Technical Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next

[theoneandonly]

Klaus
thanks for your comments,
my typing finges are now a bit cold having been out trying to Play with alfaobd finaly got connected but battery is low and would not start it again (7 years old so not surprising, need to check it out before more OBD playing)

Ive got some old logs is this the log you mention or if not how do you get it
Tested device: Injection Diesel Marelli 9DF CF6/EOBD (EP mot. 2.3 JTD)
___________________
2022/05/03 15:30:40.338
DEVICE INFO:
Fiat drawing number: 55271527
VIN - Current: �����������������
Hardware number: MJ9DFHW000
Hardware version: 00
Software number: 4L43A128
Software version: 0028
Homologation number: 9DF.A1
ISO code: 0001500814
SINCOM:
Factory:
Serial No:
VIN - Original: �����������������
Programming date: 07/03/19




Boot Software Identification Supplier: Marelli
Application Software Supplier: Marelli
Application Data Identification Supplier: Marelli
__________________________
ECU Time Stamps (RAM): 16978.00 min
ECU Time Stamps From Key On (RAM): 60.00 sec
Speed limiter omologation: 255.00 km/h
Driven distance too low viscosity recognition: 0.00 km
EGR high pressure valve duty cycle command:
EGR high pressure valve opening/closing sense: Opening
EGR high pressure valve control status:
EGR high pressure valve offset learning: Disabled
EGR high pressure valve position control: Disabled
EGR high pressure valve air quantity control: Enabled
EGR high pressure valve last offset learnt: 0.00 mm
Number of consecutive interrupted regenerations by key off: 0.00
Engine condition status 1:
Water In Fuel: Not present
Glow plugs activated: No
DPF Regeneration mode: High oxygen concentration
Lambda upstream probe status: Not active,
EGR high pressure cooler bypass (exhaust gas cooled): Off
EGR high pressure valve control closed loop: Disabled
Boost control closed loop: Not active,
Particulate filter regeneration: Off
Engine condition status 2:
Air Conditioner command: Off
Conditioner request: Off
Fan powerstage 3rd command: Not active,
Fan powerstage 2nd command: Not active,
Fan powerstage 1st command: Not active,
Clutch pedal: Not pressed
Brake pedal redundant switch: Not pressed
Brake pedal main switch: Not pressed
CAN Communication Status:
Manual Trasmission Automated or Robotic Gear status: NO FAULTS
Braking System Module status: NO FAULTS
Body Control Module status: NO FAULTS
Engine Control Module mute status: NO FAULTS
Engine Control Module bus off status: NO FAULTS
Status of injection:
Injection post 4: Not active,
Injection post 3: Not active,
Post 2 injection: Not active,
Post 1 injection: Not active,
AFTER injection status: Off
Main injection: Off
PRE injection status: Off
Pilot injection: Off
Lambda/Diesel Particulate Filter presence:
Lambda downstream probe: Present
Diesel Particulate Filter and upstream lambda probe: Present
Lambda upstream probe: Present
Diesel Particulate Filter: Present
Percentage of Diesel Particulate Filter soot mass: 80.31 %

 

[Fredastaire]

@theoneandonly , I don't see any reference to the 'LP EGR' or it's cooler; any thoughts?
.
If you have the main van battery dead, please don't try changing it for future use, just replace it. Flat batteries are known to cause airbag ECU lockout.

 

[NavNie]

Hello theoneandonly,
your question: Ive got some old logs is this the log you mention or if not how do you get it

Answer: your are on the right way, but the record is to short, may be created with an older version less 2.3.3
Currently i use Android Demo Version 2.3.6.0 the Enginge system Protocol is more then 500 Report lines long

greetings Klaus

 

[aschoots]

@theoneandonly - Thank you. The injectors was what i was most concerned about which may have had a build up on. Ill try get a better run this afternoon. But may have to wait until i do my trip in about 10 days which is a 5 hour trip. Now that i have found and used the templates.

I manually ticked what was required, i tried to use the template 5, but when i press ok, it still just shows all options? I must be doing something NOOB.

