Hillholder? Is ESP standard on all 500's nowadays?
Technical 500 Euro 6 Problems
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Technical 500 Euro 6 Problems
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My wife's Astra has an electronic hand brake. Don't like it, nothing reassuring to hold onto on a steep hill. To move off on a hill you have to give it a fair bit of throttle whilst bringing the clutch up in order to release it. It'll then go off with quite a jolt. Useless in snow because you end up with s**t loads of wheel spin.
The new Fiat method of driving sounds just as annoying. If something's not broke why fix it.
The new Fiat method of driving sounds just as annoying. If something's not broke why fix it.
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500 / Panda Euro 6 flat spot problems.
I've started a new thread on this as I didn't want it to get lost in another one.
I've just had the most bizarre drive home, and now I think its all becoming clear.
After reading a post today lower down in the forum (euro 6 problems) Where the guy was explaining how to do hill starts It got me thinking and so did more digging.
The clutch pedal has a potentiometer attached, this gauges the where the clutch is as how fast you let it out. It uses this information to add gas to the equation and allow the car to pull off, the faster you drop the clutch the more gas - the faster the car pulls away, its like launch control.
If you drop the clutch in neutral you'll hear the engine rev.
If you disconnect the switch on the Clutch (and ignore the Engine fault light) it drives like a normal car because the launch control disengages.
The dealers are right it's about changing your driving style but they're not explaining it properly. (probably because no ones explained it to them)
All you do is drop the clutch and then add gas. Its brilliant. It must be to stop all the fuel wastage/ emissions that happen when pulling off and in slow moving traffic, the car controls it all for you. It takes a few goes to gauge it perfectly but its quite intuitive once you get the hang. Even rip snorting quick pull offs are not a problem, just fight the urge to slip the power in too early and jinx the system.
Its even better in slow moving traffic and turning in an out of junctions at slow speed as no riding the clutch or slipping the clutch, you can slow right down to a crawl and then when the traffic clears hit the throttle and off you go. It's almost like having an automatic. I only used the clutch to come to dead stop.
I can see why some cars are perceived as being it worse than others, people have been trying to compensate in different ways. Some maybe are giving less throttle and finding an improvement, others more throttle and trying to slip the clutch more, this effectively is fighting the system and making it feel worse.
I'm hoping this is the answer and other people find the same.
Please let me know how it goes
Thanks
Chris.
I've started a new thread on this as I didn't want it to get lost in another one.
I've just had the most bizarre drive home, and now I think its all becoming clear.
After reading a post today lower down in the forum (euro 6 problems) Where the guy was explaining how to do hill starts It got me thinking and so did more digging.
The clutch pedal has a potentiometer attached, this gauges the where the clutch is as how fast you let it out. It uses this information to add gas to the equation and allow the car to pull off, the faster you drop the clutch the more gas - the faster the car pulls away, its like launch control.
If you drop the clutch in neutral you'll hear the engine rev.
If you disconnect the switch on the Clutch (and ignore the Engine fault light) it drives like a normal car because the launch control disengages.
The dealers are right it's about changing your driving style but they're not explaining it properly. (probably because no ones explained it to them)
All you do is drop the clutch and then add gas. Its brilliant. It must be to stop all the fuel wastage/ emissions that happen when pulling off and in slow moving traffic, the car controls it all for you. It takes a few goes to gauge it perfectly but its quite intuitive once you get the hang. Even rip snorting quick pull offs are not a problem, just fight the urge to slip the power in too early and jinx the system.
Its even better in slow moving traffic and turning in an out of junctions at slow speed as no riding the clutch or slipping the clutch, you can slow right down to a crawl and then when the traffic clears hit the throttle and off you go. It's almost like having an automatic. I only used the clutch to come to dead stop.
I can see why some cars are perceived as being it worse than others, people have been trying to compensate in different ways. Some maybe are giving less throttle and finding an improvement, others more throttle and trying to slip the clutch more, this effectively is fighting the system and making it feel worse.
I'm hoping this is the answer and other people find the same.
Please let me know how it goes
Thanks
Chris.
Re: 500 / Panda Euro 6 flat spot problems.
Interesting. Always good to see someone who's actually done something about it. Let us know how it goes and also reconnect the switch and see what it does then
Interesting. Always good to see someone who's actually done something about it. Let us know how it goes and also reconnect the switch and see what it does then
Re: 500 / Panda Euro 6 flat spot problems.
Interestin alright, there is a chance though that this system is misbehaving on some cars and exasasperating the perceived problem. So the missing bolts was a one off red herring then?
