Technical I'm somewhat disappointed!

[Greyskull]

Thanks. As I said earlier, I did say to both the salesperson and service manager that I was considering a rejection. That along with contacting Fiat in Italy and the finance company obviously weighed things in my favour. Your earlier comments regarding rejection, VAT et al clarified things nicely so thanks for that.

Up till now I've not mentioned the selling dealer, but praise where due. . . :worship: Glyn Hopkins, Buckhurst Hill. From the Sales through to the Service Dep't - a big 10/10. Have kept me informed every step of the way.

As for free servicing, a good will gesture from Fiat has already been mentioned in this thread, but I'll deal directly with Fiat for that. Don't see why dealer should stump up for that . . .

 

[rallycinq]

It's academic, but here are some points.

Firstly you don't pay the VAT change on a replacement, it would be a zero tansaction as it is to replace faulty items.

Maybe yes, maybe no. If the car is on finance, as this one is, in the event of a rejection its the finance compant that own the car and they are hiring to the driver.

If a product is rejected then that finance deal has to be settled and a new agreement started for the new car.

A straight substitution of a car to an owner who used there own funds would depend on the terms of the supply.

Imagine, if you will, the dealer buys a new car to supply as the replacement car. He pays the VAT at the rate at the time of that purchase. He claims that back and reinvoices to the customer. If that invoice is dated after 4th Jan 2011, then HMRC are going to want the VAT at the new rate. Its going to be one hell of an arguement, possibly 5 years from now.

However, this is all hypothetical as the OP wil have his car back soon.

Cheers

D

 

[poggy]

It is still a zero transaction. Finance company gets car at zero cost, so no vat liability. The loan change is a transparent transaction.

There is no VAT invoice from dealer to finance company as it is zero amount. This is what happened in my case.

It's pretty straight forward.

By the way some of you with certain hire agreements will get an increase from next month as they are on nett + vat terms, so it will go up regardless of when you bought a car.

 

[Greyskull]

Folks - It Just gets better and better

The Gearbox saga continues. . .new gearbox fitted (Should've had the car back yesterday). get a call today, They're not happy with it cos it's noisy, they think it might be bearing noise - AAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!!!!:bang:

 

[306maxi]

Re: Folks - It Just gets better and better

The Gearbox saga continues. . .new gearbox fitted (Should've had the car back yesterday). get a call today, They're not happy with it cos it's noisy, they think it might be bearing noise - AAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!!!!:bang:

Doh! Perhaps asking for a new car wasn't such a bad idea :bang:

 

[Voluptua]

Some years ago I had a Land Rover Discovery. The most unreliable car I've ever had. The relevance to this thread is that it suffered a gearbox failure under warranty, and so was was fixed at no cost to me.

But they didn't fit the new box too well. At least that's what I blamed the subsequent clutch failure on. Of course, it was out of warranty by then.

 

[Greyskull]

Re: Folks - It Just gets better and better

Perhaps asking for a new car wasn't such a bad idea

Trouble is, it isn't the car thats at fault, its a s***ty gearbox!! Even If I do throw the car back, I'm gonna lose on the deal . . .

 

[jrkitching]

Re: Folks - It Just gets better and better

Even If I do throw the car back, I'm gonna lose on the deal . . .

That, sadly, is most likely true. I'm also thinking it might be worth asking how much you may lose if you keep it. The instantaneous forces generated when the gearbox went bang will have shock loaded every bearing & contact surface in the powertrain, not just in the gearbox. Whether this shock loading will have caused any collateral damage, only time will tell.

 

[306maxi]

Re: Folks - It Just gets better and better

That, sadly, is most likely true. I'm also thinking it might be worth asking how much you may lose if you keep it. The instantaneous forces generated when the gearbox went bang will have shock loaded every bearing & contact surface in the powertrain, not just in the gearbox. Whether this shock loading will have caused any collateral damage, only time will tell.

First time I've ever heard anything like that............

 

[jrkitching]

Re: Folks - It Just gets better and better

First time I've ever heard anything like that............

Think about the inertia in all the rotating components and then think what happens when you suddenly put the brakes on one of them. The force was sufficient to break 2 teeth on the the layshaft & that force will have been transmitted through the wheel bearings, driveshafts etc + it could also have shock loaded the engine.

I was once sufficiently careless to just catch the tip of an aircraft propeller on the ground when taxying. Before I could fly it again, the engine had to be stripped down & every moving part was examined - ball bearings in particular can put microscopic indentations in the races under this kind of loading.

Cost me the best part of £15k and that was in 1985 money. The tech who stripped the engine told me I was lucky not to bend the crankshaft.

I went on to do exactly that, in an incident involving a rotary lawnmower & a tree stump...

 

[306maxi]

Re: Folks - It Just gets better and better

Think about the inertia in all the rotating components and then think what happens when you suddenly put the brakes on one of them. The force was sufficient to break 2 teeth on the the layshaft & that force will have been transmitted through the wheel bearings, driveshafts etc + it could also have shock loaded the engine.

I was once sufficiently careless to just catch the tip of an aircraft propeller on the ground when taxying. Before I could fly it again, the engine had to be stripped down & every moving part was examined - ball bearings in particular can put microscopic indentations in the races under this kind of loading.

