Technical Battery warning light and no power steering

[Arvid]

That is one of the puzzles. There is only one code present - 0683 Preheat control unit which I believe is unrelated. No other codes. This is why I’m starting to think the BCM is at fault.

There are some repair shops in the UK. Some reprograms or clones the units,others repair them. I’ve sent a few emails and eager to hear what they can offer

 

[koalar]

Mmmm

Don’t have a bravo, never owned a bravo, never worked in a bravo so not sure how much help I can be

Plus it’s twice as difficult when it’s already been messed with

But I don’t think any amount of fiddling with software will fix this problem

Let have a recap

You have three error all related to high power items

Alternator
Power Steering
Glow plugs

Did they

A all fail at once
B all fail one at a time
C unknown

A Power steering light isn’t working but lights not on.

A Does motor have power and GBD
B Also same for the EPS logic
C Can software interrogate the EPS



Alternator
The battery warning light is driven via D+ And the body computer. Above 5.5V the light should be off

A light is on fully all the time ign on
B light still glows key removed
C light on then glows when started

I assume you have easy access to

A multimeter and multiECUscan is this correct

Probably best to start from the beginning

 

[Arvid]

Mmmm

Don’t have a bravo, never owned a bravo, never worked in a bravo so not sure how much help I can be

Plus it’s twice as difficult when it’s already been messed with

But I don’t think any amount of fiddling with software will fix this problem

Let have a recap

You have three error all related to high power items

Alternator
Power Steering
Glow plugs

Did they

A all fail at once
B all fail one at a time
C unknown

A Power steering light isn’t working but lights not on.

A Does motor have power and GBD
B Also same for the EPS logic
C Can software interrogate the EPS



Alternator
The battery warning light is driven via D+ And the body computer. Above 5.5V the light should be off

A light is on fully all the time ign on
B light still glows key removed
C light on then glows when started

I assume you have easy access to

A multimeter and multiECUscan is this correct

Probably best to start from the beginning

Hi and thanks for chiming in

I bought the car three weeks ago with all its faults and blemishes so I really can't tell how and when the faults came about. All I know is that the loss of power steering was first intermittent a long period and then permanent. It happened over a period of a few years. According to receipts it first happened back in 2016 and has been ongoing since that.

You are correct,all present faults are power related and I can understand the conclusion of the Fiat garage that servied the car. It usually is an alternator and/or battery-/earth issue when this fault appears. What I have done so far is to establish that D+ is actually measuring correct voltage and is complete fra D+ terminal on alternator and into BCM pin 25. It measures fine with 13.8v all the way. Same BCM connector also has its two earth points on pin 5 and 6 intact and working.

- Power steering is not working and no power steering warning light
- Multiecuscan can connect to power steering module and no fault codes present
- Only present warning light is the alternator warning light.
- Only present error code is 0683 Preheating control unit
- Alternator warning light is constantly on - off when key removed.
- D+ measures 13.8v all the way from alternator,through connector under fuse terminal battery and into BCM connector pin 25.
- Main earth engine/chassis is replaced with new cable
- PS motor main connector has battery voltage and good earth.
- Alternator is reasonably fresh from 2018 and charge voltage is a good 14.4-14,5v at idle. New quality battery 74Ah.
- Previous owner tried disconnecting BCM connectors as a test and alternator light went out and PS worked again.

Yes,I have Multiecuscan and multimeter. I'm a novice with the scan tool but has luckily help from an experienced user so we should be able to tackle it.

 

[koalar]

Are you sure about B1020 error

Codes are specific to model

Croma for example B1020 refers to the headlight adjustment

Any evidence of the scuttle area ever been flooded

Not sure the best way to tackle this as it’s impossible to tell what’s been done or messed with

 

[koalar]

Hi and thanks for chiming in

I bought the car three weeks ago with all its faults and blemishes so I really can't tell how and when the faults came about. All I know is that the loss of power steering was first intermittent a long period and then permanent. It happened over a period of a few years. According to receipts it first happened back in 2016 and has been ongoing since that.

