General Panda 1.2 60bhp vs 69bhp

[43576]

Can someone tell me what year the Panda started using valve variable timing? I have been looking for Panda 1.2, I have tried the 60 and the 69bhp hardly feels the difference, I would probably go for the old 60bhp seems to be less of an issue over the valve variable timing. The salesman told me that the 69bhp does 6mpg more than the 60bhp, and I can't see what they have improved. gear ratio? Does the engine tweak a different power chart?

 

[koalar]

You will not feel any difference in day to day driving, as long as they are both running correctly

This is the 60hp on an engine dyno

And this is the 69hp

The gear ratios were changed to improve economy withe the ECCO pack

Astrix on here

I fitted a none ECCO gearbox to my car and in the real world there's no difference in economy, I got the same with 60hp, 69hp and 69hp minus it's proper gearbox

As for date, introduced with euro 5

 

[rmjbn1]

2010 was the change-over. My preference would be for a 2010 Euro4 1.2 ECO with the lower VED of later cars but non-VVT (non interference, simpler timing belt change and no VVT solenoid to gum up).

As above, power curves are the same until the VVT comes in above 4k rpm. What I love about the 1.2 FIRE is max torque at just 2500 rpm, it pulls surprisingly well and suits the car perfectly.

The salesman told me that the 69bhp does 6mpg more than the 60bhp,

Hmm not heard that before. I'd be very surprised. My Euro4 1.2 consistently returns around 50mpg (5.6l/100km) rural use (the dash says 60+ but it's a bit optimistic)

 

[jrkitching]

2010 was the change-over. My preference would be for a 2010 Euro4 1.2 ECO with the lower VED of later cars but non-VVT (non interference, simpler timing belt change and no VVT solenoid to gum up).

Mine too. You need to look for a 1.2 dynamic eco from 2009-2010. The last of the Euro4 cars were likely first registered Sept-Oct 2010.

The salesman told me that the 69bhp does 6mpg more than the 60bhp

This is just plain wrong; I've run cars with both engines and there is no meaningful difference in real world economy.

The 60HP is a little more flexible at lower rpm, making it a bit nicer to drive in town.

 

[The Panda Nut]

2010 was the change-over. My preference would be for a 2010 Euro4 1.2 ECO with the lower VED of later cars but non-VVT (non interference, simpler timing belt change and no VVT solenoid to gum up).

As above, power curves are the same until the VVT comes in above 4k rpm. What I love about the 1.2 FIRE is max torque at just 2500 rpm, it pulls surprisingly well and suits the car perfectly.

Hmm not heard that before. I'd be very surprised. My Euro4 1.2 consistently returns around 50mpg (5.6l/100km) rural use (the dash says 60+ but it's a bit optimistic)

I find if the VVT solenoid is not cleaned regularly the car feels sluggish and thats with very regular oil and filter changes so the VVT gumming up is not imagination.

 

[43576]

I have learned something new. Eleganiza, which Is very rare to find now, does have a rear headrest, but the rest, like Dynamic, ECO, and Easy, don't have one! I am more concerned about my family's whiplash if sit in the back. Does the without headrest already have metal hidden inside, ready to push its two sleeve plugs and find another Panda headrest from eBay that fits in? possible or impossible? Thanks

 

[jrkitching]

Eleganza, which Is very rare to find now, does have a rear headrest, but the rest, like Dynamic, ECO, and Easy, don't have one!

If you do find a late model Eleganza, they're nice cars, but two things to bear in mind; you'll pay quite a bit more in Road Tax (the Eleganza couldn't make the £35 cut), and it has automatic climate control, which has been known to be problematic on older cars with no easy fix.

Dynamic models from that period had a one piece rear seat as standard (IIRC the Eleganza has split rear seats), so I doubt retrofitting headrests is possible without swapping out at least the entire upper part of the rear seat. I have a 2010 dynamic and there's no obvious provision for fitting headrests in the rear.

 

[43576]

If you do find a late model Eleganza, they're nice cars, but two things to bear in mind; you'll pay quite a bit more in Road Tax (the Eleganza couldn't make the £35 cut), and it has automatic climate control, which has been known to be problematic on older cars with no easy fix.

Dynamic models from that period had a one piece rear seat as standard (IIRC the Eleganza has split rear seats), so I doubt retrofitting headrests is possible without swapping out at least the entire upper part of the rear seat. I have a 2010 dynamic and there's no obvious provision for fitting headrests in the rear.

Thanks for letting me know that Eleganza did not qualified £35 tax band because of climate control.

 

[MrMagoo]

Thanks for letting me know that Eleganza did not qualified £35 tax band because of climate control.

It is not because of climate control (which is pointless). I have an Eleganza Dualogic (which does have working climate control) and it is because its emissions exceed the CO2 threshold for £35 road tax. I believe larger tyres are also a factor.

 

[43576]

One more question. On 1.2 Eco I saw today, the car is electric power steering but what the heck is this?

 

[jrkitching]

It is not because of climate control (which is pointless). I have an Eleganza Dualogic (which does have working climate control) and it is because its emissions exceed the CO2 threshold for £35 road tax. I believe larger tyres are also a factor.

Correct; a combination of larger/wider wheels/tyres and a little extra weight just pushed it over the emissions limit for what was then band B

One more question. On 1.2 Eco I saw today, I am not sure what this is?

It's the clutch master cylinder, containing some very old and dirty clutch fluid.

 

[koalar]

I have learned something new. Eleganiza, which Is very rare to find now, does have a rear headrest, but the rest, like Dynamic, ECO, and Easy, don't have one! I am more concerned about my family's whiplash if sit in the back. Does the without headrest already have metal hidden inside, ready to push its two sleeve plugs and find another Panda headrest from eBay that fits in? possible or impossible? Thanks

The split folding rear seats from the 500 swap in and have a headrest, you will need all the brackets as well

Rear headrest in the panda are rare