Technical New oil 100HP
- Thread starter cwmitch
- Start date
Currently reading:
Technical New oil 100HP
Hang on!
PNL's only saying what he does and how it affects his car. Don't recall him recomending it at all. Purly just saying that it would seem to be ok in his 16v, ok!
FFS, no wonder the world is at bloody war over petty things :bang:
Out of interest, any idea why this manual suggests Selenia 20K, which is 10w40?
I plan to supply Mobil Super S 10w40 to my dealer for my 1st service, as it will save me money and meets the same standards (ACEA and API?) the 20K does.
Spec sheets..
Mobil Super S
Selenia 20K
OK lets take this a little further..and Dave deary I know you would love to ban me cupcake you have been trying for years now..
OK the 1.4 stilo of my wife was actually supplies with 10w /40 in the engine ..and then out of the blue they [fiat ]decide to tell us that 20K is no longer available and that ALL cars will from now on be filled with the wide range of oil..I have stuck with 20K because I actually believe that the thinner oil may be causing the dieseling on the 1.4 engines..why you might say ..well as we all know an oil of a thinner viscosity wont hang around on the vital parts of an engine like a thicker one will and it Will drain back to the sump leaving said parts open to premature ware..I have my self always done an extra service in between the 12 month stipulated by fiat for the reason of {1} I dont think the 10/40 is up to performing for the full 12 months or stipulated time set down by fiat and [2] my wife does mainly short trips and oils can become contaminated very quickly when doing short journeys continually..I my self have conducted this experiment with her car and to date the engine has not suffered in any way and it hasn't got the caracturistic deiseling experienced by others..
So dave on this one I think its best to say we agree to disagree..my experiment has proven to me actual facts where as you have taken info from here and there and given us what you believe to be correct..so as I said we agree to disagree on this one..
OK the 1.4 stilo of my wife was actually supplies with 10w /40 in the engine ..and then out of the blue they [fiat ]decide to tell us that 20K is no longer available and that ALL cars will from now on be filled with the wide range of oil..I have stuck with 20K because I actually believe that the thinner oil may be causing the dieseling on the 1.4 engines..why you might say ..well as we all know an oil of a thinner viscosity wont hang around on the vital parts of an engine like a thicker one will and it Will drain back to the sump leaving said parts open to premature ware..I have my self always done an extra service in between the 12 month stipulated by fiat for the reason of {1} I dont think the 10/40 is up to performing for the full 12 months or stipulated time set down by fiat and [2] my wife does mainly short trips and oils can become contaminated very quickly when doing short journeys continually..I my self have conducted this experiment with her car and to date the engine has not suffered in any way and it hasn't got the caracturistic deiseling experienced by others..
So dave on this one I think its best to say we agree to disagree..my experiment has proven to me actual facts where as you have taken info from here and there and given us what you believe to be correct..so as I said we agree to disagree on this one..
Last edited:
Considering this and a few other posts this is what I have to say:
5W30 would be approximately 30% thinner across the whole operating temperature range compared to the 5W40 which is completely unnaceptable. Having an oil of the proper operating temp viscosity (number after the W) is much more important than the cold temp viscosity (number before the W), at least in this country.
The cold temp viscosity only becomes as important if you are considering extreme cold starts such as -30C ambient, where you would need 0W40. This is because the oil needs to be very thin to crank at such low ambient temps. So there's no reason to put in a 0W40 oil over 5W40 or 10W40 here unless you can't get any other. A 10W40 will go down to -10C which is fine. As the first number decreases the price usually increases (for the same quality) because of this cold start capability.
The reason Fiat is saying 5W40 now as well as 10W40 is just to simply increase their cold start capabilities. This is because they realised ambient temps lower than -10C are possible here, but certainly not usual which would then lean towards 0W40. The age/type of the engine is irrelevant in this argument, this is because the difference between 5W40 and 10W40 is small once the oil is up to about 30C. The differences between 'cold' grade and 'hot' grade is often misunderstood.
So basically:
0W40 for down to -30C
5W40 for down to -20C
10W40 for down to -10C
You can see which is the most appropriate for us.
It's when people think they can go from say 10W30 to 10W40 or vice-versa that it starts to wreak havoc with the hydraulics of the engine. Remember all the crank, con rod and cam shaft bearings etc are hydraulic bearings after all.
So if possible stick to the recommended multigrade, failing this you can compromise on the first number, NOT the second.
On the topic of oil life viscosity plays no part, this is related to quality which can be determined by ACEA number. An oil of ACEA A3 will last 12 months or 10,000 miles without severe viscosity degredation even though you might be itching to change it and it may appear nackered (black sludge etc) when you do. This is assuming the car is not ragged everywhere. If it is you can divide the life by 3.
You could say about ACEA A1 and A2 that they will not last the 12 months or 10,000 miles without severe viscosity degredation so you can take that as you will. If you only do 3,000 miles a year A1 may be sufficient but then it still needs changing. If you do 6,000 miles a year A2 may be sufficient but then it still needs changing. You cannot stretch A1 to 10,000 miles over 3 years for example. This is why A1 and A2 oils are peanuts to buy compared to A3 oils. I personally would not use an oil less than A3, taking into account short trips etc. However if your particular engine requires A3 this is what you must use regardless of usage / mileage.
So the bottom line is you must stick to your ACEA quality grade and the operating temperature viscosity grade which is the number after the W. You can choose which winter viscosity grade (number before the W) you require for your ambient temperature.
I know some cars are running more smoothly with the lower winter grades but we are talking in the region of 10-15% lower viscosity at dead cold from 10W40 to 5W40 .
It's because Selenia 20K meets Fiat's own spec (I forget the number), rather than the 5W40 / 10W40 argument.
