Technical Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next

[Fredastaire]

@Serrow225 , please take note that Im 2 years down the line from changing the cooler AND I have a slightly sooty exhaust.
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Please can @theoneandonly comment to @Serrow225 about my latest csv results to give some confidence that it might be acceptable..
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Are you using best fuel plus dosing it yet? Whereas I can't prove what I'm doing is right I'm not going to change...

 

[Serrow225]

@Serrow225 , please take note that Im 2 years down the line from changing the cooler AND I have a slightly sooty exhaust.
.
Please can @theoneandonly comment to @Serrow225 about my latest csv results to give some confidence that it might be acceptable..
.
Are you using best fuel plus dosing it yet? Whereas I can't prove what I'm doing is right I'm not going to change...

Hi
At the moment I've got a full tank of normal fuel,but I've added miller's diesel additive, I'll empty this tank and then try premium with miller's, see what the soot levels are like each run . Looking at my old LP cooler I'm surprised just how badly the engine was behaving with just that amount of soot over the fine filter , it's a bad design by fiat..must be a better idea?

 

[Serrow225]

Hi
At the moment I've got a full tank of normal fuel,but I've added miller's diesel additive, I'll empty this tank and then try premium with miller's, see what the soot levels are like each run . Looking at my old LP cooler I'm surprised just how badly the engine was behaving with just that amount of soot over the fine filter , it's a bad design by fiat..must be a better idea?

It's a shame fiat didn't think to use a idea from when Yamaha made 2 stroke engines, their power valves on exhaust ports could gum up with carbon so it used to rotate each time engine turned on to clear valve, I'm sure a similar design could have cleared filter in cooler by a servo motor?

 

[Fredastaire]

@Serrow225 I've done some MES testing on a locals twin EGR Ducato, his injectors are out of tolerance erratically, he's now changing to premium diesel and millers; he's coming back in a few weeks and I'll do another data run. Maybe we see a difference maybe we won't.
I'm just happy to have survived at the moment.
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We still need a cure for blocked coolers.....

 

[Serrow225]

@Serrow225 I've done some MES testing on a locals twin EGR Ducato, his injectors are out of tolerance erratically, he's now changing to premium diesel and millers; he's coming back in a few weeks and I'll do another data run. Maybe we see a difference maybe we won't.
I'm just happy to have survived at the moment.
.
We still need a cure for blocked coolers.....

I'm probably way off on this but , I've been under van again and looking at cooler , I had some success cleaning ( old unit )

screen with just brake dust wheel cleaner, so looking at diagram on LP cooler, if it's possible to remove joint at DPF and get enough clearance to fit a cap on pipe and work out exact quantitie of DPF cleaner to fill up cooler( hose fitting and pump in liquid )to just below EGR valve, leave overnight, drain down,flush with clean water , and when dry refit pipe to DPF , I'm wondering could it work?

 

[theoneandonly]

@Serrow225 A few graphs to look at.

My coments: most doing what we would expect. the -2 injector results are spot on . wish mine we like that.
LPEGR -2 appears to be opening and closing as expected. Temperature i would have expected higher but lets see what its like with a few more runs. You did come from very low values. there is engine to engine variation

 

[CheeseMonster]

As I'm driving around in our Comfortmatic my mind gets full of questions... I have effectively 3 driving modes:
1: Auto
2: Auto but with the UP button selected, this uses lower gears both up and down the box. I dislike this in some ways as it is too eager to drop down into second gear.
3: Manual mode where I use the shift indicator.
Mode 3 gives the smoothes gear changes and request/suggest higher gears thus lower revs than option 1 or 2.
So my question is: should/could one of these modes result in less opening of the egr valves and result in less clogging of the egr cooler? When (other than with the engine off) is there no/little exhaust gases returned to the inlet?

