MarcoWuerttemberger
Member
Numbers DPF and AGR Cooler with parts for install..ordered at Augustin Group Germany ( official Fiat Spare Part Dealer) for 130 HP Ducato Manual Transmission
Technical Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next
- Thread starter Fredastaire
- Start date
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Technical Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next
@MarcoWuerttemberger Do you have the new MAP number?
Fredastaire
Member
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2017
- Messages
- 414
- Points
- 127
Part numbers again.
Turbo solenoid valve Fiat 0055269482 - 001 , can be bought at discounted price from Coastal Motorhomes, their part number on the Fiat box is B35749, this is for the 130 which has the fixed vane turbo as opposed to the 150 & 180s which have the bigger variable vane turbo
Turbo solenoid valve Fiat 0055269482 - 001 , can be bought at discounted price from Coastal Motorhomes, their part number on the Fiat box is B35749, this is for the 130 which has the fixed vane turbo as opposed to the 150 & 180s which have the bigger variable vane turbo
So I'm having my DPF replaced this week, so it would seem some of us had DPF failure due to faulty manufacturing, rather than a software issue?....
MarcoWuerttemberger
Member
Probably a combination of everything...the official procedure from Fiat is new injectors, DPF and EGR cooler + version 32.
How do I explain this to myself ? Software 28 kills one ore more injectors over time (Injection quantity no longer fits correctly), leads to a broken DPF, particles clog the cooler, and then errors.
I also looked at the removed sensors...they were pretty sooty and black. So they weren't providing correct readings anymore.
Is there anyone who has experienced problems again after a Fiat repair? That is, they replaced these parts and received a software update?
Of course, it could also be something else entirely. I'd like to explain it this way so I can finally have some peace and enjoy the camper.
New DPF ,new cooler ,I've been on v32 for a year now , so if it happens again...then I think I'll admit defeat and buy a 20 year old sprinter ,can fix them with gaffer tape and a hammer!!!!Probably a combination of everything...the official procedure from Fiat is new injectors, DPF and EGR cooler + version 32.
How do I explain this to myself ? Software 28 kills one ore more injectors over time (Injection quantity no longer fits correctly), leads to a broken DPF, particles clog the cooler, and then errors.
I also looked at the removed sensors...they were pretty sooty and black. So they weren't providing correct readings anymore.
Is there anyone who has experienced problems again after a Fiat repair? That is, they replaced these parts and received a software update?
Of course, it could also be something else entirely. I'd like to explain it this way so I can finally have some peace and enjoy the camper.
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2011
- Messages
- 156
- Points
- 86
If you do have a solution to the problem, please share it here. That is what this forum is for.
theoneandonly
Established member
Repair items lists and parts replaced. hope it makes sense with formmating lost
1 DESCRIPTION part No is Price
2 MAP 0 281 006 076 22-02-213B23
3 MAF
4 Differental DPF 0 281 006 287 55241075
5
6 turbo solenoid 55269482-001 x Anti-Pollution System Electro-Valve
7
8
9
10 N/STOCK SILENC.CATL F00000727798501 2168.22
11 L0619 HEAT EXCHANGER F0005802131785 x 301.31 item 11,19,37,50,60
