Technical I'm somewhat disappointed!

[Greyskull]

As someone who's worked in the motor trade I'm sure you're well aware that the same thing could happen again. . .

Absolutely! But it's nice to hear everyones differing opinions, this is after all a forum, and all the advice from both camps is very much appreciated. I'm pretty sure this is a one-off and just an unfortunate occurance - more so when you consider that

1. BSM use these cars for driving tuition and if anyones gonna break something - they will!
2. If it were a common fault, there'd have been a recall action via the DVLA and it would have certainly been on BBC Watchdog or some such consumer prog'. Fiat in their wisdom, or any manufacturer for that matter would have picked it up via the amount of warranty claims.

 

[jrkitching]

I really don't get this at all. When the term "inherently defective" is used it means that the part is inherently faulty as in a good proportion of cars with the same gearbox have issues. There is nothing inherent about the fault, there are thousands upon thousands of cars in the UK with the same gearbox design which don't have any issues.

Maxi, I'm not suggesting that all 500 gearboxes are inherently defective - just that the particular gearbox fitted to the OP's car was inherently defective. The implication is that this particular car was doomed to fail before the OP took possession, and that the failure was not in any way related to the OP's use of the car.

Definition of inherent defect: "A defect that exists in an item regardless of the use made of that item."

 

[306maxi]

Maxi, I'm not suggesting that all 500 gearboxes are inherently defective - just that the particular gearbox fitted to the OP's car was inherently defective. The implication is that this particular car was doomed to fail before the OP took possession, and that the failure was not in any way related to the OP's use of the car.

Definition of inherent defect: "A defect that exists in an item regardless of the use made of that item."

I disagree with that definition quite strongly. If you want to use that definition then inherent is a redundant word because by your definition all warranty faults that develop not as a result of the drivers use are inherent faults.

Greyskull, one thing to say about this forum is that there are a lot of people who are happy to quote from various laws and so on, thinking that they are being really helpful. IMHO telling someone to reject a car and order another one isn't really "helpful" in my books because you ordered a car months ago which you received a few days ago and all you want is a car which is working and whilst having another new car sounds like a great idea but 12 weeks wait is not really the best outcome for the customer.

You've had a new car which you've paid good money for and a rather integral part of it has gone tits up. You deserve to have a working car and IMHO you at least deserve to have some mats or something thrown your way as a show of good will, after all it's not the dealership's fault the car broke but it would soften the blow.

I simply don't see what the new car option achieves but to inconvenience you and cause extra work for the dealership. If you get the car back repaired and then something else goes then perhaps it's time to ask for another car but I don't we've yet seen a "lemon" on the forum yet, there has been one person with a supposedly dead engine but that's 1 person on forum that's had hundreds of 500 owners on it and which would obviously be a magnet for people with big issues with their cars!

 

[T14086]

They'll have to throw a serious amount of goodwill my way for me to keep the car though

I wouldn't be even thinking about goodwill at this stage all i would be wanting is my car back. As for goodwill ... how about a keyring, isn't it enough to have your car back 100%?

 

[jrkitching]

IAs for goodwill ... how about a keyring, isn't it enough to have your car back 100%?

No it isn't.

The OP has, through no fault of their own, been significantly inconvenienced as a result of being sold a defective car. It seems to me to be entirely reasonable that they should expect to be recompensed for that inconvenience.

It is not the dealers fault either - but it is the dealers responsibility to resolve the matter and to maintain a strong positive relationship with the customer.

 

[306maxi]

I wouldn't be even thinking about goodwill at this stage all i would be wanting is my car back. As for goodwill ... how about a keyring, isn't it enough to have your car back 100%?

To be fair he's handed over a fair wodge of cash and the thing has died in no time at all. Whilst I don't think the amount of goodwill should be massive like a free spoiler all painted up, I think it would be a nice sign of goodwill to give the OP a little something.

 

[T14086]

No it isn't.

.

you read my post wrong ... 'I wouldn't be even thinking about goodwill at this stage all i would be wanting is my car back' ... after the car has been returned to the customers approval it would be nice for Fiat to call and make sure everything is ok and then it would be nice to make a goodwill gesture, not what can i get before the car has been diagnosed/repaired.

 

[Greyskull]

... how about a keyring, isn't it enough to have your car back 100%?

Got 2 of them from the Dealer - hated them, LOL

 

[RobinPJ]

you ordered a car months ago which you received a few days ago and all you want is a car which is working and whilst having another new car sounds like a great idea but 12 weeks wait is not really the best outcome

Maxi, with that sort of incisive analysis you should go on Mastermind. In the words of Basil Fawlty, your specialist subject should be The Bleeding Obvious.

The decision what to do is a purely personal and subjective one (rather like choosing the colour). I'm sure the OP is capable of weighing up whether he wants to wait 12 weeks.

What his rights are in this regard is something that he may not know (and he has said in terms that he appreciates the views expressed). It's almost like you don't like people who "quote from various laws and so on, thinking that they are being really helpful" because you cannot bash them with your knowledge on the subject. Maybe on those threads you should just not participate?

