Technical Wheel Bearings

[Richardw66]

Just had both front wheel bearings replaced, whilst one was rumbling and the other wasn't perfect neither had any sign of rust or lack of grease. In fact both bearings were SKF.

We're having a go at Fiat for this issue when it may well be either an SKF issue or just the fact that motorhomes are heavy on wheel bearings for whatever reason.

What do you think ?

You didn't say how much it cost in the end to replace both bearings.

I'm in a similar situation to you only perhaps worse!

I have 06 Ducato Trigano Tribute Motorhome and finally around 45k miles the original michelin agilis front tyres needed replacing as an advisory in this years MOT, also the front brake pads were noted to be getting low but still a pass all the same.

I did some research and went for a pair of Hi-Fly s on the front because they had a pretty good write-up. Straight after they were fitted I noted what I thought was road noise and it never occured to me that it was the O/S wheel bearing. It was not there all the time so I just thought it depended on the road surface.

I replaced the front discs and pads myself using geniune brembo items and it was a right bitch of a job doing it. With the wheels and discs off I honestly didn't notice anything wrong with the bearing as it appeared to run free and smooth however I did discover an oil leak the other end of the drive shaft where it comes out of the differential so I assumed the rumbling noise problem was coming from a bearing there.

My theory was that when the tyre people changed the tyres they put the jack in the wrong place and damaged it and that's why the symtoms only displayed after the tyre change. I put this arguement to the tyre garage but that could not have been the case because they only used chassis lifts because of health and safety and that trolley jacks were no longer used.

Anyway to cut an even longer story short I've had an unwell period havng suffered a heart attack so the van has stood still for 3 months and only now am doing some thing about it. Because I'm not yet back to full health I asked a garage friend of mine to check the gearbox oil level still thinking that was the source of the whining. It turns out there is no topping up / level checking point, only a drain plug. Therefore the gearbox gets filled with the correct amount of oil and it shouldn't need topping up! As for the oil leak, that apparently was very minor because if all the quantity of oil in the gearbox had leaked out it would be all over the whole of the underside of the van and there was none. A quick road test lead to the wheel bearing diagnosis.

They wanted £95 for the bearing plus £135 for fitting. I thought £95 was a bit steep for the part but agreed the labour cost and bought the bearing off ebay for £29.

Yesterday, Friday it went in and after a few hours I had the phone call expecting it to be ready for collection only to be told that they couldn't press the old bearing out because their 10 ton press couldn't handle it. They sent it out to another engineering outfit with a 25 ton press and they couldn't do it either so had sent the hub back.

Today I picked the hub up and took it myself to a commercial lorry garage who had an ever bigger hydaulic press that was 100 years old. It's never been beaten yet they bragged! The gauge was broken so it wasn't possible to read the loading but I was told years ago before the guage broke they'd had it up to 50 ton. Guess what? Never been beaten? Well it was well and truely defeated by a Ducato front wheel bearing that absolutely refused to budge!

Now I don't know what to do next, curently the van is tying up a chassis lift and my mate needs it freed up to do other work. I suppose I'll make contact with a Fiat Commercial Garage on monday and see what they have to say about it. Surely these bearings are designed to be replaceable? I dread that I'm in for the full cost of a whole brand new hub unit (£300?) because I don't fancy going down the scrapyard route (£100) through fear of getting another bad one. A 30 day warranty is no good for me, it's not like I'm fixing it up to get rid of it, I'm keeping it!

Watch this space I'll keep you up-to-date

 

[Ricard]

Seems I was luck Richard, I read all the stories about bearings not being pressed out and the owners had to buy a complete hub. The garage I used didn't elaborate about any difficulty removing our front bearings. They charged me £81 each for SKF bearings and £210 labour for both sides including dealing with a broken ABS sensor and replacing that.

I saw bearings on e-bay for £40 up to £150 to fit the Ducato, I didn't get any helpful advise from anyone about making a decision about which bearings to buy on the basis of any poor experiences so I went for the ones the garage were able to supply.

Each and every bearing comes with a 12 month guarantee which is a bit of a joke when the average motorhome only does about 5000 miles so unless you're a full time-er or serial-camper you're not going to test that warranty.

If your fitter-mate can't remove the bearing you'll have to buy a complete hub with the bearing already fitted.

 

[Richardw66]

I've still yet to take the hub to the fiat commercial garage at coventry tomorrow but if they can't get the bearing pressed out there may be a still cheaper alternative to a complete new hub.

