Technical Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next

[BobSlo]

Yes that is correct.

I have different problem now. Dpf is doing its job, but is not doing the regrnerations. Due that the engine is going to leap home mode. It was working OK for about 5000 km after changing DPF and cleaning operation, but then suddenly regenerations stopped. If i do forced regeneration it is OK for around 1000 km and then it goes again. All components after DPF (cooler, EGR….) are spotlesly clean. temertures at DPF are OK. Pressure differental sensor was replaced, hoses were cleaned and have no eak. Lamba sondes are OK……

I am stuck again…

 

[Fredastaire]

If you check at 200km then say at 500km, after forced Regen what level of clogging percentage is it showing? Ie can you see it slowly clogging up? Did you recalibrate the differencial sensor after fitting the new one? If clogging percentage isn't as it should be is it possible you have a split black air pipe to/ from the differencial sensor?

 

[BobSlo]

Percentage of the clogging is a puzzle for me. If you observe the numbers in my case when i count to six it goes up for 0,01 % an so on after each count (in idle stand still). What is strange is that before forced regeneration (with error code on) clogging was around 35%. After regeneration it jumped to 70%. I was in the state of panic and we took the dpf off and checked it. It was virtualy clean (see the pictures). Strange is that after i took out the temperature sensors (i connected them to the car when they were out of the exhaust system, heated them and the parameters of all 3 sensors were exactly the same, boling whater temperature was shown at 99 degrees) when i returned them with ignition on the clogging was at 89%, but when i started the engine it jumped to 59….

The hoses are OK, the differential sensor in idle shows betweeen 7 and 12 mbar

 

[Fredastaire]

In total humble innocence I would replace the pressure sensor and Programm it.
Is there any other sensor for exhaust back pressure?

 

[BobSlo]

I already replaced differential sensor and programed it in as a new one. As far as i know that is the only one. I forgot to say I also replaced injectors…..

 

[theoneandonly]

the regen is a puzzle. the temperature sensors are Ok, what temperature is the DPF getting to, 600c?
The one thing that knaws at me is the Differential pressure sensor even though it has been replaced it reminds me of a Danner scanner utube video that had him chasing around and the problem was a dead replacement sensor. I am aware of one other instance where the pipes were full of water a new sensor and blowing pipes out solved the issue.
You quote the sensor getting 7_12mbar at idle does it get above 20 at 2000rpm

 

[BobSlo]

Because i suspected that the new differential sensor could be faulty as well i replaced it again, but nothing changed. So now i have 3 sensors. I used compressed air to blow out the pipes. I am not sure about dif pressure @2000 RPM I will check it . Maximum temperature values during 20 km drive on highway were pre-cataliser 448, particle filter temperature 439 and after particle filter 415 degrees celsius…

 

[RVi]

I joined this forum when researching Fiat Ducato's about 5 years ago and in the end i purchased a low mileage 2017 2.3l Euro 6. Its now on 63000 miles, all trouble free. Not used the forum much since then but popped up on google when reasearching the egr problem over the weekend.
I learnt about the egr problems from various sources over the years and it seems to be more of a problem as the vans get older and mileage gets higher.
However, i know someone who's 2018 euro 6 Ducato suffered from the egr problem. Went into the dealer for a few weeks and the outcome was many 1000's of pounds to renew egr's, and a few other parts that i can't remember. The dealer tried getting help towards the cost from Fiat and in the end it came to nothing.
He couldnt afford the repair so told them he'd collect the van and have a think what to do.
It was driveable but would go into limp more quite regularly. When he collected the van, one of the workshop technicians told him on the quiet to get the egr vavles mapped out/turned off.

He had this done at a Celtic Tuning dealer along with a new map for a bit more torque. The egr system was turned off (both valves) in the software, luckily the valves were closed so didnt need any blanking plates.
This was a few months ago and hes had no problems since, no eml light and runs perfect.

Now im thinking of getting mine done as a preventative measure.
Most tuning/remapping businesses offer this service.

