everydays usually on weekends , battery 2 years old with some time sitting on not running, when i connected with mes i got the c0051 and c1002 ,
Is likely to be a power problemalso u0422,
when i did live data i noticed the clutch switch was not giving information, but no faults and i removed and checked if passed current and all seems fine. Any ideas?
Best regards
But in live data the brake switch works fine and gives the on / off position , the clutch switch however not gives the right information, any points i could check the earth? And the u0422 is checked on the yaw sensor? .These two together are normally the brake switch
Steering torque sensor, either the sensor or it not receiving the correct voltage
Almost certainly a power or earth problem if its rare and random
Is likely to be a power problem
View attachment 430641
Do you have a multimeter?
Battery charger?
Second car?
YesBut in live data the brake switch works fine and gives the on / off position , the clutch switch however not gives the right information, any points i could check the earth?
U0422And the u0422 is checked on the yaw sensor?
Great.
I have a multimeter
Great, that's one less stepAnd i have tried to charge the battery but no luck
I was going to suggest swapping the battery for the known good, but you have already done thisI have a second car .
Great info, this gives us a direction to followAlso worth mention that somethimes my headlight flickering at night.
Thank you and best regards
So my headlights happened in a mountain road in a corner but low revs , and the error of the asr and hill holder happens always at starting the car , i did charge the battery but not solved , but i did not try the battery of the second car because is not the same electric measures , is a diesel mito 1.6 ! Bit stronger battery can i try? My earth battery cable looks like this maybe i will give it a shot at cleaning.Yes
U0422
Is communication to the BSI according to elearn
Great
Great, that's one less step
I was going to suggest swapping the battery for the known good, but you have already done this
Great info, this gives us a direction to follow
Flickering headlights, c0051 and c1002 , and u0422 are often a power or ground issue, I would guess they are all connected, and this is where I would start
Before diving into diagnosing the problem a little more information might be able to pinpoint where to start testing
The headlights are flickering
Do they do this while stationery
Only when accelerating or braking
Only on bumpy roads
Only at low revs
Bumpy roads would suggest wiring, low revs would suggest alternator
I good quick and easy first step is to check the engine ground, disable the engine from starting, I pull the main relay out. I can't really advise as to which one as this is the Panda section and you have a Punto
Clean the top of the negative battery terminal with a great kitchen scouring pad or similar, do the same on a none painted part of the engine or cylinder head
Set the multimeter to DC volts, if it's not auto ranging switch it to around 20V
With the test leads on the negative terminal and the engine block, get someone to turn the engine over for around 5 seconds
The voltage should not go above 0.2V try the same while wiggling the earth cable at the battery and under the battery tray
Put the relay back in
Then check the chassis ground
Multi meter on the negative terminal again, put the other lead on any clean non painted part of the body shell, start the car put the main beam and rear heated window on and it should remain under 0.2V try wiggling the battery earth lead again
Assuming both tests remain below 0.2V the earth lead is good, I wouldn't be overly concerned if it was just a little higher
While doing this you can data log the battery voltage with multiecuscan
Here's mine with headlights and main beam flicked on and off
View attachment 430644
There's a 0.2V of a voltage drop but if you let it stabilise it's nearer to 0.1V
Dam corner and low revs at the same time doesn't narrow it down muchSo my headlights happened in a mountain road in a corner but low revs ,
I am ignoring this for the time being, a power and ground issues can cause sorts of gremlins,and the error of the asr and hill holder happens always at starting the car
Makes no difference, if you can make it fit you can try it, i did charge the battery but not solved , but i did not try the battery of the second car because is not the same electric measures , is a diesel mito 1.6 ! Bit stronger battery can i try?
My earth battery cable looks like this maybe i will give it a shot at cleaning.
View attachment 430646
Also i noticed something like a chirping noise at start up at first
Unlikelyi was thinking it could be the exhaust
Correctmanifold leaking but maybe is the alternator belt or bearing ,
is Only at cold start when hot is fine.
Thank you alot for the help i am at half an year and 2 mecanics and none have solved it .
Best regards
Yes , usualy when the lights flickered was always on the move , i checked the earth from the battery and is well fixed to the chassi , i will try the alfa battery to check if it runs ok and without faults , and maybe is the alternator that is failing i will let you know ,best regardsDam corner and low revs at the same time doesn't narrow it down much
I am ignoring this for the time being, a power and ground issues can cause sorts of gremlins,
Makes no difference, if you can make it fit you can try it
Can't really see too much here, the black lead is to earth lead going to the EPS motor, it would be worth unbolting and cleaning with a scouring pad, smearing with dielectric or petroleum gel and bolting back, while your there, is the black insulator okay under the crud. It's hard to tell in the photo, the part that normally corrodes is off camera
Bearing or aux belt, problem needs addressing, does your car have aircon
Unlikely
Correct
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In advance of the Service Manual update and to complete the instructions in Service News 41.08.04 - CD 02/2004 (Fiat Panda - EPS system diagnostic procedures), the diagnostic procedure is described below: 41K74 Failure warning light coming on without failure of electric steering power assistance The fault diagnosis carried out in this way should be entered under SIGI code 4110 1 101 AE for which there is a time allowance of 0.35 hours; for all operations mentioned, refer to the Service Manual and the Flat Rate Manual
CLAIM REPORT DATA
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Is it random, totally random is rareI have a steering wheel support problem with a red warning on the dashboard. Fiat panda 1.2 2009
We know it's not the batteryI have tried the following remedies for this problem, trying each one for at least a few days-km. Unfortunately each one resulted in a similar red warning and loss of steering wheel support.
I have tried cleaning the battery contacts,
I cleaned the old earth cable,
I also added 1 extra earth lead.
I have just bought a new Varta C22 battery.
Have you cleaned this terminalNone of them unfortunately helped.
Steering wheel gets really heavy, I get to a safe place and turn the ignition off and on again and it works again.
Alternator works as it should. Battery rest voltage is 12.6v.
My car RHDI can not pin point it exactly but it does not happen on highway once. Most of the time early in the morning turning on to the street or so.
I removed old the negative and possitive nuts and bolts and with cleaned it with emory cloth inside out, including the inner area of battery terminals. I sprayed contact cleaner and wiped it off with clean towel.
I tried lock to lock turning on grass surface around 3000 rpm for atleast 10 times both in normal and city mode. Started and stopped the car in between and also tried it without stopping the car. Total of 40 times i moved steering left lock to right lock. The car was warm and the air was also around 15c. It did not failed during these procedure but after 2days it failed 4 times in a 20kms of driving.
I did not check the fusebox and a pillar contact. I will check the fusebox bolt and f05fy and report again.
Where is this. C020 B connection exactly? Is it in odb2 port compartment