Technical Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next

[aschoots]

Yes habe done nearly 1000km total been. Long trips. Unfortunately my laptop keeps playing up and we ate usually in a hurray to get to the places we are going. No chance to log yet but i think i have sorted out the laptop so my next free weekend ill do a quick local drive and post up.

But no errors or limp mode in these 1000km's?
That is promising already !

Can you share the contact info of the supplier of the modded ECU map?

 

[Poachersmoon]

Its called powergate 3+. You plug the device in, read your ecu ehich tskes almost 1hr.send the file to them and thry modify it with a performance tune upgrade and u can pay for egr off (tein egr model now available) and also a dpf off if you want. I am getting thatbas well and will swap the tune over when i remove the dpf. Keeping in mind i am in nz.

Only real risk is if the egrs arent completely shut ill still have gunk getting into my intake injectors etc. But theybare showing closed last time i looked

 

[aschoots]

Its called powergate 3+. You plug the device in, read your ecu ehich tskes almost 1hr.send the file to them and thry modify it with a performance tune upgrade and u can pay for egr off (tein egr model now available) and also a dpf off if you want. I am getting thatbas well and will swap the tune over when i remove the dpf. Keeping in mind i am in nz.

Only real risk is if the egrs arent completely shut ill still have gunk getting into my intake injectors etc. But theybare showing closed last time i looked

The Powergate 3+ is a programming tool made by Alientech, and Alientech themselves don't modify ECU files.
At what company did you get the (no) twin EGR modification ECU file?

And for us here in Europe / UK removing the DPF is no option as we have to go through MOT (or equivalent) testing every year or so. If too high soot particles are measured you are no longer allowed to drive. Removing / deactivating the EGR(s) is actually also not allowed, but will be very difficult to measure - so worth a gamble.

I want to have the LP-EGR circuit switched off, and leave the 'normal EGR' active.

 

[Poachersmoon]

Keeping in mind with about 20 minutes, you can swap it back (and shouldn't get a fault code for a little while (while they do the test) - maybe.

Who ever sells the powergate 3 locally with you, can request the tuning file. The local place i deal with in New Zealand must deal with Alientech or similar who are supplying the actual modded file - because it is sent away.

If i had the base software / hardware I could probably do it, but it's like $5 - $10k for all that. I used to do tuning and chip tuning for older roms in the early 2000's when car's where much easier to do this.

 

[aschoots]

Yes, read about that. The Powergate device will hold the original ECU file as well as the modded one.
Very nice to use, switch back to original before MOT, and back to modded after that. Great !

I have found local suppliers of the Powergate 3+. Also emailed with Squadra tuning who do quite a bit of FCA car tuning and use the Powergate themselves. They indicated that Alientech does not make ECU modifications.

Can you share the NZ company that supplied you the modded map file?

 

[Poachersmoon]

It was - https://superchips.co.nz/ - Peter

 

[Niko94]

Hello, first of all thanks for the tips and many posts in the forum here. I also have problems with P0401, P0402, P0238. It comes sporadically and quite differently. Sometimes after 15km, sometimes after 80km. I want to keep it short. I got myself Multiecuscan and the necessary OBD adapters. However, I don't quite understand a few things.
Test runs while driving or just when the vehicle is standing?
I've done some tests with different temperatures of the car. Then I created a CSV file like in the tutorial. But some data doesn't show me in the editor? But when I import the file back into the multiecuscan you can see all the files in the diagram again?
Is there a list of right and wrong values? For example, this DPF value is OK, this DPF value is not OK?

 

[Fredastaire]

Welcome to the club.
Can I suggest you simplify test runs, don't try all at once. Graphs will be easier to view.
The tests should be out on the road, engine at temperature and holding a cruise controlled 60mph for say 10-15 minutes.
First do a run looking at LP EGR opening, requested and actual and the EGR temperature. This will quickly show if the cooler is soot blocked.
Next do a run looking at the injectors variances, this should show if you have a good set or any defective.
You also need to check the engine software update, is it a 28 or a 32 or something earlier? Is it a manual or comfortmatic? Is your exhaust silencer tailpipe sooty or spotless?
.
For info it's me who started this post and together with @theoneandonly we have a good idea of what's going on.

 

[theoneandonly]

Amendment: 2.3 twin egr motor tweeks | Tutorial to Measure specific Engine PIDs (Parameter ID) and Save data for analysis.

Template 5 General monitoring Template 7 wide monitoring Template 1. Injector and LPEGR. Monitors Regen if in progress

www.fiatforum.com

Template 5 is a good place to start.
If you have a csv file post it here or pm me and i will create some graphs and hope to make sense of it
There are no black and white good bad limmits the lines are a bit blurred but more data i see the less blurred the evidence is.

 

[Niko94]

First of all, thank you very much for your effort guys!
Fiat Ducato 2.3 150 Multijet from 2019, Manual and 210.000km. Software 28. I'll have to look at the exhaust pipe tomorrow!
If I put too much Infos here in the thread, we can write privat


After 5 minutes error code and emergency run...

The nearest highway is unfortunately 1 hour away from me. So my test track was rather short.
Error message cleared and then drove 30km without any problems. However, I tried to stay at 2000 rpm and 80-90kmh. I had a stutter 1-2 times during the test run. Most of the time, after stuttering, he goes into emergency mode.

