What Shocked You Today

[SB1500]

That’s just it, the panda is the second most expensive car after the fiesta on the lot. There seems to be no logic to it as they appeared to be in similar condition, the mileages on the tickets are within 5k of each other but the jap jobs are cheaper.
There are cheaper cars on the lot, mainly Kia and the 1007, but apart from the 1007, all have 1500cc or more, are bigger and not really suitable due to stupid rip off insurance

In 2018 when NCAP published it's scare piece, (which I have no doubt was influenced by VAG) and giving the Panda 'zero stars', who'd have thought that all these years later it'd... - still be on sale, - at a premium! The power of consumer demand.

I can only guess these dealers have plenty of experience selling new and used Fiat 500's at such a high premium despite the little equipment and updates going on 18 years and they're making the same judgement call over the Panda, seeing the Fiat badge and the over-styling and trying to sell it the same. The biggest shock is... people must be buying them at these prices. There was a single 2018 Pop for sale for months at our Fiat dealer, no options, that eventually sold... I'd have bought it had they been willing to budge, but it wasn't worth £8k.

It would explain the 'f-off' new pricing Fiat chose in the UK (compared to what you can still buy them new in EU countries). Maybe it was done to comfort the poor dealer network in the UK, as they allegedly struggled to get in Panda's according to our dealer. By keeping the new price stupidly / artificially high for what it is, the usual calculations on depreciation / resale values will stay up accordingly - good for dealers, bad for buyers.

I spotted this going on a decade ago with the Dacia Sandero... £5995 new or like £6,800 for the middle trim most people went for. And a year or two later... trying to still sell them for way too close to the asking price, giving them special used prices just to make sure dealers didn't lose out too much on what was the cheapest brand, with already presumably small margins. It always made me think 'might as well buy a new one for the difference', which equally only benefits them if I was to do that.

They sort of make it up to suit themselves, and in any case, we end up having to pay the price.

I hate dealerships. I wish they'd abolish the laws that protect them so that we could buy cars directly again. Like social media companies, dealerships got special protections that allow them to do what they want, abuse their position, get away with it and leave no room for an alternative to overcome it... Well, perhaps I'm wrong... you can 'buy online' now, but that craftily means you pay the RRP / OTR price with no room for negotiating down... though doesn't that force you to choose a local dealer...

 

[porta]

I didn’t bother going to the dealer lots, just a couple of the more reputable used car lots round here

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Crumbs, just spotted this one within easy driving distance

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

www.autotrader.co.uk

A bonny looking car. I even like the colour. At that age with that mileage I think a good look in the oil filler is called for! Probably needs a cam belt too due to age?

I'd be interested to know how its gotten away with so little use.

I think cambelts these days are good for 7 - 10 years, I got the golf sorted at 7 years but the service interval was something like 100k miles.

 

[vexorg]

This is not a modern thing, having been included in the first edition of Roadcraft, the Police drivers' manual, around the mid fifties. Comes with the phrase, "brakes to slow, gears to go." If done properly, this brings better control of the car, as when the clutch is disengaged, the vehicle is less stable.

Audi made a nice video to clarify this:



I always took it to mean if you dont like the sound of engines going up and down through the gears then you must be a ponse that should take the bus. Well, that was my take on it

 

[portland_bill]

Audi made a nice video to clarify this:

Nice video, totally irrelevant to the discussion, so didn't clarify anything. As expected.

 

[vexorg]

Nice video, totally irrelevant to the discussion, so didn't clarify anything. As expected.

Much of life seems clear as mud to you, the fact you dont get it is no surprise.
Just done your damnest to teach youngsters with no soul or character with their driving, good on you! and ironically makes for more dangerous roads with what you teach.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Nice video, totally irrelevant to the discussion, so didn't clarify anything. As expected.

