Technical 1996 Fiat Ducato wheel bearings!

[bugsymike]

Thanks,yes i agree....keep existing spacers with its same Hub............(i don't have a spare cv joint i'm afraid.)

You may be able to get a long big bolt and washers that only fit the inner bearings and nip them up on the spacer to test the hub in a vice, although nothing like the torque you mentioned, but thinking about it they didn't use a high torque figure when setting them up using their test jig so may be worth trying.

 

[MrkT]

You may be able to get a long big bolt and washers that only fit the inner bearings and nip them up on the spacer to test the hub in a vice, although nothing like the torque you mentioned, but thinking about it they didn't use a high torque figure when setting them up using their test jig so may be worth trying.

i think that's what they essentially do when setting up the end play anyway.......two big washers,short length of threaded bar and two nuts! (oh,and a dial guage) and nip up to 10nm.

 

[MrkT]

just another update guys.........
i bought that used hub mentioned earlier. surprisingly, it came already split with the bearings removed. The all important spacer was present taped to the stub axle....it measured 15.61mm in length.
these spacers were originally sold in seven different sizes, the largest 15.65mm,then 15.61mm,15.57mm and so on.
they were 55.1mm i.d,and i think approx 60mm o.d (i forgot to measure the o.d. but it will be whatever the bearing inner race is)(I've just measured my old race and it's around 62-63mm)
please note; these spacers are for the heavy duty hub (1800kg) with 16" wheels only as fitted to our 1996 Hymer B694 tag axle motorhome,(Fiat Ducato 2.5tdi based) and the spacers for these hubs can not be bought anywhere! if you are having new bearings fitted,make sure the person doing it knows about the spacer and retains and uses it.......otherwise you new bearings will fail quite quickly! (like ours did!)
if you have 15" wheels,then your hub takes the smaller i.d. spacer which is still available.(coastal motorhomes has them)

I've just ordered some steel tube to make a spacer to rebuild my original hub (for a spare) and the nearest i could get was 55.38mm i.d. by 63.5mm o.d (from metal supermarkets)

anyway,i have a 30 ton hydraulic bearing press i bought recently,so have rebuilt this hub I've just received (with new expensive bearings,with spacer installed,and packed with expensive top quality shell gadus s3 v220c 2 grease ) and it is now fitted to the van. i'll take it for a good run out tomorrow..............but don't envisage any problems. (i'll do the other side some other time)

many garages have mislaid this spacer when changing bearings,(it is easy to overlook if you don't know about it) i took the hubs to a garage,because i didn't have a bearing press,and these people are supposed to be the experts!
I've always been a firm believer if you can do a job yourself then do so.........from now on that's exactly what i will do!
thanks to everyone who tried to help.....it was much appreciated.
if anyone in the North east needs a fiat ducato hub rebuilding give me a shout!

 

[cid]

Hi again, Great to read your persistence and skill have paid off. Careful offering your skills to the Northeast. Remember the quote from that baseball film "build it and they will come". I can see the queue forming now. All the Very Best, Ian.

 

[bugsymike]

I've always been a firm believer if you can do a job yourself then do so.........from now on that's exactly what i will do!
thanks to everyone who tried to help.....it was much appreciated.

Well done for persevering where many would have fallen by the wayside, including some, so called "professionals" and I am with you on that, I don't like to be beaten either.
I taught myself repairing and building computers after a shop tried to rip me off on a repair (not the programming side) as I found the fault finding and problem solving on the hardware was skills I had learnt in my motortrade experience and have used that method whether doing building maintenance around the house, electrical, plumbing and many other tasks.
There is also the job satisfaction side too.

 

[MrkT]

well,after around 1000+ miles can you believe i can hear a rumble from the front left bearing again!! (especially on the overrun when slowing down) there is no play and it is not getting hot,but it is a definite bearing rumble! This is the side with the expensive bearing and expensive grease! (and a used hub with the correct spacer from that hub) neither my old hub or the "new" hub were worn. i'm well aware this model hub with the two bearings and a spacer tend to go through wheel bearings,but this quickly!? I've also noticed the other side done by a garage is losing grease as i can see it flicked onto the inner hub! (that will be the inner seal no doubt!) The only thing i can think of is perhaps the bearings that are now noisy weren't greased enough? (this was done by hand,and i thought i'd packed it well,but you never know) (I've just ordered more expensive grease and a bearing packer) fiat ducato change these bearings to a one piece sealed unit in later models. i know the bubs will be different as they are held in with a circlip, but does anyone know what else is different? i'm thinking if these fail again to try to change over to the later hubs/bearings.

 

[MrkT]

By the way the grease used was the top of the range shell gadus S3 v220ac 2,(which is supposedly the dogs danglies of greases.) and the bearings SKF high quality bearings.

