Technical Battery warning light and no power steering

[Arvid]

Could well be related. I have a small list of "to-do" for tomorrow. Weather is supposed to be good after this evenings storm so out we go

Really appreciate your logic thinking. Has made me rethink it all.

 

[bugsymike]

It may be irrelevant, but could a CanBus issue cause the problem.
I am trying to locate a fault on a 2010 Doblo Maxi and am trying to learn more, I have measured CanBus voltages and ohm readings using a break out box at the obd plug, but to go any further in locating Can Bus error issues needs a at least a two channel auto oscilloscope and more knowledge than I currently have.
This can be a break in the twisted pair of wires that are used to send control signals to other components, however if a break is found it has to be repaired in a way like original to protect the signal integrity.
They can be found in many places in modern wiring, such as breaks at door or boot hinge areas, but have a 120ohm resister at each terminating ecu in a circuit so if functioning you can get a 60 ohm test reading.
Sorry if this is adding to the confusion, just if when working on the vehicle you cam across any damaged /broken pairs of wires it may be worth looking at.

 

[Arvid]

I had U1602 Can Line Error when we first scanned. At first I thought it might mean something but it cleared and has not come back after days of driving so I have left it alone. The car is practically untouched by human hands since new - regarding service that is. It's the most neglected car I have seen in a while. Inside and out it looks good but service history tells the tale. 108000 miles - 4 oil changes,two front coil springs and brake pads. That's what it got since 2009. Even the cam belt was original although a swap was strongly recommended at the 5-year expired warranty check in 2014. It's been puddling along local roads by an owner that didn't worry at all. So everything I open looks fresh and factory installed. I have not seen any damaged wires so far other than the burnt connector for cabin fan but always on the lookout when I work on it.

 

[koalar]

I had U1602 Can Line Error when we first scanned. At first I thought it might mean something but it cleared and has not come back after days of driving so I have left it alone.

Correct I just ignore it

Some car do some don’t but if you scan three or four cars one will have a U160? Code stored

The vast majority are running fine

Help with U1602 can line error - Multiecuscan

Seems to turn up a lot while working on other faults. Might even be caused by the scanner itself.

 

[Arvid]

Todays findings are :

- Start engine,fan blower,rear screen heat,seat heat on - D+ measures 13.35v
- Ignition off - D+ measures 0v
- Ignition on - D+ measures 9.5v
- Installed alternator is a Hella 8EL-011710-701 (as suspected)

There are two things about this I don't know the answer to :
- Is the 9.5v voltage on D+ with ignition on correct ??
- Is the Hella ok for this installation or must it be an original Denso ??

 

[koalar]

Todays findings are :

- Start engine,fan blower,rear screen heat,seat heat on - D+ measures 13.35v

Correct

- Ignition off - D+ measures 0v

Correct

- Ignition on - D+ measures 9.5v

Doesn’t sound right. I don’t have this car to check. I would expect to see battery voltage or battery voltage or maybe half a volt below.

- Installed alternator is a Hella 8EL-011710-701 (as suspected)

Don’t know I will see if I can find out

There are two things about this I don't know the answer to :
- Is the 9.5v voltage on D+ with ignition on correct ??

I can’t be certain but it’s lower than I expected

- Is the Hella ok for this installation or must it be an original Denso ??

It doesn’t have to Denso going to check if the alternator is comparable

 

[Arvid]

This is what eLearn says :

• Connect an Examiner in Voltmeter mode with the positive terminal to terminal D+ of the alternator and the negative earthed
• With the ignition on, ensure that the measured voltage is less than 5.5 Volt and that the generator warning light on the panel is on
• If the voltage is interrupted, the alternator is inefficient and should be replaced
• Start the engine and check, with voltage D+ greater than 5.5 Volt, that the generator warning light on the panel goes off and a correct battery recharging indication is displayed.

Seems something is not right....

 

[Arvid]

Checked the D+ voltage again - need to be sure. It measures aprox.9.5v with ignition on,no doubt about it.

But,I measure this in the connector under fuse panel besides battery - not on D+ terminal on alternator. Should be same result as the wire in the connector goes directly to D+.

 

[koalar]

Checked the D+ voltage again - need to be sure. It measures aprox.9.5v with ignition on,no doubt about it.

But,I measure this in the connector under fuse panel besides battery - not on D+ terminal on alternator. Should be same result as the wire in the connector goes directly to D+.

Is that at the D04 connector

What colour cable

 

[Arvid]

Is that at the D04 connector

What colour cable

Yes,D04 connector. Gray with black stripe wire.

 

[koalar]

Yes,D04 connector. Gray with black stripe wire.

Great if you split the connector
What voltage do you get coming from the body computer side (ignition on)

What voltage from the alternator side

I would expect battery voltage and zero

 

[Arvid]

I opted not to split the connector since I didn't know what the three other wires do or goes to. Don't want to make any more waves in the water... I can split it and measure again.

