Technical KriTip's 1.2 16V Sei Project

[randomizered]

These things just get more complicated lol.

Fitted the alternator today, and it doesn't line up with the crank pulley in the slightest. It to far behind the engine, and the belt would have fouled the timing ring on the crank and probably killed the alternator bearings.

I thought about spacing the alternator further outwards, but then the belt would have fouled the engine mount! I presume the same would be true if I used the 16V alternator.

My solution is a bit of a hack, hence posting I would prefer a more elegant fix.

What I have done is swap the crank pulley/timing ring from the 1108 onto the 1248....this means the timing ring sensor doesn't line up now though!!! SO I have cut a custom piece of metal, screwed it into place using the old sensor screw, and will then drill the plate to move the sensor further out. Getting the right gap and making sure its secure is going to be VERY important

Its an ugly fix but I can't see any other way around it

I possibly could swap the 1108 oil pump (whose casing holds the sensor I think) over to the new engine, but that means dropping the whole thing and removing the belt/timing etc!! Something I'm reluctant to do as it a lot of effort for an unknown.

https://www.fiatforum.com/showpost.php?p=1022315&postcount=43

The above show the difference between the pulleys. The Punto has the ring next to the engine, then the pulley, thats why the belt can't fit with it.

Dave, you fitted your alternator yet? Which one? Any problems?

I'll post pics tomorrow of it if needed.

Lets hope there aren't many more problems I encounter

Cheers,

Kristian


/edit

also got my micrometer on the exhaust....for anyone whose interested that sei ID is about 34mm and the Punto SS manifold is about 50mm!!!! can't remember the exact measurements this lat, but that about 33% larger!! Def can't keep the current system after finding that out

 

[davethetrike]

Dave, you fitted your alternator yet? Which one? Any problems?

I'll post pics tomorrow of it if needed.

Lets hope there aren't many more problems I encounter

Cheers,

Kristian


QUOTE]


I saw that one coming when Jordan made my bottom pulley. Basically the pulley is the opposite way round and the pulley comes out further. The Punto has more room than the cinq so I simply opted for the 16v pulley. Interesting difference that is seldom mentioned in any of the other threads.
Standard 8v pulley on 16v crank

16V Pulley on 16v crank

Intrigueing PITA isn't it!

 

[randomizered]

Well, made some progress today but am fed up now and am calling it quits.

Here is the solution I used for the sensor. I have made a plate that hold it securely, further out than the normal position:





I've yet to measure the gap, but I have a document somewhere specifying the tolerance, and then I can adjust to suit.

Here is where the additional engine mount used to be...took a good 3 hours to angle grind and saw through it!!! At least its done now and I can refit the expansion tank



Now for the problems....the exhaust gasket in my kit doesn't fit the engine or manifold!! :bang: Spoke to factors and they MAY be able to help on Tuesday

Even worse though...I went to fit the intake manifold, I didn't have any bolts for it so ordered them direct from FIAT....They looked a bit long, but you'd think they were the right part, so i fitted the gasket, bit of hymol round the waterway, and proceeded to fit.

Then bolts are too long! I was doing it up and it came to a stop and started spinning Hope the thread in the head isn't stripped.

That means I have to wait till Tuesday for them to open, find out what parts I should have, and hope the head isn't screwed, or the gasket with dried on hymol.

For reference, here is the length of the thread on the head stud (the lower thread) compared to the bolts they gave me to fit the rest of the intake on. Anyone know what I SHOULD have to fit it??



Thats it for today, I'm about to explode lol..


Kristian

 

[T.E.D. Jordan]

Lol was going to say good progress but...

I used the same as the picture on the left for a 20mm wide plate i made for mark (arc) on his chii rebuild converting the head to MPI, the plate held studs the same length as that to bolt the MPI inlet onto and i sunk normal bolts into the plate to fit. Although thats irrelevant as its 8v and its now got a MPI head instead, the same would go for your inlet, i would have thought if my memore serves me correct, that the studs on the left is what you would need to use, and should be tightened into the head first (locktite'd) then you could swing the inlet over and put the nuts onto that.