Watch out! The Euro 6B engine has two egr's and an egr-cooler. That will lead to all kinds of other problems I'm told by a very well known tuner here in the Netherlands. Do you know

 

[November Charlie]

Hi! Been watching this very helpful forum for a while, but now need some help please! Over the last 15 months we’ve experienced the problems listed here — EML coming on, limp mode, limp mode goes off (usually) on restart, EML stays on for a few hundred miles, then turns itself off, then comes back a few hundred miles later. We’ve been to garages in Spain and UK who have just reset the light and suggested a range of problems (Turbo), ERG valves, etc). Van is 2019 Ducato 130bhp with comfortmatic. Problems began at 12,000 miles. Van has now down 18,000. Fuel consumption is around 25-26mpg, which feels poor, and exhaust pipe is thick with black soot (especially compared to my 2010 Audi A4 3.0tdi with 145000 which has spotless exhaust pipe!).
Motorhome dealer is perplexed and agreed we should take the van to a Fiat Professional dealer, but they will only look at it when the EML is on - finally got it to come on today (PO401 this time). Visited the Fiat dealer who insist there is no v.32 of the engine management software and that there is no Service News related to this issue (so I’ve printed a copy of 023.19 to give to them - thanks for posting that here)
Van is booked for an investigation next week but I’m not very hopeful based on the above…. Can anyone tell me of a dealer who has accepted that software updates exist? Any other advice that I could usefully show the dealer (other than a link to this forum!)?
Thanks

 

[CheeseMonster]

Hi! Been watching this very helpful forum for a while, but now need some help please! Over the last 15 months we’ve experienced the problems listed here — EML coming on, limp mode, limp mode goes off (usually) on restart, EML stays on for a few hundred miles, then turns itself off, then comes back a few hundred miles later. We’ve been to garages in Spain and UK who have just reset the light and suggested a range of problems (Turbo), ERG valves, etc). Van is 2019 Ducato 130bhp with comfortmatic. Problems began at 12,000 miles. Van has now down 18,000. Fuel consumption is around 25-26mpg, which feels poor, and exhaust pipe is thick with black soot (especially compared to my 2010 Audi A4 3.0tdi with 145000 which has spotless exhaust pipe!).
Motorhome dealer is perplexed and agreed we should take the van to a Fiat Professional dealer, but they will only look at it when the EML is on - finally got it to come on today (PO401 this time). Visited the Fiat dealer who insist there is no v.32 of the engine management software and that there is no Service News related to this issue (so I’ve printed a copy of 023.19 to give to them - thanks for posting that here)
Van is booked for an investigation next week but I’m not very hopeful based on the above…. Can anyone tell me of a dealer who has accepted that software updates exist? Any other advice that I could usefully show the dealer (other than a link to this forum!)?
Thanks

I had our vans (twin egr comfortmatic) software updated to v32 at Adams Morey Bournemouth early January 2023.

 

[CraigAR]

Hi CheeseMonster
Do you know what the v32 software dose in the sense of the EGR issue. My local Fiat service centre said yep we can do that it will be £117 which I thought was ok

 

[CheeseMonster]

Hi Charlie do you know what the v32 software dose in the sense of the EGR issue. My local Fiat service centre said yep we can do that it will be £117 which I thought was ok

I paid nothing. It's a Fiat fix.

 

[CraigAR]

I paid nothing. It's a Fiat fix.

Interesting. Maybe because mine does not have the EML on so they want to charge me. Or they are ripping me off. I may get onto them about the charge. and they want the van for the whole day to upgrade the software

 

[CheeseMonster]

Interesting. Maybe because mine does not have the EML on so they want to charge me. Or they are ripping me off. I may get onto them about the charge. and they want the van for the whole day to upgrade the software

I had no EML or problems.

By pre arrangement I took my van to Adams Morey. I had purchased Multiecuscan and new our vans software version and that although serviced by them was behind in its updates. The update took less than an hour. Part of this time was getting a charger that would maintain the battery at a voltage suitable for the update to upload.

Steve behind the service desk was very helpful, I was given a pre and post update printout of the vans software condition on completion.

 

[CheeseMonster]

Our van had suffered flat spots since new, it was like the throttle pedal wasn't connected. After reading this forum I started using Millers fuel additive, bought from Halfords. Since then I have not suffered any signs of a flat spot in a 1000 miles. Coincidence or what???

 

[theoneandonly]

Hi! Been watching this very helpful forum for a while, but now need some help please! Over the last 15 months we’ve experienced the problems listed here — EML coming on, limp mode, limp mode goes off (usually) on restart, EML stays on for a few hundred miles, then turns itself off, then comes back a few hundred miles later. We’ve been to garages in Spain and UK who have just reset the light and suggested a range of problems (Turbo), ERG valves, etc). Van is 2019 Ducato 130bhp with comfortmatic. Problems began at 12,000 miles. Van has now down 18,000. Fuel consumption is around 25-26mpg, which feels poor, and exhaust pipe is thick with black soot (especially compared to my 2010 Audi A4 3.0tdi with 145000 which has spotless exhaust pipe!).
Motorhome dealer is perplexed and agreed we should take the van to a Fiat Professional dealer, but they will only look at it when the EML is on - finally got it to come on today (PO401 this time). Visited the Fiat dealer who insist there is no v.32 of the engine management software and that there is no Service News related to this issue (so I’ve printed a copy of 023.19 to give to them - thanks for posting that here)
Van is booked for an investigation next week but I’m not very hopeful based on the above…. Can anyone tell me of a dealer who has accepted that software updates exist? Any other advice that I could usefully show the dealer (other than a link to this forum!)?
Thanks

if you haven't all ready read this

Ducato twin EGR Engine with P0401 Code (2016 to 2019)