I think it's a case of trying to teach an old dog new tricks with me, and I'm somewhat struggling. I haven't found myself in a situation where I've felt anywhere even near to be "on the edge" in many years. I'm always looking very well ahead and tend to slow on a trailing throttle changing gear as necessary with a wee bit of braking to "fine tune" if needed. I try to keep things gentle and flowing so that no heavy braking is needed while carrying as much speed as reasonably possible to conserve momentum then using no more than moderate acceleration to build up speed again.

I was contrasting this with how I would control the car back in the days I was rallying. Braking and changing down at the same time to keep a good head of revs on the engine while the car was quite possibly going anywhere but straight down the road. Often you would provoke a slide, especially on loose or slippy surfaces, to set the car up for entry into a bend. Braking and throttle pedal use was so different to how you'd drive on a public highway. The point to me mentioning this is that car control when driven at sensible speeds is not too difficult whether you're slowing on the gears or braking gently. When the parameters move outside that - due to excessive speed, slippery surfaces or whatever - the everyday driver, with no training in skid control (and I mean actually doing it, not just talking about "keeping off the brake pedal" or "steering into the skid") is used to the vehicle going roughly where it's pointed and slowing down when the brake pedal is pressed. When it doesn't do that they tend to just panic, stamp on the brakes and try to steer out of trouble. Which actually, with ABS brakes is probably their best course of action?

The big thing is the disabling sense of panic when the thing isn't stopping or going where you're pointing it. It's only practice "in the flesh" with these sort of circumstances that moderates the panic and allows you to take appropriate action. Doesn't mean you're not going to the scene of the accident, but just some times you'll avoid it!

I can site a good example that happened to us a couple of years ago. We were going out to get the grandchildren which means we started from home which is near the docks with no snow and clear but damp road surfaces. As we climbed out of the city the snow started and the traffic slowed and bunched up to the speed of the slowest chap at the front. Road surface was by now white and slippy. A quick dab on the pedal confirmed grip very poor, so I increased the distance to the car in front to about 3 times what I would normally. The cars both in front and behind maintained normal spacing. There's a long hill with a sweeping left bend and about half way down I could see a car about 6 or 7 cars ahead loosing it and starting to go sideways. I lifted right off the throttle and very gently tried some brake. The car slowed a little but I could feel and hear the ABS firing off. Luckily the road is quite wide and falls away to the curbside and I noticed everyone was now locking up their wheels and sliding into the curbside. I moderated my brake pressure so I could maintain steering and placed the car astride where the white line would be if I could have seen it. Maintaining gentle brake pressure and because I had plenty of room to the car in front allowed me to get out of the line of cars who were all crashing nose to tail and come gently to a halt beside the car in front of the one which had been immediately in front of me when it all kicked off - ie two car lengths in front of where I would have contacted the car in front if I hadn't been able to maintain steering. I was lucky in that the road was nice and wide and no cars were coming the other way, but you just have to take your chances in these circumstances. None of the cars were seriously damaged but all had minor bumper and N/S wheel rim damage where they'd ridden the curb. If everyone had backed off and left more room to the car in front There probably wouldn't have been a problem, but I'd take bets that some would still have lost control and crashed because their brains would have stopped working when the car started sliding.

Everyone should compulsorily do a few sessions on a skid pan as part of driver training in my view. There's nothing like actually experiencing a vehicle loosing grip and then controlling it. You can't teach that on the public road or in a class room. The nearest we get to it is those of us who've ridden motor cycles before we went to 4 wheels. Or, perhaps, spent time thrashing old motors around fields when still too young to hold a licence. You learn a great deal of respect for road surfaces on a 'bike!

 

[portland_bill]

I'm always looking very well ahead and tend to slow on a trailing throttle changing gear as necessary with a wee bit of braking to "fine tune" if needed. I try to keep things gentle and flowing so that no heavy braking is needed while carrying as much speed as reasonably possible to conserve momentum then using no more than moderate acceleration to build up speed again.