Jordan

 

[randomizered]

The 16 valve uses 2 studs with nuts to hold it in alignment and then 8 bolts to hold it all in place and clamp it down.

The nuts for the studs are £2.50 each lol, so I was going to remove the studs and just bolt it all on (same thread).

However as the bolts down fit, I'm screwed till at least Tuesday

The inlet face thickness is on;y about 7-10mm, so it makes no sense the bolts have the top part unthreaded.

If anyone can tell me what part number 46747837 FIAT says it's for, I may be able to get a refund from my local dealer.

If anyone can give me the proper part number, even better

Kristian

 

[panda-sport]

The 16 valve uses 2 studs with nuts to hold it in alignment and then 8 bolts to hold it all in place and clamp it down.

My mk1 16v uses just studs and nuts, looks like you have the fittings for the mk2 manifold.

 

[The younger modder]

Hmmm unlucky lately doesnt seem as bolt in a conversion as it first seemed

will be worth all the effort though so good luck finnishing it all

wayne

 

[davethetrike]

My mk1 16v uses just studs and nuts, looks like you have the fittings for the mk2 manifold.

Mines the same, studs that is. With a very unusual nut size.....scared stiff of losing one.

You're at an impasse but keep going. Threads like this list problems that others will find, so you're helping lots of people out. My project has hit a halt for 2 reasons.
1 I removed the end of my thumb with a hacksaw....strange feeling looking at the top of your thumb with the nail attached on the workbench I would stress that this was accidental
2 The clutch still hasn't come, I now have to fit the engine without the clutch (I've hired a hoist) and fit the clutch later

Slow down, chill, it'll go.

 

[randomizered]

OMG I hope your OK dave...that doesn't sound good at all!!!! My gf's dad seems a little bit amused about all the PPE I wear, but it's times like this that remind you what can happed! Hope it all reattaches OK!!!!!!

Shocker about the studs if that is the case and they are all stud/nut. FIAT said the NUT was £2.50 per piece....that 10 I need, PLUS 10 studs!!!! Arghhh!

Anyone who does this in the future DON'T get a bare engine, little things costs lots!!! PLUS don't get a mk2 head as the engine mount is a PITA to remove.

Tomorrow its drive shafts, suspension and breaks as I can't do much up above now

Krisitan

 

[davethetrike]

OMG I hope your OK dave...that doesn't sound good at all!!!! My gf's dad seems a little bit amused about all the PPE I wear, but it's times like this that remind you what can happed! Hope it all reattaches OK!!!!!!

Shocker about the studs if that is the case and they are all stud/nut. FIAT said the NUT was £2.50 per piece....that 10 I need, PLUS 10 studs!!!! Arghhh!

Anyone who does this in the future DON'T get a bare engine, little things costs lots!!! PLUS don't get a mk2 head as the engine mount is a PITA to remove.

Tomorrow its drive shafts, suspension and breaks as I can't do much up above now


Krisitan

I'll do.
Go to a larger homebase or bandq whatever. They sell threaded rod, its metric fine iirc. Sometimes its called studding or studded rod Buy nuts to suit. Cut to length with a hacksaw (care with this bit) lol.
Job done cheaply. Used this on motorbike manifolds many times Take a bolt or stud to check the thread

 

[fingers99]

Or take what you've got to a fastener stockist. On the intake side, there's no real reason (unless access is a problem) not to use allen bolts/screws.

Annoying to think that what you need is gathering rust in a scrappy on the floor somewhere.......

 

[davethetrike]

Or take what you've got to a fastener stockist. On the intake side, there's no real reason (unless access is a problem) not to use allen bolts/screws.

Annoying to think that what you need is gathering rust in a scrappy on the floor somewhere.......

But, if you go to the breakers the bits you want will always be gone

 

[davethetrike]

Hows it going ?

 

[randomizered]

Slowly this week

I had some new studs and nuts machined up specifically, £15 for the 10 studs inc nuts. A reference taken from one mangled stud that was left in the head.

£15 is far nicer that FIAT's £50!!!!

