D4nny8oy
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Interesting point- does this mean you're going to be trading-in your car every year for a new one to avoid getting it serviced?
Technical I'm somewhat disappointed!
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Technical I'm somewhat disappointed!
Interesting point- does this mean you're going to be trading-in your car every year for a new one to avoid getting it serviced?
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No, I just won't bother getting it serviced.
Seriously, I think there's a difference between servicing and repairing some big problem (although I accept that my ignorance made me think that the OP's issue is bigger than it actually is).
RobinPJ, can I ask have you ever changed a gearbox on a 500?
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No, in fact I've never changed a gearbox on anything, which is why I admit to ignorance (and thank the forum for enlightening me).
But you're happy enough to say that you'd rather just have a new car rather than a gearbox swapped over by a pimpley apprentice even though a gearbox swap is more likely to be given to an experienced tech.....
I've changed many gearboxes & rebuilt several. I'm not disputing that, if done properly, the car can be satisfactorily repaired. But the potential for collateral damage is certainly there. I remember one car being returned to me from a main dealer after exactly this job; the inside of the engine compartment was dented in two places & the paintwork was chipped & scratched, both inside the engine compartment & on the nearside wing. There are plenty of gaiters & seals for the hamfisted to stretch, strain & split too.
This incident would, for me, have ruined the "new car" experience & I'd never have the same confidence in it afterwards. OK maybe I am paranoid & the dealer will do a first class job of the repair. For the sake of the OP, I very much hope that they do.
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No, Maxi, please pay attention. I said that if there had been knock on damage to other parts I would take a new car, but added:
(and the "you" there is you, Maxi, saying just get it reapired).
And when Zanes informed me that the parts potentially damaged on the OP's vehicle were integral parts of the integrated gearbox/diff assembly, I said:
Do try and keep up Maxi.
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I'm somewhat disappointed! UPDATE
Friends, I bring news of the glorious battle with Lord Gearbox of Fiat.
The news from the battle from is . . .ta daa! A broken tooth off reverse gear. Looks a proper mess too! At worst I've seen these go through the gearbox casing. . .
Friends, I bring news of the glorious battle with Lord Gearbox of Fiat.
The news from the battle from is . . .ta daa! A broken tooth off reverse gear. Looks a proper mess too! At worst I've seen these go through the gearbox casing. . .
Re: I'm somewhat disappointed! UPDATE
Been there, done that... back in '73 with an ageing Morris 1100. The bits fell into the diff & got wedged in the crownwheel, punching a hole in the case. All the oil disappeared very quickly, which was serious 'cos it also lubricated the engine! Was absolutely skint at the time, so I bought another broken gearbox from the scrappy for £1, & with some help from grandfather, I managed to reconstruct a working box from the best bits of both. Aaah, memories...
Back to topic, how exactly are FIAT proposing to rectify this?
Been there, done that... back in '73 with an ageing Morris 1100. The bits fell into the diff & got wedged in the crownwheel, punching a hole in the case. All the oil disappeared very quickly, which was serious 'cos it also lubricated the engine! Was absolutely skint at the time, so I bought another broken gearbox from the scrappy for £1, & with some help from grandfather, I managed to reconstruct a working box from the best bits of both. Aaah, memories...
Back to topic, how exactly are FIAT proposing to rectify this?
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Greyskull
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Re: I'm somewhat disappointed! UPDATE
Good question :shrug:
Fiat customer services were as good as their word and called me back today and have emailed the warranty dept to push for a new gearbox to be fitted as soon as possible. Having looked at the pics with all the damage, a repair to the box is not going to be an option. All the damage is within the gearbox and diff and theres a fair bit. (Can always post the pics if anyones interested) I find it hard to imagine that Fiat won't authorise the box replacement as to do the kind of damage thats been done I'd need to be a 9' Neanderthal with a huge left bicep and little knowledge of the clutch!! They promised me a call on Monday. . .
Hopefully I’ll get the car back before Christmas . . . That’s Christmas 2011!!!