12 T1305 F0005802273614 x 153.99
13 N/STOCK SUPPORT F0005801848266 Power Steering Pump Support
95.41
14
15 Smudger55
16 SEALING GASKET 5802182432 x item 16,44
17 RECON EGR VALVE 71796895 x
18 ADAPTOR
19 HEAT EXCHANGER 5802131785 x item 11,19,37,50,60
20 COLLAR 580218132
21 SILENCER CATALIZED 1398664080 x dpf Item 21,66
22 SEALING GASKET 51823801 x Exhaust Piping Seal Gasket Item 64,22
23
24 Service details
25 RECON EGR VALVE 71796727 x HP EGR VALVE
26 SEALING GASKET 53140107 x item 26,38,61
27 SEALING GASKET 5802002541 x
28 SEALING GASKET 5802187019 x Exhaust Gas Control Device Seal Gasket
29 COLLAR 5801841286 x FIAT Ducato 2006-2020 Exhaust Gas Control Device Collar
30 PACKING 10257060
31 MUTTER 15504011 x Front Suspension Nut
32 MUTTER 15503811 Track rod end 15503811
33 MUTTER 15503921 x Steering Gear Nut
34 NUTS 1328030080 x Axle Shafts Nut
35
36 steve clark
37 HEAT EXCHANGER 5802131785 x cooler 296.31 item 11,19,37,50,60
38 SEALING GASKET 53140107 x 10.53 item 26,38,61
39 NUT 15504011 x 7.11
40 NUT 15503921 x 4.83
41 SEALING GASKET 518223801 x 16.14
42 NUT 14060011 x 0.63
43 SCREW 1340375080 x Steering Gear Screw 4.38
44 SEALING GASKET 5802182432 12.11 item 16,44
45 HOSE CLIP DAQ505185B 0.76
46 SILENCER CATAL.REGEN FI0000071798519 x 2149.18
47
48 ANOTHER LIST
49 HP EGR VALVE 71796727 x
50 HEAT EXCHANGER F5802131785 LPEGR cooler 310.35 item 11,19,37,50,60
51
52 Lambda sensor £126 55281073 x Exhaust Piping Lambda Probe 165
53 GLOW PLUG F5802823579 32.21
54 N/STK PIPE F0055279934 x Exhaust Gas Control Device Pipe 118.78
55 EGR V F0071796727 x 249.25
56
57
58 Marco Wuerttemberger
59 Exhaust fastening nut 8020052 7004 M8 X1.25 16MM
60 Warm exchanger exhaust kuhler 2390185OE 5802131785
61 exhaust seal 2430058OE 53140107 item 26,38,61
62 exhaust clamp M10dia 73mm 2440133OE 46816240
63 Schelle for the EGR valve 2370088OE 5802181032
64 exhaust seal turbo OE 51823801 2410109OE 51823801 Item 64,22
65 seal EGR valve 2370093OE 5801920151 Item 65,72
66 particle filter 2540052OE 1398664080 dpf dpf Item 21,66
71
72 O ring LP EGR cooler to engine block BS119-N70 5801920151 Item 65,72
73 LP EGR temp probe on the elbow pipe 5802 0776 37 - 001
74 UK sourced alternative BS119-N70
75
76 JIW
77 GLOW PLUG 4. F5802823579 120103H 32.21 EACH 0.00 128.84 S
78 N/STK HEAT EXCHANGER F5802131785 310.35
79 N/STK PIPE 1.0 118.7 F0055279934 S 118.78
80 N/STK RECOND.D EGR V F0071796727 249.25
81
1 DESCRIPTION part No is Price
2 MAP 0 281 006 076 22-02-213B23
3 MAF
4 Differental DPF 0 281 006 287 55241075
5
6 turbo solenoid 55269482-001 x Anti-Pollution System Electro-Valve
7
8
9
10 N/STOCK SILENC.CATL F00000727798501 2168.22
11 L0619 HEAT EXCHANGER F0005802131785 x 301.31 item 11,19,37,50,60
12 T1305 F0005802273614 x 153.99
13 N/STOCK SUPPORT F0005801848266 Power Steering Pump Support
95.41
14
15 Smudger55
16 SEALING GASKET 5802182432 x item 16,44
17 RECON EGR VALVE 71796895 x
18 ADAPTOR
19 HEAT EXCHANGER 5802131785 x item 11,19,37,50,60
20 COLLAR 580218132
21 SILENCER CATALIZED 1398664080 x dpf Item 21,66
22 SEALING GASKET 51823801 x Exhaust Piping Seal Gasket Item 64,22
23
24 Service details
25 RECON EGR VALVE 71796727 x HP EGR VALVE
26 SEALING GASKET 53140107 x item 26,38,61
27 SEALING GASKET 5802002541 x
28 SEALING GASKET 5802187019 x Exhaust Gas Control Device Seal Gasket
29 COLLAR 5801841286 x FIAT Ducato 2006-2020 Exhaust Gas Control Device Collar
30 PACKING 10257060
31 MUTTER 15504011 x Front Suspension Nut
32 MUTTER 15503811 Track rod end 15503811
33 MUTTER 15503921 x Steering Gear Nut