Sadly, very few people look ahead. Most focus about 2 car lengths ahead, and driving is a series of surprises as things change ahead of them. Looking well ahead, gives time to assess, and change speed or position early, to avoid conflicts, aided by experience. again, sadly, so many people I meet do not use their experience, and fail to anticipate anything.

When the parameters move outside that - due to excessive speed, slippery surfaces or whatever - the everyday driver, with no training in skid control (and I mean actually doing it, not just talking about "keeping off the brake pedal" or "steering into the skid") is used to the vehicle going roughly where it's pointed and slowing down when the brake pedal is pressed. When it doesn't do that they tend to just panic, stamp on the brakes and try to steer out of trouble. Which actually, with ABS brakes is probably their best course of action?

There's a phrase becoming all too frequent, "slam on". Many people who use that phrase have no concept of anticipation.

Everyone should compulsorily do a few sessions on a skid pan as part of driver training in my view. There's nothing like actually experiencing a vehicle loosing grip and then controlling it. You can't teach that on the public road or in a class room. The nearest we get to it is those of us who've ridden motor cycles before we went to 4 wheels. Or, perhaps, spent time thrashing old motors around fields when still too young to hold a licence. You learn a great deal of respect for road surfaces on a 'bike!

I had a skid pan session, many years ago, lots of fun. Nearest I can get to it these days is a large car park, covered in snow. I know of one, with no kerbs, lampposts, etc., so all clear to slide about, gently. When we get a little snow, I've always encouraged my students to drive in it, and then we slide on the car park, learning the causes, too much accelerator, steering or braking, or a combination. Sometimes we reach 15mph.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I had a skid pan session, many years ago, lots of fun. Nearest I can get to it these days is a large car park, covered in snow. I know of one, with no kerbs, lampposts, etc., so all clear to slide about, gently. When we get a little snow, I've always encouraged my students to drive in it, and then we slide on the car park, learning the causes, too much accelerator, steering or braking, or a combination. Sometimes we reach 15mph.

Well done you. I mean for taking your students onto that car park for practice. Yes, you don't need to go fast and can learn a lot without the fear factor when speeds are low and there's no danger of hitting anything - Lots of "fun" too.

 

[s130]

This might get some response

For normal driving never have your foot on the clutch and brake pedal at the same time unless finally coming to a stop. Once mastered it becomes sort of second nature. Note! Excludes emergency stopping.

Think about it next time you drive and look at what your feet are doing.

 

[irc]

This might get some response

For normal driving never have your foot on the clutch and brake pedal at the same time unless finally coming to a stop. Once mastered it becomes sort of second nature. Note! Excludes emergency stopping.

Think about it next time you drive and look at what your feet are doing.

(And then do an emergency stop coz you weren't looking where you were going)

 

[The Panda Nut]

We looked at them during my dad's never ending car hunt...

They just aren't particularly nice and they aren't cheap enough now to be that unpleasant.

Will absolutely do the job but makes the C3 feel like a quality item..

Speaking of quality items..I'm half heartedly looking for cars I don't need to buy one until next year but I'm keeping an eye out to see if there's anything that catches my eye.

This did cos it's relevant to my interests, old enough not to be filled with all sorts of shite and new enough to have the bits I want..also quite reasonable in terms of price.

View attachment 451470

However...before I get excited about things I tend to check the MOT history to see what kind of life a car has lead.

View attachment 451471

You wat m8?

Mot fail at 6 years for corroded brake pipes...good old northern weather. NG would be a local car. Wonder what condition the rest of the underside is in.

Previous owner probably lived on Holy Island...

Holy Island explains it all. I went there on hols, better hose the panda off underside!

 

[The Panda Nut]

Courtesy and 4x4, not usually combined in any way.

Huh! I hope your not making inferences about Panda 4x4 drivers!