 

[Serrow225]

As I'm driving around in our Comfortmatic my mind gets full of questions... I have effectively 3 driving modes:
1: Auto
2: Auto but with the UP button selected, this uses lower gears both up and down the box. I dislike this in some ways as it is too eager to drop down into second gear.
3: Manual mode where I use the shift indicator.
Mode 3 gives the smoothes gear changes and request/suggest higher gears thus lower revs than option 1 or 2.
So my question is: should/could one of these modes result in less opening of the egr valves and result in less clogging of the egr cooler? When (other than with the engine off) is there no/little exhaust gases returned to the inlet?

Hi
The experts on here will have the answer, but I have gone through the same questions.
From the facts in my case ,1st owner missed dealership service and v32 update, so possibly DPF failed on regeneration cycles or fueling started soot entering LP cooler , I bought van with motorhome dealer basic service, 6 months on I get the EML problem, and try all the easy stuff to sort it .. even going manual on gear changing.. but now LP cooler replacement fitted and a few data runs I can see LP EGR working regardless of gear changing when I'm driving.
So I think it's more to try and get the best burn on diesel and less soot ! But I'm a novice still learning

 

[btmama]

Hi all. New to the forum and for that matter, to posting on ANY forum at all.
I was given a link to this forum by my brother and I am hoping to get some up to date information and guidance please.
We have a Hymer Grand Canyon that’s on a 2018 fiat ducato chassis. We seem to have the same or similar issue with limp mode.

Issues started a year ago after an incident of getting stuck in the mud and reviving high while folk were pushing the vehicle out of mud. A short while later check main engine light came on and the limp mode.

Took van to garage who found what they said was an historic code for the EGR but nil else, suggested monitoring it.

Intermittent issue after that so back to garage two more times and I think they replaced a couple of parts but issue remains so they said go to fiat to get diagnosis.

Went to nearest fiat dealer who decided after 5 minutes that we needed new EGR, new DPF and update ECM and TCM and we had to pay £5700 for this. We said no way.

Took van to my brother who’s ex mechanic who found error codes

P0238 turbo sensor
P0236 turbo sensor performance
P0401 egr flow insufficient

And he also found this: “live data does seem to show a lower boost pressure than expected (negative value instead of zero at idle though it does increase in value with engine load as expected)”

The intermittent issue has not resolved so took van recently to a new garage who advised go away and get latest software update from fiat dealer.

So basically I can see years’ worth of knowledge and experience on this forum but I can’t quite follow what the current consensus is regarding what seems to help. Can anyone please point us in the right direction of what we should be doing here? Does the software update seem important? Are there any other parts that seem to need replacing?

In case it isn’t obvious, I am not remotely mechanics savvy so apologies for any idiot questions on my part!

 

[Fredastaire]

@btmama Apologies for the quantity of pages but you do need to have someone read and understand this entire post. I'm the person who started it, I'm still here and surviving the scenario.
It's a 100% must that you buy Multiecuscan from Gendan and secure use of a windows laptop.
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I suspect you are using a budget Fault Code Reader, for our problems they are effectively both useless and misleading. Multiecuscan is the only way forward
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Then begin to investigate AND do a data run to capture a csv file which you can email to @theoneandonly for evaluation.
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It's 99% unheard of to need to replace either of the two EGR units. It's 98% that your LP EGR cooler needs replacing. It's say 5% that injectors are bust, good chance your DPF is cracked but I'm living proof that survival with a damaged DPF is possible. It's 85% that your turbo solenoid is getting sticky, replacement is DIY and should cost £60-95; only buy genuine.
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The help and diagnosis methods are all here in this lengthy post.
.
Where in the world are you?
.

 

[Fredastaire]

@CheeseMonster , I had a chat a year back with a mechanic who for many years had worked for a major major Fiat dealer.
He told me that Comfortmatic is clever in that it learns and remembers your driving habits, then sets up it's gear changes chosen revs/ power.
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They had the service contract for a major delivery company who had Comfortmatic equipped vans. They often had vans returned because of high revs between gear changes. A result of having a driver thrashing a van and it remembering.
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The lesson for us (he said) was to periodically drive in manual a while to reset its memory.
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Separately he recommended to drive a while in manual with 2000 revs to make the engine run clean, (can't remember why).
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Does this help

 