This does not refer to earlier single EGR systems or to later AdBlu SCR engines. Note this is a guide and not definative. It is up to you to make decissions. It is the result of my investigations of data from many contributors and discussion with...

www.fiatforum.com

This dealer is one to walk away from find another, they obviously have no idea or interest.
Your black exhaust is indicative of overfuelling unfortunately you have been fobbed of more than once with an engine that has needed real attention for a while. I suggest you get a Copy of Multiecuscan and collect some data and knowledge so you can at least talk to another dealer with a degree of knowledge of what might be happening and not being bulshitted by someone who doesnt want to do the job.

 

[theoneandonly]

My local Fiat service centre said yep we can do that it will be £117 which I thought was ok

If you had a problem then i think updates are free, to be updated at user request i have heard of a number flatly refuse and one charge £250 I recently asked for quote for a cambelt change and update, ( £30 shy of £1000, well update would be about an hour) Previously had 2 updates not only free of charge i didn't know they'ed been done.

 

[CraigAR]

If you had a problem then i think updates are free, to be updated at user request i have heard of a number flatly refuse and one charge £250 I recently asked for quote for a cambelt change and update, ( £30 shy of £1000, well update would be about an hour) Previously had 2 updates not only free of charge i didn't know they'ed been done.

Is there any point in updating to v32 if there are no issues at present ?

 

[November Charlie]

if you haven't all ready read this

Ducato twin EGR Engine with P0401 Code (2016 to 2019)

This does not refer to earlier single EGR systems or to later AdBlu SCR engines. Note this is a guide and not definative. It is up to you to make decissions. It is the result of my investigations of data from many contributors and discussion with...

www.fiatforum.com

This dealer is one to walk away from find another, they obviously have no idea or interest.
Your black exhaust is indicative of overfuelling unfortunately you have been fobbed of more than once with an engine that has needed real attention for a while. I suggest you get a Copy of Multiecuscan and collect some data and knowledge so you can at least talk to another dealer with a degree of knowledge of what might be happening and not being bulshitted by someone who doesnt want to do the job.

@theoneandonly - this is amazingly comprehensive and helpful - way beyond my technical understanding or mechanical competence sadly, but great work.
One thing I note is the comment ‘The 401 error always coincides with a large demand and inability to deliver it’. Last summer we drove over the Puerto Santa Ines in Northern Spain (1755m) in a reasonably heavily loaded ‘van with no problem whatsoever. Coming down the other side, on the overrun, the EML came on…. (I didn’t have a OBD2 reader then so don’t know what code it threw). Today the EML came on and threw a PO401 when travelling lightly laden on a flat road at constant speed. Other times the van has been under load when the EML has come on and has gone into limp mode, but it’s not consistent. I mention it purely because your research is clearly based on a wide mix of experiences and it might (or might not!) be useful to hear other experiences.
I’ll look into the scanning tool you mention - sadly it appears to need a windows device and the thought of that brings me out in a cold sweat!
Thanks to everyone who has responded. I’ll let you know where I get.

 

[theoneandonly]

Is there any point in updating to v32 if there are no issues at present ?

Short answer I don't know catagorically. depends on what version you have, before 28 and i'll say yes. (2017engine) I was updated to 28 within 2300 miles ie "new" March 2019. still very low miles 8000 (but wife is retiring April so may start getting a few miles on at last.) so my engine is good and permamently monitored. We do not know the real changes between the versions. V32 existed sept 2019 if not earlier. So i may be lucky and have got an acceptable Version, or V32 may be the only acceptable version or its the version that brings dirty engines back into line? It is the last version produced for these engines. (A member had his van refurbed the second time at end of last year with Fiat Italy technician overseeing and he still has V32.)

The demand comment is related to the data itself and not neccissarily due to load demand. @Fredastaire i think states that most (if not all) P0401s come on with a foot throttle backed off (no gas). always useful to hear other experiences. And get whatever data i can.
I think monitoring with MES is the crux of control as is monitoring the exhaust pipe. Injector vigilance with these motors is vital, bringing me to regular injector cleaner dosing or additive use (not excessive as this in itself can cause issues).