 

[The Panda Nut]

That’s just it, the panda is the second most expensive car after the fiesta on the lot. There seems to be no logic to it as they appeared to be in similar condition, the mileages on the tickets are within 5k of each other but the jap jobs are cheaper.
There are cheaper cars on the lot, mainly Kia and the 1007, but apart from the 1007, all have 1500cc or more, are bigger and not really suitable due to stupid rip off insurance

Easy. Pandas are bestist.

 

[s130]

(And then do an emergency stop coz you weren't looking where you were going)

I asked for that! Well done!

 

[StevenRB45]

Holy Island explains it all. I went there on hols, better hose the panda off underside!

No apparently not..

While having my C3 related open wallet surgery today I spotted this, which looked lovely..

Stock | Newcastle Upon Tyne & Silverlink Park | Wingrove Motor Group

Find out more about Stock available from Wingrove Motor Group in Newcastle Upon Tyne & Silverlink Park. Explore the models we stock and discover the affordable used car offers available,

www.wingrovemotorgroup.co.uk

Failed it's first MOT 4 years old on brake pipes...then the next one on other brake pipes.

Corrosion advisories covering most of the underside last few...I need to find one that's not been kept in the UK apparently.

While my old one was a little crispy underneath after 10 years it had never failed an MOT or had brake pipes replaced. Apparently the new ones aren't as well made.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I asked for that! Well done!

I suppose heel and toe changes are out then... Not that i do them in the Panda, it doesnt encourage that style of driving. Nor does my age now. When else would one transgress, especially as I have a raw hatred of people who dont use the handbrake when stationary, especially at night, when I want them to DIE.






Slowly and painfully!

 

[s130]

I suppose heel and toe changes are out then... Not that i do them in the Panda, it doesnt encourage that style of driving. Nor does my age now. When else would one transgress, especially as I have a raw hatred of people who dont use the handbrake when stationary, especially at night, when I want them to DIE.

Slowly and painfully!

Well heel and toe changes, certainly in some Italian cars and my Uno were basically off the menu without pedal size and offset changes. In my Uno tried it several times in my motorsport days and when on the limit one could very easily crash the car. The "never have your foot on the clutch and brake at the same time" was fun to master with limited time and space whilst trying to maintain lap times. When doing thousands of laps a year you have to be kind to the clutch, brake and gearbox synchros if you wanted to keep costs and mechanical wear down.

In the old days (prior to syncromesh boxes) you had to double de-clutch. For motorsport the "crash straight cut gearboxes" allowed rapid clutch less changes. You can still today on a manual box to a clutch less gear change but lack of straight cut gear cogs makes this more difficult and far slower.

I think we all complain (to an extent) about driver aids removing skills and awareness and tend to lead us to lazy habits.

 

[porta]

The art of driving with no synchros, or no pedal, is doing it without having to double de clutch, and being able to do it dropping down the box as well as you can do it up-box.

 

[The Panda Nut]

The art of driving with no synchros, or no pedal, is doing it without having to double de clutch, and being able to do it dropping down the box as well as you can do it up-box.

I learned to drive without the clutch 40 years ago when a clutch cable snapped. I found I could change without any trauma to the box or me quite happily. If I cant get the gears to change smoothly without the clutch on a proposed purchase i dont buy it. I see it failing the test as the sign of a poor gear box. Pandas are not the easiest, but practice makes perfect. All this just in time and just adequate parts nonsense makes it more likely no to break things.

My Golf was the easiest by far it may have been the DSG box had something to do with it. Vauxhalls were also easy to make smooth. Panda will do this but is not easy and it makes me fearful of breaking it. I cant imagine my wife doing this at all, ever.... Its more difficult to drive without a foot brake, but I have done this too. (Many many years ago officer) Frightening its now 50 years since I passed my test and 60 since I got taught to drive in the garden by my dad in my mums new mini. He was a generous man. I won't let anyone drive my Panda except under a) protest and b) Threat of death if its not returned in 100% A1 condition. not L (ol) at all!