34 NUTS 1328030080 x Axle Shafts Nut
35
36 steve clark
37 HEAT EXCHANGER 5802131785 x cooler 296.31 item 11,19,37,50,60
38 SEALING GASKET 53140107 x 10.53 item 26,38,61
39 NUT 15504011 x 7.11
40 NUT 15503921 x 4.83
41 SEALING GASKET 518223801 x 16.14
42 NUT 14060011 x 0.63
43 SCREW 1340375080 x Steering Gear Screw 4.38
44 SEALING GASKET 5802182432 12.11 item 16,44
45 HOSE CLIP DAQ505185B 0.76
46 SILENCER CATAL.REGEN FI0000071798519 x 2149.18
47
48 ANOTHER LIST
49 HP EGR VALVE 71796727 x
50 HEAT EXCHANGER F5802131785 LPEGR cooler 310.35 item 11,19,37,50,60
51
52 Lambda sensor £126 55281073 x Exhaust Piping Lambda Probe 165
53 GLOW PLUG F5802823579 32.21
54 N/STK PIPE F0055279934 x Exhaust Gas Control Device Pipe 118.78
55 EGR V F0071796727 x 249.25
56
57
58 Marco Wuerttemberger
59 Exhaust fastening nut 8020052 7004 M8 X1.25 16MM
60 Warm exchanger exhaust kuhler 2390185OE 5802131785
61 exhaust seal 2430058OE 53140107 item 26,38,61
62 exhaust clamp M10dia 73mm 2440133OE 46816240
63 Schelle for the EGR valve 2370088OE 5802181032
64 exhaust seal turbo OE 51823801 2410109OE 51823801 Item 64,22
65 seal EGR valve 2370093OE 5801920151 Item 65,72
66 particle filter 2540052OE 1398664080 dpf dpf Item 21,66
71
72 O ring LP EGR cooler to engine block BS119-N70 5801920151 Item 65,72
73 LP EGR temp probe on the elbow pipe 5802 0776 37 - 001
74 UK sourced alternative BS119-N70
75
76 JIW
77 GLOW PLUG 4. F5802823579 120103H 32.21 EACH 0.00 128.84 S
78 N/STK HEAT EXCHANGER F5802131785 310.35
79 N/STK PIPE 1.0 118.7 F0055279934 S 118.78
80 N/STK RECOND.D EGR V F0071796727 249.25
81
Last edited:
I checked the car for LPEGR problems.
My car Fiat Ducato January 2018 150hp 40K Soft ver 025
I have no problems with errors 401 and 402.
However, I have another problem. On a cold engine, on low and medium acceleration I have a problem with a momentary loss of power. When the engine reaches a normal operating temperature of 90 degrees, everything is fine.
Sorry for the quality of the photos, I don't have an SD card for the inspection camera yet.
I checked for soot, then I checked the MAP sensor. I unscrewed the Dpf Filter connection to the LPEGR cooler and checked with an endoscopic camera what is visible on the filter and cooler. Then I did a test drive according to the recommendations. I am sending photos and files in the attachment.
My car Fiat Ducato January 2018 150hp 40K Soft ver 025
I have no problems with errors 401 and 402.
However, I have another problem. On a cold engine, on low and medium acceleration I have a problem with a momentary loss of power. When the engine reaches a normal operating temperature of 90 degrees, everything is fine.
Sorry for the quality of the photos, I don't have an SD card for the inspection camera yet.
I checked for soot, then I checked the MAP sensor. I unscrewed the Dpf Filter connection to the LPEGR cooler and checked with an endoscopic camera what is visible on the filter and cooler. Then I did a test drive according to the recommendations. I am sending photos and files in the attachment.
Attachments
@Fredastaire @theoneandonly @Piotr129 @MarcoWuerttemberger @Serrow225 @MSjoberg @Jiwawa @phaphanou @jansla
This is a fantastic thread with much collective input, and we must thank the OP for his original detective work getting to the cause and mechanism of the issue.
But the one thing that has always bothered me is the statement and prolific repetition that the Bosch 0281006028 MAP sensor is the wrong one and incorrectly fitted in the factory, never being allocated by Bosch for the Ducato.
