What Shocked You Today

[FiatMatt94]

I learned to drive without the clutch 40 years ago when a clutch cable snapped. I found I could change without any trauma to the box or me quite happily. If I cant get the gears to change smoothly without the clutch on a proposed purchase i dont buy it. I see it failing the test as the sign of a poor gear box. Pandas are not the easiest, but practice makes perfect. All this just in time and just adequate parts nonsense makes it more likely no to break things.

My Golf was the easiest by far it may have been the DSG box had something to do with it. Vauxhalls were also easy to make smooth. Panda will do this but is not easy and it makes me fearful of breaking it. I cant imagine my wife doing this at all, ever.... Its more difficult to drive without a foot brake, but I have done this too. (Many many years ago officer) Frightening its now 50 years since I passed my test and 60 since I got taught to drive in the garden by my dad in my mums new mini. He was a generous man. I won't let anyone drive my Panda except under a) protest and b) Threat of death if its not returned in 100% A1 condition. not L (ol) at all!

When I passed my test & got the Cinquecento I used to change gear in that without the clutch as I sussed with that particular car at certain low revs you could just change without it crunching I remember my dad teaching me to drive across his mate's field when I was 11 in an old Panda 1000 CL & the MK1 Punto 55 SX he had after which I nearly reversed into a lake , he's the only person I allow & trust to drive my cars, no one else has the privilege to drive my budget Maserati he borrowed the Seicento this morning to go to the shops & when i handed him the key i went "don't get her dirty" she came back to me as clean as she went apart from a faulty indicator which was sorted less than 10 mins later after cleaning up the holder

 

[s130]

Well I passed my test at 17, first time, and now 52 years ago. My instructor was brilliant, gave and built my confidence and focused on what I personally needed.

I remember him say things like, it's a 30/40/50/60 ... limit so if safe "go for it, don't hang about". Basically building confidence and trust in your own personal assessment of what was practical and possible. Was never reprimanded either for going too slow, timidity or over cooking my road judgement or abilities. I would possibly argue he was gently pushing my limits (under his control) for me to self learn judge and take control whilst maintaining good road progress etc.

I'm not sure how today's driving instructors and testers operate etc. but I do really appreciate in my day being driven to maximise the tarmac/road in-front of me safely and with confidence and safety and not just that was required to pass the test.

 

[porta]

I learned to drive without the clutch 40 years ago when a clutch cable snapped. I found I could change without any trauma to the box or me quite happily. If I cant get the gears to change smoothly without the clutch on a proposed purchase i dont buy it. I see it failing the test as the sign of a poor gear box. Pandas are not the easiest, but practice makes perfect. All this just in time and just adequate parts nonsense makes it more likely no to break things.

My Golf was the easiest by far it may have been the DSG box had something to do with it. Vauxhalls were also easy to make smooth. Panda will do this but is not easy and it makes me fearful of breaking it. I cant imagine my wife doing this at all, ever.... Its more difficult to drive without a foot brake, but I have done this too. (Many many years ago officer) Frightening its now 50 years since I passed my test and 60 since I got taught to drive in the garden by my dad in my mums new mini. He was a generous man. I won't let anyone drive my Panda except under a) protest and b) Threat of death if its not returned in 100% A1 condition. not L (ol) at all!

We had a 2CV come in with no clutch pedal NO ONE wanted to take that to the compound so we towed it there…the worst one I ever drove was a Renault with a column change, you could not do that by feel or revs, crunched in every gear

 

[The Panda Nut]

We had a 2CV come in with no clutch pedal NO ONE wanted to take that to the compound so we towed it there…the worst one I ever drove was a Renault with a column change, you could not do that by feel or revs, crunched in every gear

I think the 2cv was a case of just put it in a gear then press the gas, Im not sure how you would change up afterwards though. I understand they have a number of gears.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Well I passed my test at 17, first time, and now 52 years ago. My instructor was brilliant, gave and built my confidence and focused on what I personally needed.

I remember him say things like, it's a 30/40/50/60 ... limit so if safe "go for it, don't hang about". Basically building confidence and trust in your own personal assessment of what was practical and possible. Was never reprimanded either for going too slow, timidity or over cooking my road judgement or abilities. I would possibly argue he was gently pushing my limits (under his control) for me to self learn judge and take control whilst maintaining good road progress etc.