Interestin alright, there is a chance though that this system is misbehaving on some cars and exasasperating the perceived problem. So the missing bolts was a one off red herring then?
Re: 500 / Panda Euro 6 flat spot problems.
After reading the post yesterday been out all day in the car and have adapted to the new way of driving.It is OK for normal driving but not very good for fast starts as its only a small engine and I still need to slip the clutch and you can still get a surge in revs.I am not convinced that the car was designed to be driven different but driving in a non standard way appears to be a solution.Not happy with the way FIAT have responded either.
After reading the post yesterday been out all day in the car and have adapted to the new way of driving.It is OK for normal driving but not very good for fast starts as its only a small engine and I still need to slip the clutch and you can still get a surge in revs.I am not convinced that the car was designed to be driven different but driving in a non standard way appears to be a solution.Not happy with the way FIAT have responded either.
Re: 500 / Panda Euro 6 flat spot problems.
Chris, the various threads on this issue are already fragmented enough so I've merged it with what seems to be the main post.
Don't worry about it getting lost - I'm keeping a close eye on this topic & I'm thinking we might have a sticky once we have a definitive answer to what's going on.
Looks that way at the moment.
Chris, the various threads on this issue are already fragmented enough so I've merged it with what seems to be the main post.
Don't worry about it getting lost - I'm keeping a close eye on this topic & I'm thinking we might have a sticky once we have a definitive answer to what's going on.
Looks that way at the moment.
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Re: 500 / Panda Euro 6 flat spot problems.
The system goes back to the way it was. Although you have to start the engine 4 or 5 times to clear the check engine warning.
In theory it should be possible to detach the yellow moulded cam from the clutch pedal arm, leaving the switch plugged in to stop the check engine warning, and drive as a normal car. The ECU should compensate for not getting an input from the sensor. although I've not tried this yet.
At the moment I'm quite intrigued in the "launch control" element I'm going to drive it for a while and see if it actually is just an adjustment in driving technique that's required. I certainly enjoyed the trip home.
But then it also begs the question, if it is a kind of "launch control" why aren't Fiat marketing the Balls out of it? If it was Ford they would, knowing that people like gadgets and would be bragging to all their mates in the pub???? (saying that look at Blue and me... Fiat never marketed it as a selling point, three years later Ford are telling everyone how their cars will read text messages to you, people at work wouldn't believe me when I told them our punto could do that 3 years ago).
Maybe we're being experimented on
Cheers
Chris
Interesting. Always good to see someone who's actually done something about it. Let us know how it goes and also reconnect the switch and see what it does then
The system goes back to the way it was. Although you have to start the engine 4 or 5 times to clear the check engine warning.
In theory it should be possible to detach the yellow moulded cam from the clutch pedal arm, leaving the switch plugged in to stop the check engine warning, and drive as a normal car. The ECU should compensate for not getting an input from the sensor. although I've not tried this yet.
At the moment I'm quite intrigued in the "launch control" element I'm going to drive it for a while and see if it actually is just an adjustment in driving technique that's required. I certainly enjoyed the trip home.
But then it also begs the question, if it is a kind of "launch control" why aren't Fiat marketing the Balls out of it?
If it was Ford they would, knowing that people like gadgets and would be bragging to all their mates in the pub???? (saying that look at Blue and me... Fiat never marketed it as a selling point, three years later Ford are telling everyone how their cars will read text messages to you, people at work wouldn't believe me when I told them our punto could do that 3 years ago).Maybe we're being experimented on
Cheers
Chris
I've been following this thread and thought if Fiat have done this to the 1.2 why wouldn't they do it to their most modern engine, so I tried this method on my 2013 TA and it certainly crawled. It was a very short journey so I can't say it definitively works on the TA engine but I will continue my experiment and report back..
Our 2012 500 TwinAir does it. As you push the clutch down, select first and go to let the clutch back up, the revs rise slightly before you get chance to touch the accelerator. I just thought of it as being a bit of a quirk because the TwinAir's a quirky kinda engine, so drove around it & thought nothing of it. I can sometimes cock it up and get a bit of a jerky pull-away, but now that my 2013 MiTo JTDm has it as well I'm getting used to it.
Didn't fully realise it was the same thing people were going on about on the 1.2, but from recent descriptions, seems it is. Perhaps it's not as effective on the little 1.2 and causes it to 'bog down' if you get the gas/clutch wrong, which would explain why there's been an issue about it on here. However, if it behaves like my Parents 500 TwinAir & my MiTo, I can't really see much of a problem.