Why then are so many Ducato’s with this sensor fitted still running around the world and running very well? It has finally got the better of me – and obviously a few others as evidenced by recent postings on this discussion. I decided it was time to buy a cheap borescope and have a look. No surprise there – my vehicle is fitted with the Bosch MAP sensor 0281006028 as well! Oh no, it has the wrong sensor! I have owned it from new and service it myself – all components as per factory delivery. It is a 2017, 2.3l, 150 with Comfortmatic and pulls like a schoolboy. It was running V.24 SW for most of its life, only updated to V.32 after coming across this thread around a year ago. No issues so far, and the exhaust running clean.
So, first thing I did was contact FIAT PRO and gave them the VIN number. They responded with the correct FIAT part number of 504369148. Oh No! That, according to Bosch is the Bosch part number 0281006076. HMMM! OK, time to dig deeper! I persist with my enquiries to Bosch, and they were fantastic to deal with. They bent over backwards to provide me with as much detail as possible for both sensor numbers. They also gave me permission to post the data here as well.
They had the complete data on the 6076, but not all the data for the 6028 (they were missing the thermistor response data). While I was waiting on the reply from Bosch (they had to communicate with Head Office in Germany for part of the data) I decided to use MES and go for a drive whilst measuring the four data points of interest and then calculate from that data the actual impedance of the thermistor versus temperature of my 0281006028 so it can be checked against the Bosch specified response curve of the 0281006076 which I already obtained from Bosch. Guess what – they track each other! While I was at it I checked the pressure response as well – and that data shows the two sensors are very likely identical.
I will also post the files and the derived spreadsheet of the results. Anyone who has the 6076 sensor and MES could duplicate the test run and compare the outcome if desired to prove beyond any doubt that both the sensors are interchangeable. For the keen of eye, the only noticeable difference between the two is a very slight change in the external plastic moulding, and the 6028 has a more accurate pressure sensor! So, anyone who has removed a good working 6028 and replaced it with the 6076 has a less accurate pressure sensor component! No big deal, but just a waste of money and effort.
To back this interchangeability up, buried in the data from Bosch is one FIAT part number that appears on the Bosch pdf lists of both sensors – and that is FIAT part number 55206797.
So please, can we put this MAP sensor issue to bed? Either the Bosch 0281006028 or the 0281006076 is going to work equally as well in the Ducato. FIAT did not fit the wrong sensor in the factory as originally stated in this thread, and it is not a factor in the underlying issue that this thread is about. In fact, the 0281006028 has a higher accuracy on the pressure sensing component, the thermistor (temperature sensing) is identical.
Readers may find this link useful: https://www.bosch-ibusiness.com/
Bosch MAP Sensor 0281006028:
Bosch MAP Sensor 0281006076:
This is a fantastic thread with much collective input, and we must thank the OP for his original detective work getting to the cause and mechanism of the issue.
But the one thing that has always bothered me is the statement and prolific repetition that the Bosch 0281006028 MAP sensor is the wrong one and incorrectly fitted in the factory, never being allocated by Bosch for the Ducato.
Why then are so many Ducato’s with this sensor fitted still running around the world and running very well? It has finally got the better of me – and obviously a few others as evidenced by recent postings on this discussion. I decided it was time to buy a cheap borescope and have a look. No surprise there – my vehicle is fitted with the Bosch MAP sensor 0281006028 as well! Oh no, it has the wrong sensor! I have owned it from new and service it myself – all components as per factory delivery. It is a 2017, 2.3l, 150 with Comfortmatic and pulls like a schoolboy. It was running V.24 SW for most of its life, only updated to V.32 after coming across this thread around a year ago. No issues so far, and the exhaust running clean.
So, first thing I did was contact FIAT PRO and gave them the VIN number. They responded with the correct FIAT part number of 504369148. Oh No! That, according to Bosch is the Bosch part number 0281006076. HMMM! OK, time to dig deeper! I persist with my enquiries to Bosch, and they were fantastic to deal with. They bent over backwards to provide me with as much detail as possible for both sensor numbers. They also gave me permission to post the data here as well.
They had the complete data on the 6076, but not all the data for the 6028 (they were missing the thermistor response data). While I was waiting on the reply from Bosch (they had to communicate with Head Office in Germany for part of the data) I decided to use MES and go for a drive whilst measuring the four data points of interest and then calculate from that data the actual impedance of the thermistor versus temperature of my 0281006028 so it can be checked against the Bosch specified response curve of the 0281006076 which I already obtained from Bosch. Guess what – they track each other! While I was at it I checked the pressure response as well – and that data shows the two sensors are very likely identical.