I have now selected all characters as in Template 5. When I open CSV file, somehow not everything is displayed. If I paste the file into Multiecuscan, then all the information is there and visible!? I'll just add CSV file. Maybe you can still do something with it.

Here are a few more values...

When the vehicle is switched off...

 

[theoneandonly]

@Niko94 unfortunately the results show you only ran for 3 minutes and the engine is not warm and upto temperature. The important thing to look for is to get engine coolant above 80C and watch the LPegr valve opening in a poor engine it jumps between 0 and 4.7 open to closed with no inbetween values eg 2-3 and low cooler temperature. The 401 and the freeze frame results are typical of a blocked LPEGR cooler. A 10min run after the engine is upto temperature is the minimum to get decent data to confirm a diagnosis.

 

[Niko94]

All right, thanks for the info. Strange, I thought that the engine was at 83 degrees. Anyway, I'm going to do a proper run for the next few days. I'm just skeptical that I won't cause more damage to the car with more and more testruns.

 

[theoneandonly]

The P0401 shows it was 82 second 84 so possibly warm . I dont think you can cause to much more damage as long as you try to do a sensible run and dont just leave it idle.
Use this template for next run

 

[Niko94]

I did another 2 test drives, with cold and warm engine. No warning light or run-flat mode. Again 2-3 times a stutter or a short jerk. From time to time you can also hear a hissing sound like a vehicle without DPF. On my Mercedes W212 you could also hear a similar hissing after DPF removal. As if you could hear the exhaust fumes in the pipes.

 

[Fredastaire]

@Niko94 is it worth doing a recheck of the intercooler pipes? These are (logically) under internal pressure from the turbo. Whilst you are underneath doing a check, have you already dropped the intercooler radiator and flushed it clean? It's an easy job.

 

[Niko94]

@Niko94 is it worth doing a recheck of the intercooler pipes? These are (logically) under internal pressure from the turbo. Whilst you are underneath doing a check, have you already dropped the intercooler radiator and flushed it clean? It's an easy job.

sorry but I don't understand exactly what you mean. Do you think I should do this or are you asking if I have already done this?

 

[Fredastaire]

'hissing' could be an air leak was my thought. As you will need to have the van up on ramps / jack & axlestands to do a full inspection why not remove and clean the intercooler radiator (unless you have already cleaned it in recent times.

 

[Niko94]

The thing is, many components have already had to be cleaned. In April 2023 I had a turbo failure due to a clogged DPF. The entire engine compartment and underbody were smeared with oil. A new turbo was installed, all components were cleaned, and the DPF was also dismantled and cleaned. Then i drove 120 kilometers without any problems, then P0401, P0402, P0238 started. Fiat said EGR valve needs new. EGR replaced, 60 kilometers it was quiet, then the same error messages again only without P0238. Then Fiat said they would have to replace some parts as this was the only way to fix the problem. But I won't start swapping parts on suspicion, how can something like that be called a FIAT PROFESSIONAL!?

The turbo failure happened on vacation in the Balkans. The mechanic's workshop was well stocked. However, of course you don't know how exactly they worked and proceeded. Most skeptical i was about the dpf, is it really "clean" and functional again.
Unfortunately, I'm also weak in the automotive sector. So all I can do is ask and read.
I would simply like to limit the source of the error through you guys and Multiecuscan. The van should be able to cover another 200,000 kilometers

But I could take another look at the vacuum hoses and components such as the throttle valve, intercooler radiator and some sensors and clean them. It certainly wouldn't be wrong.

I also read that a new EGR valve and a new turbo need to be trained. Fiat mechanic said no, training programs like this are not in their system.

 

[CheeseMonster]

The thing is, many components have already had to be cleaned. In April 2023 I had a turbo failure due to a clogged DPF. The entire engine compartment and underbody were smeared with oil. A new turbo was installed, all components were cleaned, and the DPF was also dismantled and cleaned. Then i drove 120 kilometers without any problems, then P0401, P0402, P0238 started. Fiat said EGR valve needs new. EGR replaced, 60 kilometers it was quiet, then the same error messages again only without P0238. Then Fiat said they would have to replace some parts as this was the only way to fix the problem. But I won't start swapping parts on suspicion, how can something like that be called a FIAT PROFESSIONAL!?

The turbo failure happened on vacation in the Balkans. The mechanic's workshop was well stocked. However, of course you don't know how exactly they worked and proceeded. Most skeptical i was about the dpf, is it really "clean" and functional again.
Unfortunately, I'm also weak in the automotive sector. So all I can do is ask and read.
I would simply like to limit the source of the error through you guys and Multiecuscan. The van should be able to cover another 200,000 kilometers

But I could take another look at the vacuum hoses and components such as the throttle valve, intercooler radiator and some sensors and clean them. It certainly wouldn't be wrong.

I also read that a new EGR valve and a new turbo need to be trained. Fiat mechanic said no, training programs like this are not in their system.

If you can hear anything that sounds like an air leak perhaps you should be getting a smoke test done.

 

[Fredastaire]

@Niko94 please can I check your van year / model.
You only mention 'the egr', if your van is our model type there are two EGRs, one visible top front, the other one hidden at the rear, our vans are Euro 6 however without Adblue.
99% mechanics at garages have little or no technical knowledge of our twin EGR version, hence playing guessing games with component changes.