I'm not sure how today's driving instructors and testers operate etc. but I do really appreciate in my day being driven to maximise the tarmac/road in-front of me safely and with confidence and safety and not just that was required to pass the test.

My instructor was not unlike this. His favourite phrase was "get them brakes going early" again good advice. I always reckon if the brakes are already on gently before you need to stop hard, stability control is increased vastly. He also taught me that accelerating away out of trouble was a better tactic than trying to pull up after it happened. Passing back then, and subsequently developing experience to handle todays chaos was, I am sure, much easier than trying to learn in todays conditions must be. Hats off to trainers and learners who suceed now.

 

[porta]

I think the 2cv was a case of just put it in a gear then press the gas, Im not sure how you would change up afterwards though. I understand they have a number of gears.

That stupid ‘in-out-turn-it-all-about’ umbrella gearstick was a pain

 

[FiatMatt94]

My instructor was not unlike this. His favourite phrase was "get them brakes going early" again good advice. I always reckon if the brakes are already on gently before you need to stop hard, stability control is increased vastly. He also taught me that accelerating away out of trouble was a better tactic than trying to pull up after it happened. Passing back then, and subsequently developing experience to handle todays chaos was, I am sure, much easier than trying to learn in todays conditions must be. Hats off to trainers and learners who suceed now.

My dad taught me a lot of what I know about driving & using the throttle to get out of trouble was one of the things he taught me & I've used it on many occasions, also from the way I drove when I was younger I got into the habit of looking well ahead as not only do I look at the car in front but also look upto 4 - 5 cars ahead as well, also I notice with a lot of people nowadays you see them put their whole foot on the pedals whereas I'll be like heel & toe, I don't really tend to use the brakes that much either as I live in the countryside so I get to a steady speed & throw them about a bit in a high gear whilst keeping up the momentum, the best brakes I've come across though are 7.5 inch Classic Mini Cooper S disc brakes on terms of both performance & longevity, I had these on my old Mini & will be converting my current Mini at some point next year & they were great, 2.5 years after installing them I'd taken the car of the road & when I stripped it down the pads still had loads of meat left on them, although my driving style is a little on the old fashioned side but in a good way as the standard of some of the driving nowadays is just awful & you have to question how on earth they got a licence in the first place

 

[s130]

also I notice with a lot of people nowadays you see them put their whole foot on the pedals whereas I'll be like heel & toe,

Different heel and toe. Yes some people lift the whole foot, i.e. toes and heel and press the brake pedal with ball of foot and heel of the floor and in the air. Others keep the heel on the floor and swivel the ball of the foot over to the brake. A lot depends on pedal positions and height and size of you foot.

The real "heel and toe" is where you use the heel of your foot to control the throttle and the toes to control the brake. This allow you to brake, change gear and engine rev match all at the some time. Also for rallying etc. it enable you to keep the engine on power and driving whilst also moderating optimum drive and controlled braking all at the same time. You will see this on rally cars going through loose surface bends when the brake lights are on but the wheels are still driving hard.

 

[portland_bill]

Whilst changing gear without using the clutch is possible, it should only be used when necessary, such as when the clutch mechanism fails. The synchromesh rings are designed to operate without load, and will wear significantly faster if loaded.

 

[The Panda Nut]

One trailer load of smokeless fuel £337. Shut even me up for a while.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

I had my first close up look at the fiat 600 today, and I have to say I am severely underwhelmed.

I parked next to it in my wife’s mini and for a car that had been heavily criticised for being “small” and with fiats response to that being “well yeah it’s a small car” a replacement for the Punto is how they’re marketing, it takes up the same footprint as my wife’s much more spacious countryman. The wheel base looks to be about the same and it is possibly not as wide but it’s not the width that motoring journalists have complained about but the lack of rear leg room and boot space.

The next thing to consider is the styling, our mini is a late 2017 model which is begining to look a little out of date compared to newer countryman’s and the glut of EVs covered in LED lights etc. the 600 just looks a bit plain, a bit dull, next to our mini you’d be forgiven for thinking they are similarly aged cars the overall feel of the styling is very similar.

