General Panda diesel no Eleganza?

[43576]

I have noticed something on Panda diesel, the only I have seen is Dynamic with no air conditioning, none Eleganza! But on the 1.2 petrol it does have Eleganza and Dynamic with air conditioning!

Was wonder if the diesel is too big to fit air conditioning in?

 

[DaveMcT]

Fitting air conditioning to any Panda is “possible” but it’s so much cost and complication you’ll not want the job.
Condenser rad brackets exist. It would drop straight in. Engine probably has mounting brackets but it’s likely to need a different mounting to take alternator and AC compressor.
Pipes can be run in braided hose for a price.
The big killer is access to the heater unit.
(1) You need one with AC evaporator - they are rare so very not cheap.
(2) The under-dash structural frame has to come out of the car. Both doors have to be removed and the steering column.

 

[irc]

I've got a Dynamic diesel with aircon... it's a squeeze, but they did it.
It's an absolute cow to change the aircon belt... guess how I know!
(Please excuse the filthy engine bay - it's a work-in-progress)

 

[DaveMcT]

Those pipes look like 100HP fitting. Engine has to come out to fit new hard pipes. Probably the same even if braided hose can be used.

 

[irc]

There's enough clearance for a couple of cigarette papers, but nothing useful like a spanner (or even fingers).
Definitely easier to pull the engine and do EVERYTHING in one go... that's my plan for this one, if I ever get round to it.
It'll get a chain swap along with a major de-coke (15 years of grandma-driving) as well a new alternator (looks really bad but still working), starter motor (bit lazy) and aircon pump (noisy). And while it's in bits, gearbox swap (bit tired) and new clutch.
All the bits are ready in a pile waiting for some ramp time, but it never seems to get to the front of the queue. And probably won't until something breaks.

 

[DaveMcT]

I got my engine out by making a 6 x 2 timber frame. Horizontal across top of engine supported on short lengths from shock top mounts to vertical timbers bolted to the bumper brackets. I took the weight with ordinary jack and strapped the engine with a ratchet tie down and another at gearbox end. Loosen the straps a little, lower on jack to the strap. Move to the other end and repeat.
So easy it was silly.
I sat the lump on a furniture moving castor truck so it could be wheeled away from the car.
My recent cylinder head job was done with engine in the car. OMG what a pain. A big mistake to not remove the engine.

 

[43576]

You know Fiat Panda 1.2 eco, I did a bit of search over the old 60bhp. The ECO do 57mpg than the old which is 51mpg. I can't see the difference over the old.
Engine nothing difference just the same
low rolling resist tyres on ECO
no roof bar reduces the drag on ECO
same exhaust system, nothing extra CAT.

I am not sure how it got extra 6mpg????

 

[koalar]

The panda 1.2 engine, gearbox and injection system kept evolving
EURO 3 versions
EURO 4 versions
Euro 4 Ecopack (extended gearbox ratios)
ECO versions
Since 09/2009
EURO 5 versions
From 01/2010
The 4x4 is different again, block, cams, throttle body, wiring

 

[43576]

The panda 1.2 engine, gearbox and injection system kept evolving
EURO 3 versions
EURO 4 versions
Euro 4 Ecopack (extended gearbox ratios)
ECO versions
Since 09/2009
EURO 5 versions
From 01/2010
The 4x4 is different again, block, cams, throttle body, wiring

I see the gearbox have changed the ratio, my is 3,000rpm at 70mph. I would imagine low RPM at 70mph on ECO. That why the increased in MPG.

 

[rmjbn1]

I'd be amazed if real world consumption is that different between older 1.2 and ECO

FIAT probably just tweaked it to get best possible results under test conditions when VED changed to CO2 emissions in 2009 in UK.

Annoyingly the older 1.2 just missed the threshold for £30.

 

[DaveMcT]

I hired a Fiat 500 around 2014. Nice car, but I hated the over-tall top gear. The slightest slope even on motorways had me dropping to 4th. It was spinning faster than I was comfortable with or struggling. Cried out for a six speed box.

 

[43576]

I rented a Fiat 500 1.2 69bhp on holiday, I wasn't impressed of the valve variable time, when rev hard above 5,000rpm it does not feel any of the difference over the 60bhp, I would say the engine runs better mid-range than near the red line.
I agree, the 5th gear is sluggish. If it was my I would fit 4-2-1 exhaust manifold, engine remap, performance air filter to cope with 5th gear.

 

[DaveMcT]

A nice exhaust manifold will help top end power. But the paltry catalysts used on most will be lucky to pass mot.
The fix for tall top gear is an earlier model gearbox with more sensible ratios - if one will fit the car. Or as said go for six speed.

 

[koalar]

1.2

Full decat and full race exhaust makes no noticeable difference whatsoever, the standard exhaust and air filter are up to the job

Go look up the the back to back rolling road graphs I have already posted earlier

As far as I remember 4 bhp and only at the last few hundred rpm

Don't waste your money

You need to change camshaft before any mods make any difference