I will also post the files and the derived spreadsheet of the results. Anyone who has the 6076 sensor and MES could duplicate the test run and compare the outcome if desired to prove beyond any doubt that both the sensors are interchangeable. For the keen of eye, the only noticeable difference between the two is a very slight change in the external plastic moulding, and the 6028 has a more accurate pressure sensor! So, anyone who has removed a good working 6028 and replaced it with the 6076 has a less accurate pressure sensor component! No big deal, but just a waste of money and effort.
To back this interchangeability up, buried in the data from Bosch is one FIAT part number that appears on the Bosch pdf lists of both sensors – and that is FIAT part number 55206797.
So please, can we put this MAP sensor issue to bed? Either the Bosch 0281006028 or the 0281006076 is going to work equally as well in the Ducato. FIAT did not fit the wrong sensor in the factory as originally stated in this thread, and it is not a factor in the underlying issue that this thread is about. In fact, the 0281006028 has a higher accuracy on the pressure sensing component, the thermistor (temperature sensing) is identical.
Readers may find this link useful: https://www.bosch-ibusiness.com/
Bosch MAP Sensor 0281006028:
Bosch MAP Sensor 0281006076:
So the last few posts seem confirmed a few more facts, correct me if I'm wrong?
V28 and v32 don't seem to be extremely different on how ECU controls running of van , some corrections to fuel etc , the MAP sensor is not a massive influence on engine running!
So it seems to all point to a defective batch of DPFs , which then start a chain reaction of damage to engine by clogging up sensors and air induction routes that affect injectors, eventually causing massive repair bills .
Which Fiat posted a service note to dealership, but never made it public knowledge.
V28 and v32 don't seem to be extremely different on how ECU controls running of van , some corrections to fuel etc , the MAP sensor is not a massive influence on engine running!
So it seems to all point to a defective batch of DPFs , which then start a chain reaction of damage to engine by clogging up sensors and air induction routes that affect injectors, eventually causing massive repair bills .
Which Fiat posted a service note to dealership, but never made it public knowledge.
I have no idea what the difference is between the SW versions, but I do know that when I presented at my local FIAT PRO dealer with that Service Note in hand, he demanded where did I get that from!? He also said it is needed and did the update at no charge to me - said it was covered by FIAT. Nice guy. I would think the MAP sensor has a major influence as it part of the feedback control for the motor - Turbo control etc - so if it malfunctions, the effect would be immediate and apparent. You may well be right regarding suspect DPF's but we will probably never know. Stellantis is such a wonderful company!
theoneandonly
Established member
@deejays supurb work, it has needed doing for while. Originaly the information/ mis information came from Bosch UK via @Fredastaire but is compounded by poor database consistancy. The @MarcoWuerttemberger info concerning fuelling difference V28/V32 does not contradict maybe supports the info I was given by a "trusted " fiat pro dealership in that if you havent had a problem with V28 then keep it untill you do (the cynic in me says yes when its a problem it my pocket thats £10k lighter.). @serrow a repeat of what ive said previously,
dpf quality. One thing that ive said before and i know there will be no evidence to substantiate these thoughts (well not in the public domain) is that the ducato Dpf was of a new design and of a new production technology. I am not aware of the precise technology used (and no longer have contacts in Johnson Mathey) but with my knowledge of thick and thin film technolgies to coat ceramics i can sermise there could have been in the early days batch related production issues that could lead to cracking .
So what is causing the DPF to fail?
Possibly a combination of UPTO 3 issues
Dodgy? software
Injectors
Suspect batch of DPF
Software: one thing that is missing is detail on the temperature of regen with early versions and amount/timing of fuel injected to get a regen. If a difference between v28 and v32 also important. One thing relevant to this is is there more than 1 dodgy batch of dpf's eg late 18/19
@deejays a few questions
Have you had a blocked cooler/cracked dpf
have you the original c of c and know date from factory or any date eg from convertors date of export.
V24 too much to think you would have any MES data from that period or any regen info at all.