[btmama]

@btmama Apologies for the quantity of pages but you do need to have someone read and understand this entire post. I'm the person who started it, I'm still here and surviving the scenario.
It's a 100% must that you buy Multiecuscan from Gendan and secure use of a windows laptop.
.
I suspect you are using a budget Fault Code Reader, for our problems they are effectively both useless and misleading. Multiecuscan is the only way forward
.
Then begin to investigate AND do a data run to capture a csv file which you can email to @theoneandonly for evaluation.
.
It's 99% unheard of to need to replace either of the two EGR units. It's 98% that your LP EGR cooler needs replacing. It's say 5% that injectors are bust, good chance your DPF is cracked but I'm living proof that survival with a damaged DPF is possible. It's 85% that your turbo solenoid is getting sticky, replacement is DIY and should cost £60-95; only buy genuine.
.
The help and diagnosis methods are all here in this lengthy post.
.
Where in the world are you?
.

Many thanks for your guidance and time. We live in UK in a rural part of the NW

 

[Fredastaire]

@btmama pm just sent

 

[MSjoberg]

@CheeseMonster , I had a chat a year back with a mechanic who for many years had worked for a major major Fiat dealer.
He told me that Comfortmatic is clever in that it learns and remembers your driving habits, then sets up it's gear changes chosen revs/ power.
.
The lesson for us (he said) was to periodically drive in manual a while to reset its memory.
.

I wonder if these statements are proven facts or misunderstandings on behalf on the mechanic (yes, such things do happen)?

It doesn't match what I have studied about the Comfortmatic or my own experiences using it.

 

[theoneandonly]

I know nothing (almost) about comformatics so am not qualified to enter debate.
As to new problems getting Multiecuscan and data here or to me is the first step
version update vital.
to start with easier reading than 48 pages

Ducato twin EGR Engine with P0401 Code (2016 to 2019)

This does not refer to earlier single EGR systems or to later AdBlu SCR engines. Note this is a guide and not definative. It is up to you to make decissions. It is the result of my investigations of data from many contributors and discussion with...

www.fiatforum.com

egr valve replacement very ublikely
LPEGR clean or replacement
DPF replacement: yes in order to get to standard and not looking over shoulder alll the time
Injector replacement? dependent on other tests possible/probable?

 

[CheeseMonster]

I wonder if these statements are proven facts or misunderstandings on behalf on the mechanic (yes, such things do happen)?

It doesn't match what I have studied about the Comfortmatic or my own experiences using it.

I don't believe they have any learning capabilities, I do think they are poorly programmed. But is there a driving style, throttle position and gear selection that reduces the amount the EGR's are open?

 

[MSjoberg]

Took my van out of storage today and did a test run with MES logging (Template 4), and also the exhaust pipe wipe test. I have not had any error codes or limp modes so far, I did this just to find out what the current data looks like. I don't know if it is of interest for someone to compare with other data, but enclose the file just in case. Haven't looked into it much yet, but could at least see that the EGRs seem to be moving and the LPEGR temperature got up to 120 degrees C. The result from the wipe test wasn´t alarming, I think (comparing with images in the FCA 10.023.19 message).

Ducato 2018 2,3/150 with Comfortmatic, soon 33000 km, software version 24 (will try to get an upgrade soon)

 

[Fredastaire]

@MSjoberg the wipe looks promising that your DPF has survived so far. I would recommend that you seek the software upgrade this week without hesitation
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It's clear that there are many owners who don't have damage yet so why risk it happening?

 

[proppb]

Many thanks for your guidance and time. We live in UK in a rural part of the NW

Hi I have just acquired a laptop MEC software and dongle ( we do not have a van yet so not used it in anger) and live in Woodford SK7, if you are close I am more than happy to have a go at scanning your van.

 

[theoneandonly]

DPF temperatures during Regen
Somewhere someone asked about regen temps i cant find the original ref so this is a foot in the sand (not enough for a line).
i have 3 ,600,618,630. V28
2 from fredastaire @ 627,628C V32
unfortunately not a routine measurement