At least it'll keep the mileage down
Good question :shrug:
Fiat customer services were as good as their word and called me back today and have emailed the warranty dept to push for a new gearbox to be fitted as soon as possible. Having looked at the pics with all the damage, a repair to the box is not going to be an option. All the damage is within the gearbox and diff and theres a fair bit. (Can always post the pics if anyones interested) I find it hard to imagine that Fiat won't authorise the box replacement as to do the kind of damage thats been done I'd need to be a 9' Neanderthal with a huge left bicep and little knowledge of the clutch!! They promised me a call on Monday. . .
Hopefully I’ll get the car back before Christmas . . . That’s Christmas 2011!!!
At least it'll keep the mileage down
Thanks for the picture. Interesting that 2 teeth have sustained damage, and that one is more deeply chipped than the other.
It looks typical of damage caused by slamming the car into reverse when moving forwards. One possible scenario - this happened during delivery when some ham fisted transporter driver was shunting it about, and the 'bang' you noticed was caused by one of the missing bits jamming elsewhere in the mechanism.
It looks typical of damage caused by slamming the car into reverse when moving forwards. One possible scenario - this happened during delivery when some ham fisted transporter driver was shunting it about, and the 'bang' you noticed was caused by one of the missing bits jamming elsewhere in the mechanism.
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Oh I agree. Heard the 'bang' at approx 30 mph on a main road travelling in 4th.
It's either a manufacturing fault (Unlikely as the quality control on these production lines is pretty good) or as you say some bloody great goon that's caused it. The tooth must have had a hairline crack and as it's come adrift at warp speed taken the other ones with it. When you consider the speed of the gear train when the car is in motion and is also a spinning motion, it's no wonder that damage is so great. Must have been like bullets flying around in there. . .and all the wife wanted was a funky new car . . .LOL.
Just out of curiosity, are these 500's assembled in Italy or elsewhere?
It's either a manufacturing fault (Unlikely as the quality control on these production lines is pretty good) or as you say some bloody great goon that's caused it. The tooth must have had a hairline crack and as it's come adrift at warp speed taken the other ones with it. When you consider the speed of the gear train when the car is in motion and is also a spinning motion, it's no wonder that damage is so great. Must have been like bullets flying around in there. . .and all the wife wanted was a funky new car . . .LOL.
Just out of curiosity, are these 500's assembled in Italy or elsewhere?
Poland
Are the gearboxes assembled there or are they assembled by FPT in Italy? Not sure myself.
All said, Polish built Fiat's generally more reliable than their Italian cousins.
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:rumour:. . .apparently the car will be back in my grubby little hands on Wednesday, providing the new gearbox authorised by Fiat arrives in time. . .
It's academic, but here are some points.
Firstly you don't pay the VAT change on a replacement, it would be a zero tansaction as it is to replace faulty items.
As to inherent fault, there are two definitions, one is design the other is component manufacturing. This would be a inherent manufacturing fault at the time the component was made, i.e it was inherently faulty when manufactured or delivered. This can be isolated to a single component out of thousands. All it means is the fault was there at manufacturing not a result of use or wear.
Easy to reject it, it's almost text book, but you would be waiting a long time for replacement unless there is one in Fiat stock. I rejected a new Punto after 3 months and it took a long time for the new one to arrive, but the garage lent us a car for the duration.
As for whoever mentioned ISO9001, this is a quality audit system. It has nothing to do with product component quality. You could write a process which says all gearboxes fail after 34 miles and it will pass ISO if it's in the documentation. Of course this isn't the way it is written, but you could.
Firstly you don't pay the VAT change on a replacement, it would be a zero tansaction as it is to replace faulty items.
As to inherent fault, there are two definitions, one is design the other is component manufacturing. This would be a inherent manufacturing fault at the time the component was made, i.e it was inherently faulty when manufactured or delivered. This can be isolated to a single component out of thousands. All it means is the fault was there at manufacturing not a result of use or wear.
Easy to reject it, it's almost text book, but you would be waiting a long time for replacement unless there is one in Fiat stock. I rejected a new Punto after 3 months and it took a long time for the new one to arrive, but the garage lent us a car for the duration.
As for whoever mentioned ISO9001, this is a quality audit system. It has nothing to do with product component quality. You could write a process which says all gearboxes fail after 34 miles and it will pass ISO if it's in the documentation. Of course this isn't the way it is written, but you could.
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Forgot to say glad your getting it back, maybe some free services would be good as compensation for the hassle
