Technical Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next

[Serrow225]

I am stumped! I normally keep records of data like that. I have just spent the last 30 minutes trying to find where I read that info regarding the difference in the DPF's but I give up - I am at a loss. Sorry about that So maybe, there is no difference - does anyone have, or come across this info in the past? Regarding the issue being more of a problem with the comfortmatics - is it likely this is due to the comfortmatic logic keeping the rpm's lower than a "normal" person would driving a manual?

I switch between a manual car , a conventional automatic transit,and my 130 comfortmatic .
And although I like the comfortmatic I definitely think it struggles to calculate gear changing on approaching hills and bends which seems to upset the engine ( a human driver would keep in selected gear ,but comfortmatic change's up to then bog down and immediately drop a gear )

 

[deejays]

I switch between a manual car , a conventional automatic transit,and my 130 comfortmatic .
And although I like the comfortmatic I definitely think it struggles to calculate gear changing on approaching hills and bends which seems to upset the engine ( a human driver would keep in selected gear ,but comfortmatic change's up to then bog down and immediately drop a gear )

To that end, I drive mine in "UP" mode all the time, with the occasional manual intervention when required. I got so tired of pushing that button, I built an interface circuit so now it automatically selects "UP" mode every time the vehicle is started.

 

[theoneandonly]

I now have the interface and a paid version of MES. What info would you like me to collect? Template 4? With regard to CSV files, I note that the default in MES is tab separation, rather than comma separation. Which do you prefer - or does that not matter?

In my database i keep info like Comf or Manual and ECU Version no if stated i am having a rumage around my info but nothing useful on 130/150 will have to search through old threads.

Data to collect yes template 4 generaly and one hit of 7 , 9 is handy as it doesnt need the engine to run ie slow moving data like regen info last regen etc..
As to tab or csv dont mind most is sent in tab and i just rename as .txt and my spreadsheet imports it perfectly. Its ancient called Gnuemeric for Linux and Windows. Which is why my graphs my not look like excel out of the box. TAB is perfect.

 

[deejays]

In my database i keep info like Comf or Manual and ECU Version no if stated i am having a rumage around my info but nothing useful on 130/150 will have to search through old threads.

Data to collect yes template 4 generaly and one hit of 7 , 9 is handy as it doesnt need the engine to run ie slow moving data like regen info last regen etc..
As to tab or csv dont mind most is sent in tab and i just rename as .txt and my spreadsheet imports it perfectly. Its ancient called Gnuemeric for Linux and Windows. Which is why my graphs my not look like excel out of the box. TAB is perfect.

Attached two files - 2407081424 is a 20 minute run, beginning from cold start up, warming up and a 100kph section. 2407081440 is a 9 minute run, fully warmed up, with a run at 100kph to a roundabout with a return run of 100kph. Both begin and end with vehicle at a standstill. Template 4. The vehicle is a 2018 Adria 600SP that I have owned since new. Well maintained (by me) and running early SW on both ECM and TCM. (ECM SW Version 24). Comfortmatic Transmission. 150HP engine. Av distance between last regen: 675km. Distance from last regen: 187 km. Total regens: 51. Oil degradation: 90.1%. Nil overrev or missed or dubious regens - all regens normal. Wipe of exhaust after completion of test run included.

 

[theoneandonly]

@deejays wipe test spot on
first graphs LPEGR good valve control good temperatures. Injectors good
engine under control

 

[deejays]

Thanks, and yes it does look like the engine is performing well. Which leaves me in a quandary. Do I just continue on and stick with the existing SW under the banner of "if it isn't broken, don't try and fix it", or do I look upon it as: so far I have dodged a bullet that some time soon may be coming my way, and rush to the nearest FIAT PRO workshop and get the SW of both engine and comfortmatic updated to the current software? The point that really concerns me is the wording in the SW V32 Bulletin (FCA Service News10 023.10) under the heading of Technical Cause: Software calibration. This does very strongly suggest the faults addressed in that bulletin were all caused by the then current installed SW. I have had no joy from any FIAT PRO Service desk, nor local FIAT Head Office as to what this SW V32 does. Does anyone have any idea I wonder? In all the Template 4 scans you have observed have you been able to see if there is any marked differences in scan results between the various SW versions? From the two files I supplied I noticed that there may be some sort of correlation between the timing of the Injector correction bursts and HP EGR Valve opening - but that is just from a two file sample.

 

[theoneandonly]

@deejays Mind you, the vehicle has only done a little over 30,000km. The ECM is running SW Version 0024 and the TCM is also running old SW as well - so after reading this entire post I am very much concerned and considering booking in for an update at FIAT PRO dealership.
one comment i remember that came from a dealership is "V32 doesnt clear up a problem it just prevents it happenning ". I think its imperative that you get both ecu and tcu updated. Due to nature of this problem and how i get data i have insufficient data to directly compare versions. I have 2 engines without problems (not refurbished) a manual v28 and comf v32. Yours with v24 is a perfect opportunity to collect data. I would love it if you could capture a regen, i could learn a lot. But of course your pocket and vans health is important.