Oh, and as a PS, a lot of people think that a car that has undergone a catastrophic failure and been repaired will never be quite as sound as one that has gone down the production line and run smoothly. You may disagree with such people who decide in those circumstances to reject, but you are wrong to say that they are wrong. Their choice is a valid one and who is to say that they are factually incorrect?

 

[RobW]

Maxi, with that sort of incisive analysis you should go on Mastermind. In the words of Basil Fawlty, your specialist subject should be The Bleeding Obvious.

The decision what to do is a purely personal and subjective one (rather like choosing the colour). I'm sure the OP is capable of weighing up whether he wants to wait 12 weeks.

What his rights are in this regard is something that he may not know (and he has said in terms that he appreciates the views expressed). It's almost like you don't like people who "quote from various laws and so on, thinking that they are being really helpful" because you cannot bash them with your knowledge on the subject. Maybe on those threads you should just not participate?

Oh, and as a PS, a lot of people think that a car that has undergone a catastrophic failure and been repaired will never be quite as sound as one that has gone down the production line and run smoothly. You may disagree with such people who decide in those circumstances to reject, but you are wrong to say that they are wrong. Their choice is a valid one and who is to say that they are factually wrong?

failure/a replacement gearbox is not a catastophic failure/never be the same again

it is you that is exaggerating in a Daily Wail stylee

 

[jrkitching]

Oh, and as a PS, a lot of people think that a car that has undergone a catastrophic failure and been repaired will never be quite as sound as one that has gone down the production line and run smoothly. You may disagree with such people who decide in those circumstances to reject, but you are wrong to say that they are wrong. Their choice is a valid one and who is to say that they are factually incorrect?

Couldn't agree more. Even if the repair is carried out following best practice, it's still a repaired car. Confidence in the repair is a personal, intangible thing, and I think it's important that the OP is aware he is perfectly within his rights to reject the car now if he so chooses.

I'm not suggesting that they should, just that they could.
Rejecting the car may not get the best outcome, and only the OP is in a position to decide what particular course of action is most appropriate for them.

 

[RobinPJ]

failure/a replacement gearbox is not a catastophic failure/never be the same again

it is you that is exaggerating in a Daily Wail stylee

Hmmmm - that is an insult too far! [Joke]

I thought from the OP's posting that the noise was "either a diff bearing or mainshaft bearing" meant that the gearbox failure has had a knock on effect and damaged other parts.

If it is just a case of replacing a gearbox with a shiny new one, then I agree with you. But if there is more work to be done to determine what other damage has been done and repair it, then (with all due respect to the Fiat mechanics on here) if you gave me choice between (i) that car repaired in a freezing garage by some spotty youth on whatever YTS is called these days, or (ii) one that has come down the line like every other 500 and has a 99.999% chance of being spot on, I'll take the brand spankers one.

 

[ivantate]

No grounds to reject the car, afterall Fiat will have proof it was teted as perfect 34 miles previously. Fully documented to ISO9000 levels and will plenty of proof that the test covers every possible failure.

A new box will fix it 100%. This is why people buy new cars with warranty, why expect goodwill?
ok, its only done a few miles but that is the nature of the failure. Far better than a niggly electrical fault that cant be found and haunts the car for the rest of its life.

 

[zanes]

I thought from the OP's posting that the noise was "either a diff bearing or mainshaft bearing" meant that the gearbox failure has had a knock on effect and damaged other parts.

Both of these wil be integral parts of the integrated gearbox/diff assembly.

 

[RobinPJ]

Both of these wil be integral parts of the integrated gearbox/diff assembly.

Well that is useful information - thank you. If it were me, that would certainly make me think twice before rejecting - always assuming the dealer can get hold of the assemply in less than 12 weeks!

 

[Greyskull]

Whoa People, hold on!!!! I never meant this to start a forum war. I was only expressing my disapointment and courting other 500 owners and forum member opinions. As I've said, all your views and opinions are valid and are much appreciated - I've been in contact with Fiat's customer care in Italy and the Finance company so all are aware and between them, the salesman and the service dept it'll get sorted one way or another. . .

 

[RobW]

Whoa People, hold on!!!! I never meant this to start a forum war. I was only expressing my disapointment and courting other 500 owners and forum member opinions. As I've said, all your views and opinions are valid and are much appreciated - I've been in contact with Fiat's customer care in Italy and the Finance company so all are aware and between them, the salesman and the service dept it'll get sorted one way or another. . .

any opportunity for a lively debate :devil:

 

[Venters]

Whoa People, hold on!!!! I never meant this to start a forum war. I was only expressing my disapointment and courting other 500 owners and forum member opinions. As I've said, all your views and opinions are valid and are much appreciated - I've been in contact with Fiat's customer care in Italy and the Finance company so all are aware and between them, the salesman and the service dept it'll get sorted one way or another. . .

Lol welcome to here.

 

[RobinPJ]

Is this the right room for an argument?

 

[Greyskull]

Is this the right room for an argument?

. . .I've told you once, LMAO