Finally and not shown in the pictures obviously but taking a look through the window it all seemed a little cheap, I get fiat has a history of making cheap cars and we have come to expect cheap interiors but this is not a cheap car.

Overall it has left me thinking that this could be a repeat of what happened with the Fiat 500L a car that was supposed to fit neatly into that b/c segment car space, along side the golf, focus, Astra, type vehicle.

The 500L was supposed to replace the Punto but failed massively to connect with the target demographic which was mothers of Young families moving up from the 500 now they have children, it ended up being more popular with older people due to the easy access and high sitting position and so the younger customers were turned off.

I can see the same happening with the 600 now I have looked at it, in person there is nothing that sticks out as particularly fun or funky, nothing really catches the imagination, this particular car had all the signs of being driven by someone much older and potentially with disabilities as it had a steering knob and some other things not suggestive of a younger driver.

Literally as I took this picture a Jeep Avenger drove past which was yellow, and is based on the same platform for similar money, yet the looks and appeal of the Avenger was head and shoulders above the 600. It looked modern, stood out in a bold colour with some really nice wheels.

This had not given me any confidence that fiat have found their niche I really don’t think this car gives a very positive outlook for Fiat’s future. Don’t get me wrong I am not saying It’s a bad car or that there is anything obviously wrong with the looks, it just doesn’t stand out, it doesn’t make me want one and I think a lot of people will feel the same.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Another thing that shocked me

Some complete lunatic/masochist has installed a V6 engine in a Daiwoo Matiz, with now 220hp and Porsche 18 inch wheels….. the video I saw this in showed a side profile which had massive breaks on the front, great big 4 pot calipers, but the back had no visible rear brakes at all they were completely hidden by the wheels and it looked like they had just left the old drums in place. The inside was completely standard with the chairs that have no support at all.

The Matiz was not famed for its driver aids or technology, so I can only think that if driven with any gusto it would very quickly lose rear traction, on braking it would probably pirouette better than a ballerina, and the safety systems would be as useful as a fridge in the Antarctic, so I think this is basically a very good way to very quickly kill your self

 

[Greasytrucker]

Another thing that shocked me

View attachment 454609
Some complete lunatic/masochist has installed a V6 engine in a Daiwoo Matiz, with now 220hp and Porsche 18 inch wheels….. the video I saw this in showed a side profile which had massive breaks on the front, great big 4 pot calipers, but the back had no visible rear brakes at all they were completely hidden by the wheels and it looked like they had just left the old drums in place. The inside was completely standard with the chairs that have no support at all.

The Matiz was not famed for its driver aids or technology, so I can only think that if driven with any gusto it would very quickly lose rear traction, on braking it would probably pirouette better than a ballerina, and the safety systems would be as useful as a fridge in the Antarctic, so I think this is basically a very good way to very quickly kill your self

I’d drive it

 

[PuntoHowTo]

I’d drive it

It still managed to make the qtr mile look dull lmao

 

[Greasytrucker]

It still managed to make the qtr mile look dull lmao

Yes fair point, you’d have thought it’d at least do a burnout with all that power

 

[StevenRB45]

I had my first close up look at the fiat 600 today, and I have to say I am severely underwhelmed.

I parked next to it in my wife’s mini and for a car that had been heavily criticised for being “small” and with fiats response to that being “well yeah it’s a small car” a replacement for the Punto is how they’re marketing, it takes up the same footprint as my wife’s much more spacious countryman. The wheel base looks to be about the same and it is possibly not as wide but it’s not the width that motoring journalists have complained about but the lack of rear leg room and boot space.
View attachment 454608
The next thing to consider is the styling, our mini is a late 2017 model which is begining to look a little out of date compared to newer countryman’s and the glut of EVs covered in LED lights etc. the 600 just looks a bit plain, a bit dull, next to our mini you’d be forgiven for thinking they are similarly aged cars the overall feel of the styling is very similar.