 

[bugsymike]

well,after around 1000+ miles can you believe i can hear a rumble from the front left bearing again!! (especially on the overrun when slowing down) there is no play and it is not getting hot,but it is a definite bearing rumble! This is the side with the expensive bearing and expensive grease! (and a used hub with the correct spacer from that hub) neither my old hub or the "new" hub were worn. i'm well aware this model hub with the two bearings and a spacer tend to go through wheel bearings,but this quickly!? I've also noticed the other side done by a garage is losing grease as i can see it flicked onto the inner hub! (that will be the inner seal no doubt!) The only thing i can think of is perhaps the bearings that are now noisy weren't greased enough? (this was done by hand,and i thought i'd packed it well,but you never know) (I've just ordered more expensive grease and a bearing packer) fiat ducato change these bearings to a one piece sealed unit in later models. i know the bubs will be different as they are held in with a circlip, but does anyone know what else is different? i'm thinking if these fail again to try to change over to the later hubs/bearings.

Are you sure the noise is from the wheel bearing as generally I would expect noise to increase with road speed and apart from speed decreasing then over run slowing down usually only affects diff gears. Plenty of oil in gearbox?
Re the on piece bearings, I would expect it would be a complete hub/shaft change over, assuming they would even swap, but I have not tried so just guessing.

 

[MrkT]

Are you sure the noise is from the wheel bearing as generally I would expect noise to increase with road speed and apart from speed decreasing then over run slowing down usually only affects diff gears. Plenty of oil in gearbox?
Re the on piece bearings, I would expect it would be a complete hub/shaft change over, assuming they would even swap, but I have not tried so just guessing.

Hi Mike, yes the gearbox is overfilled to 3.25lts (to protect 5th gear....another known problem with these!) it definitely sounds like the wheel bearing,and ive never noticed a gearbox oil leak.......however,just to be sure,i'll take it for a run and put it in neutral next time to check...............

 

[MrkT]

Hi Mike, yes the gearbox is overfilled to 3.25lts (to protect 5th gear....another known problem with these!) it definitely sounds like the wheel bearing,and ive never noticed a gearbox oil leak.......however,just to be sure,i'll take it for a run and put it in neutral next time to check...............

mind you, wouldn't just dipping the clutch have the same effect as selecting neutral?
the other thing is,the motorhome is very noisy,wind and engine noise is quite loud at higher speeds.(50-60mph)....so i suppose the bearing noise is not as noticeable until slowing down and there's less wind noise etc.

 

[MrkT]

well good news....after being out in the motorhome for a good hour or more.............i don't think it's the wheel bearing. (at least as far as i can tell)
i also don't think it is the gearbox,as dipping the clutch,putting in neutral made no difference.....although the drive shafts of course will still be turning.(i think i'll drop the oil and check the level etc. just for piece of mind....thanks Mike. ) it has been changed twice in 6 months by myself already...the first time because it hadn't been changed and the second time when i changed the drive shafts and gearbox seals. (but i'm sure i had read somewhere that water can get in the gearbox when dripping down from the bulkhead onto the gear change on these older fiat ducato's?)
This noise is only there occasionally,only when it has warmed up,and only when slowing down around 25mph or less.
I've just had a thought,(doubtful but you never know) a few weeks ago we had the front tyres changed from the cheapo's that were on to Michelin agilis cross climate,could it be them..........anyone else with these noticed any undue noise? (it was also our first time out with these on when i first noticed this noise!)
To be honest i find it very difficult to describe this noise......like a rumbling really. (hence my original idea it was the wheel bearing again!) turning the steering left and right makes no difference either.

 

[bugsymike]

well good news....after being out in the motorhome for a good hour or more.............i don't think it's the wheel bearing. (at least as far as i can tell)
i also don't think it is the gearbox,as dipping the clutch,putting in neutral made no difference.....although the drive shafts of course will still be turning.(i think i'll drop the oil and check the level etc. just for piece of mind....thanks Mike. ) it has been changed twice in 6 months by myself already...the first time because it hadn't been changed and the second time when i changed the drive shafts and gearbox seals. (but i'm sure i had read somewhere that water can get in the gearbox when dripping down from the bulkhead onto the gear change on these older fiat ducato's?)
This noise is only there occasionally,only when it has warmed up,and only when slowing down around 25mph or less.
I've just had a thought,(doubtful but you never know) a few weeks ago we had the front tyres changed from the cheapo's that were on to Michelin agilis cross climate,could it be them..........anyone else with these noticed any undue noise? (it was also our first time out with these on when i first noticed this noise!)
To be honest i find it very difficult to describe this noise......like a rumbling really. (hence my original idea it was the wheel bearing again!) turning the steering left and right makes no difference either.

Good point about turning steering and you may notice if the noise is apparent but as the road curves in one direction the noise changes.
To a certain extent as long as there is oil in the gearbox (preferably without water) it should be OK.
Another thought, does your model have a driveshaft support bearing for the O/S mounted on the engine, they can whine with road speed, however you feel noise is more N/S.

 

[MrkT]

Good point about turning steering and you may notice if the noise is apparent but as the road curves in one direction the noise changes.
To a certain extent as long as there is oil in the gearbox (preferably without water) it should be OK.
Another thought, does your model have a driveshaft support bearing for the O/S mounted on the engine, they can whine with road speed, however you feel noise is more N/S.

Hi Yes it does Mike,but both these shafts have been replaced and only done just over 1400 miles.
yes it is definitely the N/S. (it is left hand drive so more apparent to my "tuned" ears!)
it was damp on top of the gearbox,which could be just road spray,so i think i'm going to drop the oil out and check it anyway......you never know.