​

Hi @Poachersmoon,

How did the 5 hour trip go? Still going strong with both EGR's cancelled?
Curious as I have everything ready to apply a LP-EGR cancel but, since other owners report errors after a LP/HP-EGR cancel, I have a little bit of doubt...
Also I am told together with the modified ECU map file, the wiring plug to the EGR valve(s) is to be disconnected. Is that the same on your 'cancel'?

cheers, Alex Schoots

 

[Jiwawa]

@Jiwawa there is no reference to software version or even to the fiat service notes numberxxxx. If you read the whole 40 pages again you will find reference and @Fredastaire s statement about a 401 never (99%) means the hp valve is an issue. Is it manual or conformatic as that ecu will need a check or update as well.

Thanks to you both. Yes, I'd read the whole 40-odd pages and, altho I don't understand all of it, I did get that the 401 pointing to the HPEGR was a red herring and was very keen that my FP should understand that too.

Apparently I'm on the latest software version (I believe that was done in Jan 2018). And yes, I'm Comfortmatic. Loved it all till this set of problems with their huge costs.

@Fredastaire Thank you for the detailed steps for how to get at the LPEGR cooler. I'll certainly forward to FP and hope they're in a 'keen to learn' mode.

 

[Jiwawa]

@theoneandonly and @Fredastaire I forgot to ask about the
M F0071796727 N/STK RECOND.D EGR V 1.0 249.25 EACH
mentioned on the worksheet. What is it and would you expect it to be implicated in the work?

 

[Jiwawa]

I'm not aware of any of our series Ducatos needing a new LP EGR or it needing cleaning.

@theoneandonly and @Fredastaire I forgot to ask about the
M F0071796727 N/STK RECOND.D EGR V 1.0 249.25 EACH
mentioned on the worksheet. What is it and would you expect it to be implicated in the work?

Re-reading @Fredastaire comment above, is the RECOND.D EGR V I was asking about above the same as the LPEGR?

 

[Fredastaire]

If you were organizing the repair yourself then both EGR s and the cooler can be cleaned with caustic soda. I've changed my HP EGR for a new one (before I knew it was a red herring) then cleaned my old one, I've had my garage fit a new cooler (then cleaned the old one for re-use), I've not had my LP EGR off but have bought a second hand one so I know first hand the construction, (returned as it was internally rusty from shelf storage).
I don't know any of the egr part numbers.

 

[Jiwawa]

Thanks @Fredastaire - I've asked if the EGR valve ordered is HP or LP. If HP I think we need to have further conversation.

Your repairs are holding out without having changed the LPEGR? Am I right in thinking you had the HPEGR replaced at the same time as something else so you weren't sure if it was necessary or not, but that others who've changed only the HPEGR have found it to be a red herring?

 

[aschoots]

Thanks @Fredastaire - I've asked if the EGR valve ordered is HP or LP. If HP I think we need to have further conversation.

Your repairs are holding out without having changed the LPEGR? Am I right in thinking you had the HPEGR replaced at the same time as something else so you weren't sure if it was necessary or not, but that others who've changed only the HPEGR have found it to be a red herring?

Hi @Jiwawa, I too went through a couple of steps before I stumbled across this forum thread. Replaced the HP-EGR valve, but that did not resolve the issue. Also it is quite simple to check if the valve is working correctly, there is a test procedure that you can start from MES which cycles the HP-EGR valve. It is safe to assume it is OK when MES ends the test with OK. Having two HP-EGR valves (the old and new one) I did the test with the valve not installed - so you can see the movement - and both valves operated identically. Cheers, Alex

 

[Jiwawa]

Thanks @aschoots. Would you by any chance have the part number for that HPEGR valve?

 

[aschoots]

Thanks @aschoots. Would you by any chance have the part number for that HPEGR valve?

The HPEGR valve is part no 71796727

 

[Fredastaire]

Hi @Jiwawa , first I had the 401 code repeating which says HP EGR blocked so in innocence I bought and fitted a new one, no change! It's later that I bought multiecuscan and looked at the events log for 401 and spotted the stupid unattainable airflow that the ECU asked it to meet. So it's a software message error.
.
I was thus taken down the same garden path as everybody else, dealers included, in to changing a perfectly good component.
.
Then I was getting 236 238 codes at which point I changed the MAP and solenoid together at one go, (hindsight says I should have changed one at a time to see effect). This bought me some months of driving before the multi whammy of multiple errors codes and limp mode.
Having bought a brand new Fiat boxed LP EGR cooler off eBay I got my local garage to change just it alone. The LP EGR was not touched, the original DPF re-fitted.
So more than a year later, no codes, HOWEVER, I know the DPF is cracked as my tailpipe kitchen towel wipe is sooty.
The question is how long before the cooler re-blocks?
I have another new unopened cooler in stock plus my original which I cleaned with caustic.
.
Does this answer your questions?