Finally and not shown in the pictures obviously but taking a look through the window it all seemed a little cheap, I get fiat has a history of making cheap cars and we have come to expect cheap interiors but this is not a cheap car.

Overall it has left me thinking that this could be a repeat of what happened with the Fiat 500L a car that was supposed to fit neatly into that b/c segment car space, along side the golf, focus, Astra, type vehicle.

The 500L was supposed to replace the Punto but failed massively to connect with the target demographic which was mothers of Young families moving up from the 500 now they have children, it ended up being more popular with older people due to the easy access and high sitting position and so the younger customers were turned off.

I can see the same happening with the 600 now I have looked at it, in person there is nothing that sticks out as particularly fun or funky, nothing really catches the imagination, this particular car had all the signs of being driven by someone much older and potentially with disabilities as it had a steering knob and some other things not suggestive of a younger driver.

Literally as I took this picture a Jeep Avenger drove past which was yellow, and is based on the same platform for similar money, yet the looks and appeal of the Avenger was head and shoulders above the 600. It looked modern, stood out in a bold colour with some really nice wheels.

This had not given me any confidence that fiat have found their niche I really don’t think this car gives a very positive outlook for Fiat’s future. Don’t get me wrong I am not saying It’s a bad car or that there is anything obviously wrong with the looks, it just doesn’t stand out, it doesn’t make me want one and I think a lot of people will feel the same.

I saw one at MetroCentre today...

To be honest didn't give it a second look, my first thoughts on seeing it back when it was launched were "oh great heres something they've smashed out the door while changing the bare minimum..." That's not really changed.

The Grande Panda should be the first "proper" Fiat of the new era..the 600 to me is a quick reskin of the renegade.

The Matiz has "you got so caught up in what could do you didn't stop to think of you should" energy...seen it before but cool project.

 

[chris3234]

I had my first close up look at the fiat 600 today, and I have to say I am severely underwhelmed.

I parked next to it in my wife’s mini and for a car that had been heavily criticised for being “small” and with fiats response to that being “well yeah it’s a small car” a replacement for the Punto is how they’re marketing, it takes up the same footprint as my wife’s much more spacious countryman. The wheel base looks to be about the same and it is possibly not as wide but it’s not the width that motoring journalists have complained about but the lack of rear leg room and boot space.
View attachment 454608
The next thing to consider is the styling, our mini is a late 2017 model which is begining to look a little out of date compared to newer countryman’s and the glut of EVs covered in LED lights etc. the 600 just looks a bit plain, a bit dull, next to our mini you’d be forgiven for thinking they are similarly aged cars the overall feel of the styling is very similar.

Finally and not shown in the pictures obviously but taking a look through the window it all seemed a little cheap, I get fiat has a history of making cheap cars and we have come to expect cheap interiors but this is not a cheap car.

Overall it has left me thinking that this could be a repeat of what happened with the Fiat 500L a car that was supposed to fit neatly into that b/c segment car space, along side the golf, focus, Astra, type vehicle.

The 500L was supposed to replace the Punto but failed massively to connect with the target demographic which was mothers of Young families moving up from the 500 now they have children, it ended up being more popular with older people due to the easy access and high sitting position and so the younger customers were turned off.

I can see the same happening with the 600 now I have looked at it, in person there is nothing that sticks out as particularly fun or funky, nothing really catches the imagination, this particular car had all the signs of being driven by someone much older and potentially with disabilities as it had a steering knob and some other things not suggestive of a younger driver.

Literally as I took this picture a Jeep Avenger drove past which was yellow, and is based on the same platform for similar money, yet the looks and appeal of the Avenger was head and shoulders above the 600. It looked modern, stood out in a bold colour with some really nice wheels.

This had not given me any confidence that fiat have found their niche I really don’t think this car gives a very positive outlook for Fiat’s future. Don’t get me wrong I am not saying It’s a bad car or that there is anything obviously wrong with the looks, it just doesn’t stand out, it doesn’t make me want one and I think a lot of people will feel the same.

If you hadn't of said if have just thought it was a 500x or with some different panels and lights on

 

[PuntoHowTo]

If you hadn't of said if have just thought it was a 500x or with some different panels and lights on

Doesn’t exactly stand out does it.