Going to ignore the EPS for now as we know the other faults were already present before this one failed

You are correct,all present faults are power related and I can understand the conclusion of the Fiat garage that servied the car. It usually is an alternator and/or battery-/earth issue when this fault appears. What I have done so far is to establish that D+ is actually measuring correct voltage and is complete fra D+ terminal on alternator and into BCM pin 25. It measures fine with 13.8v all the way. Same BCM

Not checked the wiring yet but sounds like you have made good progress

connector also has its two earth points on pin 5 and 6 intact and working.

- Power steering is not working and no power steering warning light

Odd

- Multiecuscan can connect to power steering module and no fault codes present

Strange

- Only present warning light is the alternator warning light.

Great. Strange no EPS it’s almost unheard of for the EPS to. Be not working, no warning light and no error code logged

- Only present error code is 0683 Preheating control unit

Might be worth starting here ? Hard code,

- Alternator warning light is constantly on - off when key removed.

Great unlikely to be the common dash fault of dim glowing warning lights. So something ticked of the list

- D+ measures 13.8v all the way from alternator,through connector under fuse terminal battery and into BCM connector pin 25.

Great not sure why the lights on though

- Main earth engine/chassis is replaced with new cable

Great

- PS motor main connector has battery voltage and good earth.

Great

- Alternator is reasonably fresh from 2018 and charge voltage is a good 14.4-14,5v at idle. New quality battery 74Ah.

Great a little high they are normally 14.1V but acceptable.

- Previous owner tried disconnecting BCM connectors as a test and alternator light went out and PS worked again.

Yes,I have Multiecuscan and multimeter. I'm a novice with the scan tool but has luckily help from an experienced user so we should be able to tackle it.

Great

 

[Arvid]

Yes,the B1020 was present at first scan but has not reappeared after delete. It's a logic code as it telling for what fault I experience but it's strange it has not reappeared. Two other codes - U1600 and U1602 - was also present but not reappeared.

There has not been done many attempts to solve this by previous owner. He sort of gave up when garage fitted yet another alternator in 2018. After that the car was used on and off before parked sometime in 2020/21. Son in law fiddled with the BCM and visited another garage for advice but was tol "most likely a BCM fault".

Here my story with the car begins and we have tried what's mentioned in the thread so far. The scuttle area may have been flooded for all I know as the car has not been well looked after or regularly cleaned. I see no signs of it though,no water or moist inside the car.

Are there any areas I should check for water ingress ? BCM and fuse terminal looked dry and clean inside.

 

[Arvid]

Can also add that previous owner experienced a few times the alternator warning light go out and PS working. It rarely happened but was related to the couple of times he recharged the battery and connected it to the car. PS worked for a little while before warning light came back and PS loss. I have not been able to replicate it though.

Are the Preheat unit prone to fail or will the 0683 code also appear when glow plugs are failing ??

 

[koalar]

my gut feeling is a damaged or broken wire or wrong part fitted

I suspect the body computer has detected a fault with the charging and had shut down the EPS to conserve power, so these two are directly connected. That’s how it should work in my head.

Trying to figure out things to check. Without going in circles like a headless chicken


Leave it with me for a few minutes

 

[Arvid]

Thank you I have wondered if the alternator is the correct one but as long as it's fitted by a Fiat garage I gave it a pass. Don't know what type it is other than it's a powerful one - 120A. I think that is correct for cold climate versions.

I did find other threads on this forum related to wrong type or rebuilt alternators fitted which gave alternator warning light. Made me wonder... And I can assure you I have done the headless chicken walk around this car several times already. It's too easy to dig into a pit and not able to see over the edge.

 

[koalar]

Thank you I have wondered if the alternator is the correct one but as long as it's fitted by a Fiat garage I gave it a pass. Don't know what type it is other than it's a powerful one - 120A. I think that is correct for cold climate versions.

I did find other threads on this forum related to wrong type or rebuilt alternators fitted which gave alternator warning light. Made me wonder...

There two type

D+ is just an exciter

D+ Is an exciter and controls the charging via the body

They look the same except for the numbers on the label

 

[koalar]

You can ignore U1600 and U1602 they crop up fairly often disconnecting batteries and are rarely a genuine problem

 

[Arvid]

Aha !! Well I wouldn't be surpriced if it's the wrong alternator installed. I will put my dentist mirror to use in the morning and see what the label says.

 

[aschiuta]

Thank you I have wondered if the alternator is the correct one but as long as it's fitted by a Fiat garage I gave it a pass. Don't know what type it is other than it's a powerful one - 120A. I think that is correct for cold climate versions.

I did find other threads on this forum related to wrong type or rebuilt alternators fitted which gave alternator warning light. Made me wonder... And I can assure you I have done the headless chicken walk around this car several times already. It's too easy to dig into a pit and not able to see over the edge.

Check also the earth electrical connection between chasis and gearbox or engine.

 

[Arvid]

Check also the earth electrical connection between chasis and gearbox or engine.

I've changed it as a precaution. Made new one from 25mm2 (4 gauge) and new cable shoes/lug. The end at gearbox was coroded both inside and out so I thought I was on to something - but no...

 

[Arvid]

There two type

D+ is just an exciter

D+ Is an exciter and controls the charging via the body

They look the same except for the numbers on the label

This was interesting. Do you know what the label should say ?

 

[koalar]

This was interesting. Do you know what the label should say ?

No but google should be able to confirm if it right for a bravo

Reading through the thread again.

The original owner disconnected the body computer and the EPS worked

This is correct symptom for a broken D+ wire

We know

There is voltage at pin 25 however we don’t know if that’s from the body computer or from the alternator

The it’s not always necessary for the exciter to present for the alternator to start working. We could have the alternator giving voltage at one end of the cable and the body computer giving voltage at the other

It would be better to disconnect the smaller wire off the alternator and check for 0V ignition off and battery voltage ignition on

You could do the same by disconnecting D04 connector

 

[Arvid]

Thanks,You are right. I will try that.

As correct alternator may be important I did some digging and there are two OEM alternators offered. From 2007 to 2012 Fiat used Denso MS1012101870 and 2012-2014 Denso 63321859. Both 120A as for cold climate.

Knowing my local Fiat garage they buy parts from the largest professional part supplier and not via the official Fiat network. This is purely caused by delivery times. 1 day vs 1 week means money. That means my car has a non-OEM alternator which would be either Bosch 0986049400090 or Hella 8EL011710701. Wonder if that will work as there as several stories about non-OEM parts and alternator warning light...

 

[koalar]

Thanks,You are right. I will try that.

As correct alternator may be important I did some digging and there are two OEM alternators offered. From 2007 to 2012 Fiat used Denso MS1012101870 and 2012-2014 Denso 63321859. Both 120A as for cold climate.

Knowing my local Fiat garage they buy parts from the largest professional part supplier and not via the official Fiat network. This is purely caused by delivery times. 1 day vs 1 week means money. That means my car has a non-OEM alternator which would be either Bosch 0986049400090 or Hella 8EL011710701. Wonder if that will work as there as several stories about non-OEM parts and alternator warning light...

That the problem when someone else has already starts a job

If we ignore everything and we pretend we are starting from scratch

battery light on.

We would measure the battery resting voltage,
Check the aux belt
start the car and measure the charge voltage.
Then put on the lights and rear screen and measure D+.
Assuming all that was correct the next step would be to disconnect the D+ lead and check that it’s 0V and battery voltage can be controlled by the body computer

 

[Arvid]

Sure will check this first thing tomorrow. This has sparked new motivation

 

[koalar]

Just to give you some more incentive

This one is almost identical to yours. Has 12 to 14V at the body computer but is in fact a broken wire

Alternator charging light | FIAT Stilo

I believe I have deleted all my Stilo pictures now but if you do a search you may find a post i did on the D4, way back in history which probably had a few pics Rather than split the connector just back probe the connector on either side and check for continuity ( a lot less drastic:)) The...

www.fiatforum.com

https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/alternator-charging-light.488929/post-4608572

Yours may or may not be the same, but at least there’s hope