The dificult bit is the first stage pressing the axle drive flange portion out of the bearing. Once that is out of the way a large circlip that retains the bearng can be got at and then apparently it doesn't take much effort to press the bearing out of the housing.

The problem is that the flange at the front blocks access to the circlip so if it can't be removed you can't go any further BUT on Ebay a new Drive Flange Spindle can be bought for £59 which is a lot cheaper than a whole new hub.

If I was to obtain new one of those then old drive flange could be removed distructively by chopping it off with a grinder or a gas axe to get access to the circlip that retains the bearing.

Well that's Plan B should I need it; the only trouble is the guy who sells the replacement drive flanges is 100 miles away up in Leeds and I've not been able to source a more local supply.

I guarantee that if I can get a replacement drive flange from the fiat commercial garage it will be a damn site more than £59!

 

[Richardw66]

Update:

I'm sorry to say that after an initial recovery things have gone from bad to worse!

The Fiat Commercial Dealer at Coventrys' hydraulic press was broken and they weren't even considering replacing it but that didn't matter because they sent all their stuff out to a specialiast workshop around the corner called Dave Mac.

I gave them a call and dropped the unit off to them and a couple of hours later they gave me a call back to say the deed was done. I collected the hub assembly and delivered it back to my mate who then got one of his chaps to fit it back on the van, therefore freeing up a valuable work station.

I picked the van up later that day and it was a dream to drive, absolutely silent and no noise coming from that offside corner. Today however I have driven down to London where I work away during the weekdays and just halfway down the noise started again and it got worse and worse. I pulled into the services and had a look but could see nothing untoward so I had no choice other than to keep going.

I first had to visit a site in central london before moving on to Erith and by the time I had got to my office the noise was not quite so bad but there did seem and awlful drag on the van but nothing that caused it to vear to the left or anything like that. When I got out of the van I could smell the aroma of burning brakes and the offside pads were smoking.

I have now dropped the van off at a local garage to let them take a look at it but I strongly suspect that the new bearing that has failed. That would be the cheap new bearing I bought off ebay and I contacted the supplier who I bought it off and they seamed very surprised at the thought I might have had a duff one. I was told that wheel bearings was all they sell and they have sold 1000's without any returns. They informed me of the return process that had to be followed before they could send out a replacement but that's no good to me because I need the van repairing NOW!

I also talked to Dave Mac who fitted the bearing who said it did take a fair bit of pressure to press the new bearing in but certainly no more than in any other usual case. He didn't have any concerns at the time that the bearing was faulty or that the job had not been done right.

Well, I suppose it is just a job of watching this space and I will report back any new developments.

 

[Richardw66]

UPDATE:

Well the new wheel bearing is definately no good, the local garage where I am down here in Erith had reservations about fitting another new bearing in the existing housing just in case it had a fault caused by the excessive force needed to remove the old bearing. They quoted for replacing the whole hub unit using genuine fiat parts of £700! but then said if I obtained another unit from a breakers yard they would fit it for me for £35.

I decided to go that route and the first phone call around the local yards resulted in tracking down what was said to be a good condition unit for just £45. I had booked the van into the garage to get it done however, when I went to collect the part from the breakers yard the unit did indeed look like new but it wasn't off a Ducato. You see I said 'Ducato' to the man on the phone but on his pad he wrote down 'Picasso' !!!

Never mind more searching required but having tried the rest of the breakers yards and tried online at all those find-a-part type websites I have failed to come up with a replacement second hand unit. It seems most breakers don't keep them because there is no way of really telling if the bearing is any good until it's too late when it's on the vehicle. Some breakers sell them but with the caveat that they recommend the bearing is changed and the guarantee only covers the bearing carrier. That's a very good way of charging you £90 for a £1's worth of scrap!

In the end I have decided to make use of my breakdown cover and have the vehicle recovered 100 miles back home to the Midlands and straight to the Fiat Professional Dealer in Coventry. I have negotiated a special price with them seeing as it's already been apart the job should be a doddle!

In hindsight I should have done this in the first place but it's just one of those things that when faced with a job you can't do yourself you enivitably try to save money, in my case using alternative professional labour but the weak link in the chain was the cheap bearing that I supplied off ebay.

My advice to those who come after me; Sod the cost, yes it may seem a lot at the time but ONLY let a Geniune Fiat Dealer do the work using Genuine Parts.