Cost me the best part of £15k and that was in 1985 money. The tech who stripped the engine told me I was lucky not to bend the crankshaft.

I went on to do exactly that, in an incident involving a rotary lawnmower & a tree stump...

But we don't know why this component and how it failed.

Aircraft service and repair is fundamentally different to that of a car (I did the first year of a BSc Aviation) and if there's anything greater than the most miniscule risk that something will go wrong then it has to be replaced.

The OP states that he was driving along, heard a bang and a knock/rattle developed obviously as a result of things being out of balance but it's not like the engine or box seized solid which would have obviously shock loaded it.

Personally I think we're just overcomplicating things here

 

[Greyskull]

Re: Folks - It Just gets better and better

. . guess what guys? Still waiting for the car - I'm gonna pop in to visit it in hospital, leave bunch of grapes and a Christmas card for it. . . NOT HAPPY!!!

 

[jrkitching]

Re: Folks - It Just gets better and better

. . guess what guys? Still waiting for the car - I'm gonna pop in to visit it in hospital, leave bunch of grapes and a Christmas card for it. . . NOT HAPPY!!!

I have to say, you are showing much more patience with the supplying dealer than I would have.

I'd have been sorely tempted to shove a pillow over its air intake & put it out of its misery.

 

[Greyskull]

Re: Folks - It Just gets better and better

. . . showing much more patience with the supplying dealer than I would have.

True, not sure if thats my motor trade background or that for the last 26 years I've been in a customer focused job! Fact is, it isn't the dealer's fault - the blame lies fairly and squarely with Fiat. Fiat customer care are doing their best, so can't blame them - next step is to write to Mr Fiat himself.
I honestly can't see the point in jumping up and down like a thing possesed, only puts peoples backs up, raises your blood pressure and then you get nowhere fast, better to be sickly sweet and apply constant increasing pressure - I've threatened the motoring press too, and won't have any qualms about going to them either!!
I've managed to postpone my 1st payment for a month on the basis that "I aint payin' for summat I aint got"!!

UPDATE! Just found out that the replacement gearbox was in fact a reconditioned one and not new . . . Ok now 1, 2, 3, 4 . . . . . . AAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!!!!!!:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

 

[306maxi]

Re: Folks - It Just gets better and better

True, not sure if thats my motor trade background or that for the last 26 years I've been in a customer focused job! Fact is, it isn't the dealer's fault - the blame lies fairly and squarely with Fiat. Fiat customer care are doing their best, so can't blame them - next step is to write to Mr Fiat himself.
I honestly can't see the point in jumping up and down like a thing possesed, only puts peoples backs up, raises your blood pressure and then you get nowhere fast, better to be sickly sweet and apply constant increasing pressure - I've threatened the motoring press too, and won't have any qualms about going to them either!!
I've managed to postpone my 1st payment for a month on the basis that "I aint payin' for summat I aint got"!!

UPDATE! Just found out that the replacement gearbox was in fact a reconditioned one and not new . . . Ok now 1, 2, 3, 4 . . . . . . AAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!!!!!!:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

Keep at it and I'm sure you'll get what you deserve

 

[RobinPJ]

Re: Folks - It Just gets better and better

UPDATE! Just found out that the replacement gearbox was in fact a reconditioned one and not new . . . Ok now 1, 2, 3, 4 . . . . . . AAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!!!!!!:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

Who made that decision? Dealer or Fiat? Really unbelievably bad.

Oh, and would all those who poo-poo'd rejection as an option please help themselves to a large slice of humble pie...

 

[Greyskull]

Re: Folks - It Just gets better and better

Who made that decision? Dealer or Fiat? Really unbelievably bad....

I have no idea - possibly Fiat, even the service dept are saying that it's unacceptable. Anyway, the letter starts . . .

Dear Mr Humberstone

I write to you in sheer desperation regarding the above vehicle purchased from . . . and finishes with Just to recap. . . One new car in my possession for 24 hrs, less than 100 driven miles, 2 gearboxes and still in the workshop.
I ask you Mr Humberstone, would you be happy with that level of service from a motor manufacturer if you were the customer?

There’s plenty in between but way too much for this thread. I was always taught that s**t runs down hill, so watch this space, besides I'm still racking up the miles on their courtesy car!!
The battle continues, tune in, same thread, same forum, same gearbox!!

 

[D4nny8oy]

Re: Folks - It Just gets better and better

Oh, and would all those who poo-poo'd rejection as an option please help themselves to a large slice of humble pie...

Still got around 10 more weeks to wait until we see if rejection was the better option.

 

[306maxi]

Re: Folks - It Just gets better and better

Don't I feel like a dick for saying you should just get it repaired. Best of luck Greyskull, I'm sure patience will win through and you'll get the car you deserve

 

[jrkitching]

Re: Folks - It Just gets better and better

I have no idea - possibly Fiat, even the service dept are saying that it's unacceptable.

They may now be saying that it's unacceptable, yet last week they were prepared to fit a reconditioned gearbox to a new car without telling you:bang::bang::bang: