Technical 57 1.2 Eleganza - Jerking/kangarooing/flat spot

[Honda Owner]

... husband is on the Honda Accord Owners Club one.

Oh dear, that's the forum for grumpy Accord owners... get him to join the far superior and friendlier TypeAccord forum instead!

 

[varesecrazy]

I really wasn't suggesting that people only bought Pandas due to restricted funds... I'd have to be pretty daft to come here and offend people when I'm looking for help! But my apologies if that's how it came across.

People buy new cars for different uses... a 'large barge' would normally be the preferred choice for drivers (or company fleet buyers) who spend a lot of time cruising motorways and racking up a high mileage. In contrast, (despite the high mileage examples given, which I would expect to be a minority) I am fairly certain that the smallish 1.2 Dualogic Panda was bought as a new car by people who didn't intend to be frequently driving long distances, or intended to use it as an economical second car?

Hence my original point about the ECU learning causing such a problem when a 1.2 Dualogic Panda gets low usage/short journeys... as said, I would have thought such use would be reasonably common and should have been expected by Fiat, who should therefore have programmed it to cope? From several responses that this thread has received, it DOES seem to be a problem for many owners.

hi again,
IF the car is still misbehaving,
I'm only@ 30 mins from the car, and am happy to come over with my "entry level -MES" to appraise the car,

I've driven pretty much ALL of the options..,

own a panda, drive an Idea duologic, and bought a panda duologic@ 4 years ago too,

do a fair bit of FIAT servicing too - hence the MES

charlie - Didcot

 

[Honda Owner]

hi again,
IF the car is still misbehaving,
I'm only@ 30 mins from the car, and am happy to come over with my "entry level -MES" to appraise the car,

I've driven pretty much ALL of the options..,

own a panda, drive an Idea duologic, and bought a panda duologic@ 4 years ago too,

do a fair bit of FIAT servicing too - hence the MES

charlie - Didcot

Hi Charlie

That's a really generous offer... I'll let him know. Personally I'd rather trust someone like you who's actually done this reset previously, rather than a new-ish garage who may actually have a more limited experience.

Does this forum have a capability to sent personal messages so we can exchange email addresses? Sorry to ask before actually looking, but I'm just hurrying to get out of the house and my wife is looking a bit 'stressed' by me sitting here typing!

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Does this forum have a capability to sent personal messages so we can exchange email addresses? Sorry to ask before actually looking, but I'm just hurrying to get out of the house and my wife is looking a bit 'stressed' by me sitting here typing!

If you click on his username, a box should drop down and PM should be the 2nd option

 

[Honda Owner]

Hi Charlie

That's a really generous offer... I'll let him know. Personally I'd rather trust someone like you who's actually done this reset previously, rather than a new-ish garage who may actually have a more limited experience.

Does this forum have a capability to sent personal messages so we can exchange email addresses? Sorry to ask before actually looking, but I'm just hurrying to get out of the house and my wife is looking a bit 'stressed' by me sitting here typing!

PM now sent.

 

[Honda Owner]

...To check if the gearbox has learnt bad habits take the car to a slight incline and try and hold on the incline with throttle. If the clutch is calibrated you should be able to do it. If not the clutch will come in and out which gives the kangeroo effect...

My father has now performed this test. He was unable to hold the car still using the throttle... the car 'kangarooed' uncontrollably and also stalled.

We are now hoping that having the transmission ECU reset will at least make his car reasonably smooth again!

 

[bob1969]

You can check with hand brake as well. My partners one does it when it falls out of calibration. A reset should cure it. To stop ot happening again you must learn to balance the car just using the throttle and trust the electronics. I must confess it is the lightest touch of the throttle.

 

[varesecrazy]

My father has now performed this test. He was unable to hold the car still using the throttle... the car 'kangarooed' uncontrollably and also stalled.

We are now hoping that having the transmission ECU reset will at least make his car reasonably smooth again!

the MES recalibrations require min Engine Temp. of 80'C,

so just as easy to drive somewhere,

Charlie

 

[Honda Owner]

the MES recalibrations require min Engine Temp. of 80'C,

so just as easy to drive somewhere,

Charlie

Hi Charlie,

I sent you a PM a few days ago about taking you up on your kind offer to do this for my father... by the time he drives to your house I guess the engine will be fully warmed up.

If you could PM me your email address then I can pass it to him so he can get in touch with you directly to agree what time suits you best.

Thanks,
Jon

 

[varesecrazy]

PM sent

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

the MES recalibrations require min Engine Temp. of 80'C

Interesting, I never remember seeing that when I done mine

 

[varesecrazy]

Update,
MES found 2 x stored fault codes;

P0560 - Battery voltage = 7V - from a failed battery previously

P1754 - Loads

cleared these, - no obvious effect,
so did the re-calibrations , NOT the Clutch purge.

car appeared Slightly improved, but still VERY jerky on a gentle take-off,
better if you used more throttle..but not good enough for "manouvreing".

so removed the "baking tray" ( protective cover) from front of g-box to check fluid level


no obvious sign of ANY fluid,
shone a torch to Illuminate the reservoir,
tried dipping..( impaired by plastic inner baffle:bang

no luck,
so didn't dare use the PURGE facility.. or risk of drawing more air could spell disaster

so until we get some of the correct fluid.. we are at the same point,

any tips on the post refill procedures,

 

[bob1969]

I think you do end of line/service on MES this does purge the clutch of air and calibrates the clutch travel. Theres no others i can think of. I would not drive it until the the fluid is topped up, but then again how long has it been like it?

 

[varesecrazy]

I think you do end of line/service on MES this does purge the clutch of air and calibrates the clutch travel. Theres no others i can think of. I would not drive it until the the fluid is topped up, but then again how long has it been like it?

your MES must be a different edition to mine,as there nothing called that

level has presumably been that low for awhile,
thanks for your earlier recommendation of the Tutela oil,
"Tutela cs speed auto transmission oil for the hydraulic system usual 1litre."

out of interest is it REALLY CLEAR? ( no Colour..), as there is NOTHING visible in the reservoir
we'll get some installed sooner rather than later,

Charlie + John

 

[bob1969]

My MES is 1.9 its the option at the top of one of the menus in the gearbox section. Its the option you select if you add a new component e.g actuator etc. It purges the air out of the system and then goes through the gears one by one. The oil is clear, its bit like powered steering oil. I think you have to measure the level after you have purged the system, as this gives the correct level. There should be max-minimum levels on the side of the bottle. The top just unscrews.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

out of interest is it REALLY CLEAR? ( no Colour..), as there is NOTHING visible in the reservoir
we'll get some installed sooner rather than later,

Charlie + John

From memory its a greenish colour

 

[Honda Owner]

Hi all,


Firstly, many thanks to Charlie for visiting my father and making a small improvement to the problem he's experiencing with his Dualogic transmission. And also for your ongoing attention in trying to completely solve the issue... it is greatly appreciated!


I just found this on eBay... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALFA-ROMEO-147-156-TUTELA-CS-SPEED-SELESPEED-OIL-1-LTR-/140467834113 ...is that the stuff he needs to buy (the Fiat/Alfa Part Number is 15081626)?


I also found this YT clip - it isn't particularly useful as a guide to replacing the fluid and purging the system, but does show the new fluid to be a light honey colour and the used fluid to be a much darker colour (so neither clear nor green)... ...at 0:43 a container can be seen that looks very similar to the one in the eBay link.


Interesting/irritating that the system can only be purged with use of the MES!


Thanks,
Jon

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

The part number for it when I had it for our Panda Dualogic in 2010 was 15081616 from my records, and price was £8.60+VAT. So that eBay price seems a bit steep.

 

[Honda Owner]

The part number for it when I had it for our Panda Dualogic in 2010 was 15081616 from my records, and price was £8.60+VAT. So that eBay price seems a bit steep.

OK, I'll suggest to my father that he buys it from his nearby Fiat dealer then... it seemed pricy to me, but I've never bought any!


I did see elsewhere a PN of 15081616 mentioned and assumed that the /26 replaced the /16, but it was only guessing.


Thanks

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

I did see elsewhere a PN of 15081616 mentioned and assumed that the /26 replaced the /16, but it was only guessing.

It is possible, Fiat have a habit of doing that