A Guarantee and Peace of Mind Costs Money but it's still best to have one!

 

[Gavw71]

The bearings are quite a labour intensive job, as they can take a hell of a time to remove.

Very unusual to have them go a such a low mileage, mine were replaced 6 months ago at approx 136,000 miles.

There is a bottom suspension bush on the Ducato that can give the symptoms very similar to wheel bearings (IE, lots of play top to bottom): I can't imagine that would go after such a short mileage either, as I had that done about 3 months ago once my wheel bearings had been done!!

Parts are going to be from Fiat, possibly with a couple of day lead time, as most dealers don't stock a lot of commercial parts as they're quite robust and quite readily available centrally from Fiat UK

Worth checking though IMHO.

Hi, new member here, just found the site (and this post) after searching how to replace front wheel bearings on a Ducato. I realise this is quite an old post but here goes.

I have an Autotrail Cheyenne 634 on a 2002 Ducato 2.8 JTD body. It's done 33000 miles and the MOT tester today informed me that it appears there's a little play in the wheel bearings. I also felt the wheel and there is definite movement top to bottom. However, there is absolutely no noise when driving whatsoever, when cornering or otherwise. So I was just wondering if it could be the bottom suspension bush and if so, what do I need to do to check this?

Any replies will be much appreciated.

Cheers,

Gav.

 

[Ricard]

In my case the bearings, or one bearing started to rumble on the way back from a trip though it wasn't diagnosed until I took the van for MOT. When the mechanic turned the wheel with the vehicle jacked-up he could feel, and I could feel the grinding.

I had both replaced rather than just one side, the old bearing looked fine, they weren't dry and they were SKF. I replaced them with SKF and though I don't remember the cost I could find the invoice.

 

[tki53]

Re: Replacing Fiat Ducato Front Wheel Bearing.

I have a 2006 Burstner motorhome on a 2.8JTD Ducato.

Nearside front wheel bearing went noisy at 20,000 miles and was replaced under warranty, whilst travelling through Germany.

Offside front wheel bearing went noisy at about 30,000 miles. I decided to change it myself whilst here in France.

Bought the bearing online cost about £50, comes with circlip and nut.

I bought a 3/4" socket set (cost 40 euros).

Removed the knuckle and took it to an agricultural mechanics workshop (they normally repair large tractors). They had a large press and were able to press out the hub flange and then the bearing, it took alot of force to do this. They then pressed in the new bearing, fitted new circlip and pressed in hub flange. Charged me 30 euros.

Built it back up and all is well.

Something to note...

When removing the knuckle from the vehicle it's necessary to first remove the ABS wheel speed sensor. Mine was corroded in and I damaged it whilst getting it out.

I ordered one online and got a genuine Bosch replacement for £52 delivered. Got it from mister-auto.co.uk - I can highly recommend them.

By the way, a Fiat garage quoted me £262 to supply and fit the sensor! [/QUOTEx


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anybody know how to remove the front drivers knuckle; or any links to any photos diagrams please; I am from Australia; and have a fiat ducato van 2.8 jtd 2005

 

[varesecrazy]

Re: Replacing Fiat Ducato Front Wheel Bearing.

I have a 2006 Burstner motorhome on a 2.8JTD Ducato.

Nearside front wheel bearing went noisy at 20,000 miles and was replaced under warranty, whilst travelling through Germany.

Offside front wheel bearing went noisy at about 30,000 miles. I decided to change it myself whilst here in France.

Bought the bearing online cost about £50, comes with circlip and nut.

I bought a 3/4" socket set (cost 40 euros).

Removed the knuckle and took it to an agricultural mechanics workshop (they normally repair large tractors). They had a large press and were able to press out the hub flange and then the bearing, it took alot of force to do this. They then pressed in the new bearing, fitted new circlip and pressed in hub flange. Charged me 30 euros.

Built it back up and all is well.

Something to note...

When removing the knuckle from the vehicle it's necessary to first remove the ABS wheel speed sensor. Mine was corroded in and I damaged it whilst getting it out.

I ordered one online and got a genuine Bosch replacement for £52 delivered. Got it from mister-auto.co.uk - I can highly recommend them.