 

[deejays]

@deejays Mind you, the vehicle has only done a little over 30,000km. The ECM is running SW Version 0024 and the TCM is also running old SW as well - so after reading this entire post I am very much concerned and considering booking in for an update at FIAT PRO dealership.
one comment i remember that came from a dealership is "V32 doesnt clear up a problem it just prevents it happenning ". I think its imperative that you get both ecu and tcu updated. Due to nature of this problem and how i get data i have insufficient data to directly compare versions. I have 2 engines without problems (not refurbished) a manual v28 and comf v32. Yours with v24 is a perfect opportunity to collect data. I would love it if you could capture a regen, i could learn a lot. But of course your pocket and vans health is important.

Thank you John - I will be ringing tomorrow to make a booking with FIAT PRO. It does look like what you have just said is correct - so best I get this update done and dusted ASAP. My first post a couple of pages back included screen grabs of the last regen on this vehicle using my AUTEL DS808. It does not provide anything like the detail that can be captured with MES, but it does show the DPF temperature during the regen - and from my knowledge does not look extreme. I know of another MH that has same engine, but the 180HP version and has done around 80 to 90 thousand km without issue and is running the identical SW version as mine - both ECM and TCM - also a comfortmatic. The owner also has MES, so I might make a call and see if I can arrange for some Template 4 files. I know it has a very clean tailpipe. Regards, Daryl

 

[theoneandonly]

@deejays more graphs from last night

 

[Fredastaire]

@theoneandonly I'm just logging an entry as I'm not getting current alerts on this long post. (For anybody reading this, it's me who started this 55 page thread, I'm still surviving with V32 130 comfortmatic).

 

[deejays]

@Fredastaire Thanks for all the work you have done alerting owners of this particular engine to this issue and diagnosing the underlying cause.
@theoneandonly Thanks for your ongoing and diligent work collating and reporting all that data.

 

[Serrow225]

A quick picture of my exhaust wipe after 3hrs 120miles , mixed motorway, suburban roads , suspect crack in DPF , after new LPEGR cooler

 

[Fredastaire]

To be honest , that's not bad at all. Plus if you had to replace a blocked cooler then a cracked DPF would have been the reason that the cooler was blocked.

 

[Serrow225]

That's now running super diesel, and additive.

 

[Fredastaire]

Mine has been running sooty for two years now after cooler change. I'm suspicious that it may be blocking again. It's still cheaper to replace a cooler every few years than buy a new DPF. It's just a pity that we don't have a DPF rebuild company in the UK.

 

[Serrow225]

To be honest , that's not bad at all. Plus if you had to replace a blocked cooler then a cracked DPF would have been the reason that the cooler was blocked.

Ok last picture, but I definitely get a thicker coating when I'm slow moving low revs ,I was stuck last bit of journey on M4 ,50 mins of sub 40mph crawl...did 60miles after other wipe ? And soot levels increase, not sure what is influencing this ?

 

[theoneandonly]

@Fredastaire Thanks for all the work you have done alerting owners of this particular engine to this issue and diagnosing the underlying cause.
@theoneandonly Thanks for your ongoing and diligent work collating and reporting all that data.

Almost From the beggining @Fredastaire and myself worked together to solve his issues (me to understand and avoid them) with insight from others on this forum (vital) . We could see the difference between a good and bad engine but was it also possibly due to software differences. And data from others was needed. After a long phone call and brainstorming we had the solution. We have helped a few people on the way but this one of the reasons such forums exist, self help. The are a number of members here that put in a lot of replies and experiance on older models that also need to be thanked. I thank fiat forum for existing and not being frightened of the truth outing. I also thank fred for putting up with me.

 

[deejays]

@theoneandonly @Fredastaire and any others with MES experience: With regard to using MES with the Ducato is it normal that when scanning/connecting to the ABS module that it triggers the vehicle to generate an ABS alarm - including yellow lights and audible beep alarm on the dash of the vehicle? The first time it happened gave me the shivers! This is a repeatable issue and occurs with either of the two interfaces I have - OBDLINK SX, and Vgate vLinker FS USB on Win 11. It doesn't generate a fault, but it certainly gave the operator a jolt! I know this is not specifically on topic here, but I reckon it is probably the best place to ask, considering the wealth of experience present. Apart from that one issue, my experience of MES has been flawless.

 

[theoneandonly]

I think it would be better off as a separate thread purely to help others searching, and to possbly engage those that would not look at a twin egr thread.

I dont think This is normal behaviour. I have had the abs be reticent to connect when scanning but if specifically connecting to abs is ok. I have also had more problems of connectivity with a cheap ebay yellow adaptor than a gendan yellow. The cheap one was part of a multicoloured set

 

[Fredastaire]

@deejays I've only ever used MES with the genuine Gendan supplied leads and never had the need to investigate ABS, like @theoneandonly says it's best to add a post elsewhere as it's nothing to do with our engine faults origins.