Cheers,
Dan
Last edited:
no need to be so fasty Dave, as a moderator you should be setting an example of how to conduct oneself on a forum
its out of date that is why
no need to be so fasty Dave, as a moderator you should be setting an example of how to conduct oneself on a forum
straight after being told about oilman getting banned for keep on says use the non recomended grade oil he again posts he cant find nothing wrong with it. comment about his ears is from his own postings that they are not that good. how can saying he cant hear no noise be valid if he himself has said his ears dont work too good
it is fact and been proven many times that going from 10w to 5w gets the tappets working quicker and gets rid of the noise
Last edited:
you are still missing the point
it is all about diffusing conflict rather than stoking the flames, the issue itself becomes secondary when passions are inflamed
you don't see a Referee throwing themselves on the floor writhing in agony in a Football match, that is the Player's job.
As a moderator you should rise above things, or take them backstage
This can be true, I assume we are talking about oils other than Selenia?
Remember a particular 10W40 can actually be thinner at low temps than a particular 5W40 depending on viscosities the manufacturer has chosen within the spec. Of course typical oils will usually have viscosities as you expect.
This is one of the reasons for car manufacturer grades such as Fiat or VW for example, because they have specific viscosities they want to see at cold temps for a particular grade, because the cold grades can very so wildly within spec.
So for example a Fiat spec'ed 5W40 oil could actually be thinner than a 0W40 at 0C. I'm not saying they are it's just an example.
I'll have a look at the cst's of some common oils to see if 5W40 is really much thinner than 10W40 in most cases. Does anybody want particular oils compared to each other? It would make my job easier.
Things get complicated quite quickly
Cheers,
Dan
Last edited:
As a moderator you should rise above things, or take them backstage
it is info that was needed in the thread to make sure members get the right tech info. not just let one bloke post his 1 experiance with one engine just to keep him happy.
it wouldnt be no good posted back stage
Can you expand on this? Link to said 'data sheets'?
I'd rather see it for myself than take your word for it. After all, that is what much of this discussion is about.
When booking my 100hp service I was advised by the dealer that they would use 10w40. If I was certain of the correct grade I could go and get it for them and take home the rest for top-ups.
Can you expand on this? Link to said 'data sheets'?
I'd rather see it for myself than take your word for it. After all, that is what much of this discussion is about.
When booking my 100hp service I was advised by the dealer that they would use 10w40. If I was certain of the correct grade I could go and get it for them and take home the rest for top-ups.
use search info was posted a lot by fiat techs on here when they first came out
Can you expand on this? Link to said 'data sheets'?
I'd rather see it for myself than take your word for it. After all, that is what much of this discussion is about.
When booking my 100hp service I was advised by the dealer that they would use 10w40. If I was certain of the correct grade I could go and get it for them and take home the rest for top-ups.
here you go
http://www.flitalia.it/en/fl/component/option,com_dspcatprod/Itemid,254/
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2004
- Messages
- 25,218
- Points
- 3,672
I just use any semi/fully synth oil I can get in my hands cheap. It REALLY DOESN'T MATTER.
My Punto 1.4 16v (same engine as Panda 100hp and Stilo 1.4) has now covered 82,000miles engine sounds sweet as a nut. I mostly use 10w/40 fully synth. Last change I used Tesco Fully synth in the gold bottle (got it for £12 for 4Litres!).
And I agree with PNL mine sounds worse using 0w/40 - 5w/40 while cold for the same reason as PNL explained about it being too runny.
The first rating only takes effect while cold anyway so who cares?.
My Punto 1.4 16v (same engine as Panda 100hp and Stilo 1.4) has now covered 82,000miles engine sounds sweet as a nut. I mostly use 10w/40 fully synth. Last change I used Tesco Fully synth in the gold bottle (got it for £12 for 4Litres!).
And I agree with PNL mine sounds worse using 0w/40 - 5w/40 while cold for the same reason as PNL explained about it being too runny.
The first rating only takes effect while cold anyway so who cares?.
Last edited:
so you know better than the engineers and technicians at Fiat that designed, developed and tested the engine
ah now i understand - silly me ...
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2004
- Messages
- 25,218
- Points
- 3,672
I couldn't care less tbh. Car is out of warranty. I use 10w/40. Car does a lot of miles and is absolutly fine. Just voicing MY EXPERIENCE.
In a colder climate I would use 5w/40.
It's also very strange how every Fiat dealer in my area I've took it too are using 10w/40 Selenia....
In a colder climate I would use 5w/40.
It's also very strange how every Fiat dealer in my area I've took it too are using 10w/40 Selenia....
just because the dealers do something doesn't make it correct - they don't pay the warranty bill Fiat the manufacturer do
my point is why take the risk, it is not unknown for Fiats multivalve engines to suffer from top end wear due to incorrect oil being used
the old 1.4 12v (Bravo/Brava) engine cams failed due to the wrong oil being used, should have been 5W/30 from memory - people used 10w/40 and caused failures - hence why I always use the manufacturer specified oil in the handbook
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2004
- Messages
- 25,218
- Points
- 3,672
My Point being the Dealers are FIAT Franchise so I assume have Fiat qualified tech/engineers working for them.
And If you want to mention different engines my Alfa 156's Crank bearings failed due to last owner using 5w/40 castrol.... Whats your point?.
And If you want to mention different engines my Alfa 156's Crank bearings failed due to last owner using 5w/40 castrol.... Whats your point?.
I always use the manufacturer specified oil in the handbook
or in any revisions they bring out
some one on this forum had full main dealer sh on their stilo abarth, that dealer put castrol gtx in, that engine died, big ends and other damage with less than 55k on it