 

[koalar]

I opted not to split the connector since I didn't know what the three other wires do or goes to. Don't want to make any more waves in the water... I can split it and measure again.

Grey and black is great as it matches the circuit diagram

Split the connector or better still unbolt the D+ of the Alternator and measure here

I was trying to avoid clambering under the car

 

[Arvid]

Ok,so with connector open I measure 9.8v (light off now,not before) on the wire from pin 25 BCM - and 0v on wire from D+. As you say it should be close or equal to battery voltage as per eLearn. What does this add up to ? Where is the power to BCM fed from ? Fuse or maybe a relay ?

 

[aschiuta]

Is that at the D04 connector

What colour cable

This is from my Bravo 1.6 mjet 88 kW from 2009. there is the original 120A A I dont know what producer.
However strange things when I do measure the voltages.
I presume this is the D4 ( it have two wires that came with thick cable from alternator ) connector so open it and start the engine. Everyting was ok no battery warning light on. Measured voltage on battery = 14.2 volts.
The electrical steering works.
Strange because I was expected the alternator not start to produce electricity.
On blue wire on female part of connector 14,2 v same voltages as + terminal of battery. On blue wire male connector 13,7volts.
On white wire 0.05 volts to negative battery terminal.
Stop engine ,key off, measured the resistence of the two wires from male connector to negative batt terminal ( earth ). No link between the two wires and earth.
So put the ignition on ,engine not start 0 volts on both blue and white cable from male ( presume one of this wire is from D+ alternator terminal.
On female connector 12.2 volts on blue wire ,0 volts on white wire. My battery is pretty old.
Key off, connect both parts of D4 connector, key on without engine starting 12,1 volts on blue wire and 0 volts on white one. Alternator warning light on.
Start engine and 13,8 volts on blue, 0 volts on white everythink ok, no warning light, steering works.
So the conclusion is the things dont works as described in eLearn.
Also I presume the excitation of the alternator rotor came somehow from inside the alternator, or exist ( in my case ) another wire which brings the excitation voltage to the regulator from alternator.

 

[koalar]

Ok,so with connector open I measure 9.8v (light off now,not before) on the wire from pin 25 BCM - and 0v on wire from D+. As you say it should be close or equal to battery voltage as per eLearn. What does this add up to ? Where is the power to BCM fed from ? Fuse or maybe a relay ?

I got someone here with me at the moment. I can’t think straight about this and hold a conversation.

We certainly need to check continuity between the D+ on the alternator and the now open connector

 

[koalar]

This is from my Bravo 1.6 mjet 88 kW from 2009. there is the original 120A A I dont know what producer.
However strange things when I do measure the voltages.
I presume this is the D4 ( it have two wires that came with thick cable from alternator ) connector so open it and start the engine. Everyting was ok no battery warning light on. Measured voltage on battery = 14.2 volts.
The electrical steering works.
Strange because I was expected the alternator not start to produce electricity.
On blue wire on female part of connector 14,2 v same voltages as + terminal of battery. On blue wire male connector 13,7volts.
On white wire 0.05 volts to negative battery terminal.
Stop engine ,key off, measured the resistence of the two wires from male connector to negative batt terminal ( earth ). No link between the two wires and earth.
So put the ignition on ,engine not start 0 volts on both blue and white cable from male ( presume one of this wire is from D+ alternator terminal.
On female connector 12.2 volts on blue wire ,0 volts on white wire. My battery is pretty old.
Key off, connect both parts of D4 connector, key on without engine starting 12,1 volts on blue wire and 0 volts on white one. Alternator warning light on.
Start engine and 13,8 volts on blue, 0 volts on white everythink ok, no warning light, steering works.
So the conclusion is the things dont works as described in eLearn.
Also I presume the excitation of the alternator rotor came somehow from inside the alternator, or exist ( in my case ) another wire which brings the excitation voltage to the regulator from alternator.

View attachment 418830

Thanks

Wrong connector

Follow the main wires out of the fuse box.

Should look more like this with a grey and black wire both sides

 

[koalar]

Ok,so with connector open I measure 9.8v (light off now,not before) on the wire from pin 25 BCM - and 0v on wire from D+. As you say it should be close or equal to battery voltage as per eLearn. What does this add up to ? Where is the power to BCM fed from ? Fuse or maybe a relay ?

With the connector open are any lights on the dash such as engine check light or door open.

 

[aschiuta]

Thanks

Wrong connector

Follow the main wires out of the fuse box.

Should look more like this with a grey and black wire both sides

It can be true but my bravo have 1.6 mjet engine and it is not described into eLearn.
Also I dont see any other wires that came from alternator.
However after elearn if the D+ M001 pin 25 is open connection then the alternator dont have excitation to start.

 

[Arvid]

With the connector open are any lights on the dash such as engine check light or door open.

I will check in a bit. Just needs to get some groceries and do some erands first