This practice is indeed widespread, but it doesn't make it right.
The OP contracted for a new car - not a new car with a reconditioned gearbox.
Technical I'm somewhat disappointed!
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Technical I'm somewhat disappointed!
This practice is indeed widespread, but it doesn't make it right.
The OP contracted for a new car - not a new car with a reconditioned gearbox.
Zact if you can see us down here from your high horse.
I suggest you straighten your facts and attitude out. If you can name a member who is a Fiat employee I'd be very much surprised I can only think of 1, who also hasn't logged in in over a year. As for people not being able to admit when they are wrong. Well perhaps you should change your name to Mr Pot and start making slurs based on colour against kettles.
Also as far as other manufacturers who will sometimes use reconditioned parts instead of new. I'm also aware of V.A.G Ford, Honda and Vauxhall doing it. Haven't worked closely enough in other franchises to see if any others do it. But it's a 100% hit rate of the places I have been able to look closely enough into. Not saying it's right, but am saying how it is.
I suggest you straighten your facts and attitude out. If you can name a member who is a Fiat employee I'd be very much surprised I can only think of 1, who also hasn't logged in in over a year. As for people not being able to admit when they are wrong. Well perhaps you should change your name to Mr Pot and start making slurs based on colour against kettles.
Also as far as other manufacturers who will sometimes use reconditioned parts instead of new. I'm also aware of V.A.G Ford, Honda and Vauxhall doing it. Haven't worked closely enough in other franchises to see if any others do it. But it's a 100% hit rate of the places I have been able to look closely enough into. Not saying it's right, but am saying how it is.
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Don't shoot the messenger, I am neither saying it is right or wrong but simply saying as it is. Never read the full warranty terms so it would be wrong of me to suggest anything as I would not be able to verify it however as I said earlier when a similar thing happened to me I just wanted my vehicle back on the road and to this day I don't know exactly what was done to it.
Personally speaking, I don't know really I would just like the car back on the road 100%. Is the issue here the mileage of the vehicle, if so where would the cut off point be?
Normally I'm quite easy going, but if my gearbox broke at 34 miles and the dealer tried to fit a recon gearbox (ie. someone else's old broken one) I'd probably resort to arson.
On the car or garage?
D4nny8oy
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Why does no-one listen? It's only the casing that is re-used, the important stuff that matters inside is brand new.
Cynic inside me is questioning what are the chances of a nearly new gearbox going bang so quickly/suddenly and then a recon (so basically new by the sounds of it) not sounding right straight off the bat without there being other factors wrong somewhere.
Maybe the statistical anomaly is this one!
Maybe the statistical anomaly is this one!
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because everyone's an expert?
Oh, I saw that. Still if I had a gearbox fail at 34 miles I'd be doing the dealer and the manufacturer a favour by not rejecting the car outright.
So I wouldn't want to see the term 'reconditioned' no matter how almost completely new the oily bits are.
Call me picky but there you go...
You are doing them a favour by rejecting it...
an easy fix and once its done, they can bump someone up the queue who was waiting but wants a car NOW!
Or am I cynical?
an easy fix and once its done, they can bump someone up the queue who was waiting but wants a car NOW!
Or am I cynical?
Why does no-one listen? It's only the casing that is re-used, the important stuff that matters inside is brand new.
Sadly not true. When a major assembly such as a gearbox is refurbished, some components will be replaced as a matter of course - precisely which ones will depend on the policy of the refurbishers. Other components will be inspected, and if found fit for further service, reused.
In the case of a gearbox, it's likely the bearings, seals & synchro rings will be routinely replaced. The cogs & layshaft will be inspected for missing or chipped teeth & dogs, but only replaced if found to be damaged.
This means your recon 'box may have pairs of gears where only one has been replaced, and used gears & shafts running in new bearings - both well known causes of gearbox whine.
Now I seem to recall the OP saying the car couldn't be returned after fitting the replacement 'box because it was whining....
Please don't misread what I'm saying here. Reconditioned major components can be a cost-effective way of repairing a secondhand car and often give many, many years of good service - but they're not the same as new, and the way in which this incident has been handled IMO falls far short of what a new car customer could reasonably expect.
I certainly wouldn't consider arson as a way forward; but I might at this point be contemplating litigation if the dealer wouldn't offer me a replacement new car.
OK so D4nny8oy used to work as a Fiat tech and says that it's just the casing that's reused....... why should his statement be doubted?
The easy way to answer that is the price difference. It's too much.
The labour involved in taking back a gearbox, stripping it down and replacing everything is more than the cost of a production gearbox.
There is no way they change everything, it wouldn't be cost effective. The reason the casing has to be servicable is exactly this reason, to swap everything over to a new casing cost too much, so it's cheaper to get a new one.
The labour involved in taking back a gearbox, stripping it down and replacing everything is more than the cost of a production gearbox.
There is no way they change everything, it wouldn't be cost effective. The reason the casing has to be servicable is exactly this reason, to swap everything over to a new casing cost too much, so it's cheaper to get a new one.
and I used to work as a consultant engineer for a large automotive parts manufacturing group, so why should mine?
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Perhaps because what D4nny8oy has personally experienced is not a guarantee that the same is universally repeated across different dealers and over different periods of time?
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I remember the days of keeping old bangers going with reconditioned parts - starter motors, alternators etc. Often the case was just given a shiny new coat of paint. Stripped down a starter motor to find it had been give just one new brush.
I would be asking for a new car now.
I would be asking for a new car now.
I have personal experience (not Fiat) with reconditioned parts, the gearboxes were rebuilt with new internals. The attention that went into these boxes was second to none infact the failure percentage rate was lower than the original manufactured units. Logically speaking it would of been better to use these boxes from the start but I assume in house boxes were cheaper.
What exactly is the difference between new and recon parts? Aslong as the recon part is working, built by qualified personel and guaranteed I dont see too much of an issue. Why do punto and grande punto (and panda, stilo) owners use reconditioned steering columns and not new genuine ones on a part that I would consider a safety item?
What exactly is the difference between new and recon parts? Aslong as the recon part is working, built by qualified personel and guaranteed I dont see too much of an issue. Why do punto and grande punto (and panda, stilo) owners use reconditioned steering columns and not new genuine ones on a part that I would consider a safety item?
There's nothing wrong with reconditioned parts (assuming they're done properly. Had a bad recon steering rack once) but on a new car you've just driven off the forecourt? No.
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Hmmmmm I understand what you are saying T but there is something a bit perverse about saying that it is ok to replace a brand new faulty gearbox with a second hand one because it is less likely to break than a new one...