By the way, a Fiat garage quoted me £262 to supply and fit the sensor! [/QUOTEx


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anybody know how to remove the front drivers knuckle; or any links to any photos diagrams please; I am from Australia; and have a fiat ducato van 2.8 jtd 2005

hi, and welcome

.. nice informative 1st post,

Charlie

 

[EJB]

2002 Ducato motorhome 2Ltr JTD.
Holiday in France earlier this month the nearside (UK) bearing started singing.
Got louder for a few days so booked repair at a French Fiat Pro dealer.
Couple of days for spare to arrive then fitted on the third day.
The cost.......775Euro (About £535).
Have read all the horror stories about this particular problem so am relieved that is was repaired in reasonable time without problems.


PS. 54000 miles on speedo.

 

[JeffersonCampervan]

In my previous Winnebago motorhome I always carried a spare wheel bearing, on the assumption that if it went, it would go in the middle of nowhere, which indeed is what happened. Although that vehicle was based on a VW T4, the rear wheel bearings were not standard. I’d like to carry a wheel bearing in my 2001 Hymer B654 AL-KO chassis - Fiat Ducato 128jtd. 1.Are the bearings standard Fiat? 2.are they different front & rear? and 3.does anyone have a part number to which they can direct me? I also understand there are a couple of price points/qualities. (I'd only buy the best quality). I'd like to buy on the continent, since the Hymer is stored in NL. Being in Canada, I need to preorder such items to have them in NL before I arrive, since I'm not sitting in Europe with easy access to facilities between trips. I was hoping to have exactly the correct part or parts sitting in NL before I arrive for our next trip end of June. Thanks, Frank in Toronto, Hymer based in NL.

 

[rolandbrindley]

Not all wheel bearing makers use the same quality standards, steels differ, processes differ, tolerances differ and rubber seal quality differs, all you can do is look for the best quality to price ratio, and how do you know the quality? Well you don't, but looking for a good name is a big help. SKF, Timken, RNA, RPH, INA seem popular, but recommending one make over another is beyond my knowledge. For myself I avoid Chinese and Japanese stuff anyway, bearings or otherwise.

It is to be remembered that there are 3 or 4 'grades' of fit for bearings, 0, 00, 000 I think, and it's a help to get the right grade although that doesn't mean using the wrong grade will cause early failure.

I have discovered that the best way to source a bearing is not to visit the Fiat agency spares counter, it is to visit a specialist bearing supplier armed with the Fiat part number and also the bearing dimensions if possible, and see what they say. They may well know plenty about your problem and this particular bearing and will be in a position to supply the right part at an economic price.

Be aware also that the same bearing can be marketed in several different boxes, ignore that but look carefully at any numbers engraved or stamped on the bearing itself.

I have a Ducato TD10 made in 1993 which I bought new, and the wheel bearings are the originals and are quiet.

 

[Torq]

BUT. The ABS trigger is built into the bearing and if you just buy a bearing based off the dimensions then it will most likely not have the magnetic trigger built in .

Have a watch of this.

 

[Crossingkeeper]

BUT. The ABS trigger is built into the bearing and if you just buy a bearing based off the dimensions then it will most likely not have the magnetic trigger built in .

I remember the grief you had with changing your bearing, but did you eventually have a happy ending?

However the OP's van is 2001 and won't be blessed with ABS.

 

[Torq]

I remember the grief you had with changing your bearing, but did you eventually have a happy ending?

I somehow managed to get it through it's test with the fault. But it won't pass next time so I've another bearing to fit. I either damaged the trigger in the bearing when fitting or it doesn't have one, I'll check which it is when I have it out.

However the OP's van is 2001 and won't be blessed with ABS.

Are you sure about that.... see starting post of this topic, it's an oldie!

First post on here so still fiding my way around.
I have a 2006 Fiat Ducato 2.8JTD with motorhome coachbuilt body.
Although it has only covered 23,000 miles I believe I have a dodgy front wheel bearing. So questions please:-
Is this common at such low mileage?
Where is the best place to buy such a part?
Would it be only the bearing I would have to buy?
I have spoken to Ford & Slater in Peterborough and they want in the region of £90.00 inc VAT which seems an awful lot of money for a fairly small bearing.
Thank you for reading and hopefully replying.
Mashy

 

[Crossingkeeper]

Are you sure about that.... see starting post of this topic, it's an oldie!

Lol, a senior moment, I'd forgotten the thread ran to three pages, I was referring to the first post on this page i.e. JeffersonCampervan's van. However I did own a 2006 reg. 2.8JTD van for a couple of years and I don't recollect it having ABS?