I'm trying to pin down dates of software Versions and manufacturing dates of problem vehicles.
The number of problem vehicles is quite low in comparrisson to Adblu but still too many possible time bombs ticking out there?
dpf quality. One thing that ive said before and i know there will be no evidence to substantiate these thoughts (well not in the public domain) is that the ducato Dpf was of a new design and of a new production technology. I am not aware of the precise technology used (and no longer have contacts in Johnson Mathey) but with my knowledge of thick and thin film technolgies to coat ceramics i can sermise there could have been in the early days batch related production issues that could lead to cracking .
So what is causing the DPF to fail?
Possibly a combination of UPTO 3 issues
Dodgy? software
Injectors
Suspect batch of DPF
Software: one thing that is missing is detail on the temperature of regen with early versions and amount/timing of fuel injected to get a regen. If a difference between v28 and v32 also important. One thing relevant to this is is there more than 1 dodgy batch of dpf's eg late 18/19
@deejays a few questions
Have you had a blocked cooler/cracked dpf
have you the original c of c and know date from factory or any date eg from convertors date of export.
V24 too much to think you would have any MES data from that period or any regen info at all.
I'm trying to pin down dates of software Versions and manufacturing dates of problem vehicles.
The number of problem vehicles is quite low in comparrisson to Adblu but still too many possible time bombs ticking out there?
@deejays thank you for your very comprehensive post; the technical stuff is beyond me but I wanted to apologise for lifting the 'bad MAP sensor' and running with it - tho I'm glad I did cos it's flushed out your info about it NOT being the problem! I guess I was just so desperate to find a reason for the problem.
theoneandonly
Established member
Some nice photos there. With those and the collected data i can say you have not got a cracked dpf/ blocked lpegr cooler.
illustrates good openning of lpegr valve and temperatures.
at temperature the turbo works as it should.
the city and mixed are from cold to warm and show the "actual" pressure higher than "desired".
If the problem was due to the turbo solenoid I would expect it to be tother way around. This orientation could be correct if the pressure measurements were incorrect ie dodgy MAP sensor, however i have seen worse looking ones read ok. if there is a picture of the centre of the sensor it may indicate the MAP as the problem. So first option clean the MAP.
Injector info good.
Have you got any data just before these three? It would include a very useful regen info for V25 (was 7.5 km before these results)
@MarcoWuerttemberger I just spent hours to find guys with the same problem.
Our Fiat Ducato 180 is in Garage since Sept. 2024. They didn’t found the problem yet
They have already replaced the EGR, the MAP sensor and the air filter.
May can I ask which garage you went to or if we could perhaps talk on the phone? I'm really desperate, the garage has been telling us to sell it for months.
We’re from the south of Germany (Freiburg), near Switzerland and France. I would drive anywhere for our Fiat. We rebuilt it for 1 1/2 years for our needs.
It would be really great if you can may help us out.
Thank you in advance und Grüße aus Freiburg
Our Fiat Ducato 180 is in Garage since Sept. 2024. They didn’t found the problem yet
They have already replaced the EGR, the MAP sensor and the air filter.
May can I ask which garage you went to or if we could perhaps talk on the phone? I'm really desperate, the garage has been telling us to sell it for months.
We’re from the south of Germany (Freiburg), near Switzerland and France. I would drive anywhere for our Fiat. We rebuilt it for 1 1/2 years for our needs.
It would be really great if you can may help us out.
Thank you in advance und Grüße aus Freiburg
If you haven't already, then I suggest you read this entire thread. Yes, it is a lot, but to understand what is going on with a dual EGR motor you really need to - particularly the first few pages.@MarcoWuerttemberger I just spent hours to find guys with the same problem.
Our Fiat Ducato 180 is in Garage since Sept. 2024. They didn’t found the problem yet
They have already replaced the EGR, the MAP sensor and the air filter.
May can I ask which garage you went to or if we could perhaps talk on the phone? I'm really desperate, the garage has been telling us to sell it for months.
We’re from the south of Germany (Freiburg), near Switzerland and France. I would drive anywhere for our Fiat. We rebuilt it for 1 1/2 years for our needs.
It would be really great if you can may help us out.
Thank you in advance und Grüße aus Freiburg