 

[Jiwawa]

The HPEGR valve is part no 71796727

That's the part they've ordered then, which I'll need to query. I had already given the info about the 401 error being a red herring.

Does this answer your questions?

Thank you, yes. Could I just ask, would you have changed the DPF if you'd known at the time that it was cracked? Or are you happier at the thought of changing the cooler every couple of years rather than replace the DPF?

Mind you, the answer might be different for you and me since I'd be using a garage.

 

[Fredastaire]

Hi @Jiwawa, I had been in contact with a Fiat Professional employee at a dealers in Slovakia. He had read out forum post in detail as they had a number of faulty Ducato campers, he complained that Fiat Italy weren't much help. He decided to try changing just the coolers and if course the faults disappeared. I waited a few weeks whilst he awaited his customers response, (no returns). So I then went ahead to change the cooler only.
.
Would I look back and change my decision? No.
Bearing in mind I'm a retired guy doing low miles per year then to pay the labour to change a cooler over every couple of years has to be acceptable; bearing in.mind that the blocked cooler can be cleaned out with caustic soda and re-used next time yet again.

 

[theoneandonly]

@Jiwawa, i have been monitoring @fredastaires engine since before his LPEGR cooler change (with multiecuscan) data hes been sending me. One thing to be aware of if considering the route of cooler only change, is he has the best injector variance i have seen and we monitor it. He has V32 and also the gbox ecu updated. To concider this as a course of action i would get a copy of multiecuscan running soon as posibble and get some real data to play with.
Apparently I'm on the latest software version (I believe that was done in Jan 2018). And yes, I'm Comfortmatic.
we need to very what is actualy on the van. If it is v32 jan 2018 that is the earliest i've heard of it. It would confirm certain ideas.

What software/ hardware do i need to read OBD2 Codes

This a much bigger question than first appears. If we limit it to what is a cost effective DIY solution to "read my Fiat and simple maintenance issues eg change the oil in my euro 6 or add a new MAF sensor" then the answer for me reduces to...

www.fiatforum.com

unfortunately no-one on the mes register in belfast
If you want it quickly and have a windows laptop available i would contact gendan.co.uk

 

[Jiwawa]

Again, thank you both.

@theoneandonly, I bought MES before Christmas and was getting an old laptop ready for use. Unfortunately I haven't had the opportunity to use it. I'd intended getting it on the laptop and having a play with it but my internet is rubbish and, having the lurgy, haven't been able to go use my son's. Hopefully get that sorted soon.

FP told me I'd the latest software but didn't actually put a figure on it. He was able to see from his system that I had some sort of upgrade on 2nd Jan 2018 and yes, when I checked my diary I had been back to the dealer on that date. I have no record of what for but since I bought end Aug 2017 it wouldn't have been a normal service. I'll ask again tomorrow.

 

[Jiwawa]

He decided to try changing just the coolers and if course the faults disappeared. I waited a few weeks whilst he awaited his customers response, (no returns).

@Fredastaire, I understand there are quite a few vehicles out there that had the HPEGR replaced (with no success) and then had the cooler replaced and all was well.

Do you know if the guy in Slovenia had previously changed the HPEGR on those vans or was the cooler the 1st and only thing he changed?

 

[Jiwawa]

I eventually got a response to my queries.

Yes, I have v32 software.
I'm told there IS no software update for the gearbox ECU.

 

[Jiwawa]

Sorry, that went before I'd finished!

"Yes, the EGR system has been inspected and the cooler and valve are blocked. As explained, we have diagnostic procedures to follow from Fiat to advise on the repair process for listed fault codes found and the vehicle may require additional items."

I suppose it's possible that mine is - I did drive for a considerable distance in limp mode. Anyway, they've told me it's blocked so if it turns out it isn't I'll be looking for reimbursement.

I will update when things get done.

Thanks for all the help I've had on here - it's been great! I've learned a great deal (tho I may have forgotten by next month!)

I WILL get my MES up and running so that when I head off to the continent I can at least clear codes till I can get something done,next time there are problems.