I also got another exhaust gasket from the factors, no charge, and it fits.

The only thing I did this week was the hub nuts. 240Nm is a lot lol, my torque wrench only goes to 220Nm, but a gave a little extra turn

For those who need to do the hub nuts. I looked at Haynes with the funky tools to make and though stuff that! If you get some long strong bolts, you can pass them through the bolt hole in the hub and lock it in place was very quick and easy.

I discovered this technique AFTER i bent two wheel studs so I'll need to get them on order lol



This weekend though, intake and exhaust manifolds can go on.

Hopefully the Samco hose will be here, and I can fit the BMC.

Connect the fuel rail (very unsure if this will work capping of the fuel return line to the tank!)

Refit the plumbing and rad.

Do oil's.

and hopefully get it on all 4 of its feet again

I only have a day free though so it'll be a rush.

So desperate to get it on the road now, I miss driving lolol.

Will also have to speak to cc1 and JR soon about cloning and ECU :slayer:


I'll update after the work with some more pics to keep it interesting

Cheers,

Kristian

 

[fingers99]

For those who need to do the hub nuts. I looked at Haynes with the funky tools to make and though stuff that! If you get some long strong bolts, you can pass them through the bolt hole in the hub and lock it in place was very quick and easy.

Even quicker and easier is to put the spacesaver on and put the car in gear with the handbrake on! I thought everyone used this method!

Connect the fuel rail (very unsure if this will work capping of the fuel return line to the tank!)

I don't see how that could work. Why?

 

[J.R Racing]

I don't know what reference you got for the intake studs but mine were all new from Fiat and cost just over £2 each.

Sounds like some dodgy priciing to me!

 

[J.R Racing]

Ok just a quick note before you hit a snag, but you will need a longer throttle cable (forgot to mention this at an earlier date, sorry).

The Sei mpi one will not reach the 16v throttle body linkage.

We used one from a Cinq Sporting which seemed to be longer?!! And this worked a treat, was a very simply job to change though. Just unhook it from the pedal under the dash etc.

You may have considered this already, but this was certainly necessary with my car.

 

[randomizered]

I don't know what reference you got for the intake studs but mine were all new from Fiat and cost just over £2 each.

Sounds like some dodgy priciing to me!

Yeah £2 per stud and then £3 per nut For all 10 thats £50. Neither of could believe the nuts were £3 a piece!

I don't see how that could work. Why?

The Sei Doesn't have a return back to the tank, but the fuel rail i'm using does. The mk2 punto rail doesn't either but I don't have one of these. I figured I could just blank out the reurn on the rail. I'm not sure if this wlll work, but if the Punto mk2 and Sei don't return, then fingers crossed it will all be fine! Not sure on the finer detials of returnable vs non-returnable lines and my googling didn't come up with anything.

Even quicker and easier is to put the space saver on and put the car in gear with the handbrake on! I thought everyone used this method!

Don't even need the space saver, you can pop the little plastic wheel centers out, and do it from there.

Both sides were on stands though, no discs, spacers studs of calipers fitted. I didn't really want to have to refit both sides, drop it off the stands to do it.

Also when i was undoing them, handbrake on, in gear, on the floor, i was able to turn still spin the wheel a bit ....yes i did remove the staking But they were still though.

Cheers,

Kristian

 

[J.R Racing]

Well if mine works with the punto mk 1 rail, what do you have to worry about, its been done so it must work!

The punto mk 2 non returnable rail is no good anyway for more than one reason as me and Peter discovered.

Firstly the mk 2 fuel rail will not bolt onto the mk 1 metal inlet manifold. It will only fix onto a mk 2 plastic manifold which A is not as good a design but, also fizes onto the electronic throttle arrangement.

The mk 1 fuel rail bolts straight on to the inlet no probs, its then just a case of being blanked off to my knowlege.

 

[randomizered]

Ah, I thought you DID use the mk2 rail. Sure I read that somewhere. Must have been confused

Thanks OK then, no worries on that front then. I'll just have to figure out what to use to blank it off

Cheers,

Kristian