Didn't fully realise it was the same thing people were going on about on the 1.2, but from recent descriptions, seems it is. Perhaps it's not as effective on the little 1.2 and causes it to 'bog down' if you get the gas/clutch wrong, which would explain why there's been an issue about it on here. However, if it behaves like my Parents 500 TwinAir & my MiTo, I can't really see much of a problem.
Brighouse500
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So this seems to be an anti stall system which kicks a few revs for you rather than have the driver over rev when achieving bite.
As a long term diesel driver, who occasionally drives the girlfriends 1.2 (61 plate), this would be right up my street as I find diesel cars much easier in crawling traffic. I'm also used to an electronic brake and hill holder so this sounds cool.
Fiat should be explaining this this though at point of sale or at worst when an owner brings the car in with the complaint. Or better still, have a similar options as city button on the dash to activate or deactivate this, as some drivers would prefer the way they have been taught to drive.
I would love to give this a go. My girlfriend would love it too as she is always stalling the blooming thing.
Sent from my iPad using FIAT Forum mobile app
As a long term diesel driver, who occasionally drives the girlfriends 1.2 (61 plate), this would be right up my street as I find diesel cars much easier in crawling traffic. I'm also used to an electronic brake and hill holder so this sounds cool.
Fiat should be explaining this this though at point of sale or at worst when an owner brings the car in with the complaint. Or better still, have a similar options as city button on the dash to activate or deactivate this, as some drivers would prefer the way they have been taught to drive.
I would love to give this a go. My girlfriend would love it too as she is always stalling the blooming thing.
Sent from my iPad using FIAT Forum mobile app
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Hi everyone,
Ok, I'm still digging into the problem as I've still not convinced myself that the drop the clutch and Hit the throttle is the correct answer although does alleviate some of the symptoms.
Here's what I've discovered today.
This goes back about three years when I had my 500 (08 plate) serviced. For months after It ran like a total dog and the dealer couldn't sort it. So I decided I'd give the car a service myself. On pulling the plugs if found the ones the dealer had put in were not the ones specified in the hand book.
Hand book specified DCPR7E-N-10 The dealer had put in ZKR7A-10 The latter having a much longer centre electrode. The difference is quite noticeable.
When questioned the dealer told me the he had put in the correct plugs however on installing the correct ones to the hand book all the problems went away and have never returned.
Now I looked in the hand book (in my case a Panda but I'm assuming its the same for the new 500's - Can someone confirm?) And what have they got listed for spark plugs - ZKR7A-10's
Since my last run it with the plug problem I always Keep a spare set in the garage for BJ should the same thing happen. So its Sunday morning, the sun is shining time for some tinkering. out with the plugs and in with BJ's spare set of DCPR7E-10's - It's the same engine so in my book shouldn't cause any harm.
I had some long runs to do today so I though it would be a good test.
Guess what??????
Starts better - idles smoother, Pulls off perfectly, accelerates better (even up hill) and better fuel economy. even those annoying change gear arrows seem to be on the ball now instead of telling you to change to 5th at 25 its 4th at 25-30 and 5th at 30+ depending on the engine load.
Why have fiat Changed the Spark plugs????? :bang::bang::bang: What's going on??
Food for though - By the way the DCPR7E-10's are going to stay in the car.
Cheers
Chris
Ok, I'm still digging into the problem as I've still not convinced myself that the drop the clutch and Hit the throttle is the correct answer although does alleviate some of the symptoms.
Here's what I've discovered today.
This goes back about three years when I had my 500 (08 plate) serviced. For months after It ran like a total dog and the dealer couldn't sort it. So I decided I'd give the car a service myself. On pulling the plugs if found the ones the dealer had put in were not the ones specified in the hand book.
Hand book specified DCPR7E-N-10 The dealer had put in ZKR7A-10 The latter having a much longer centre electrode. The difference is quite noticeable.
When questioned the dealer told me the he had put in the correct plugs
however on installing the correct ones to the hand book all the problems went away and have never returned.Now I looked in the hand book (in my case a Panda but I'm assuming its the same for the new 500's - Can someone confirm?) And what have they got listed for spark plugs - ZKR7A-10's
Since my last run it with the plug problem I always Keep a spare set in the garage for BJ should the same thing happen. So its Sunday morning, the sun is shining time for some tinkering. out with the plugs and in with BJ's spare set of DCPR7E-10's - It's the same engine so in my book shouldn't cause any harm.
I had some long runs to do today so I though it would be a good test.
Guess what??????
Starts better - idles smoother, Pulls off perfectly, accelerates better (even up hill) and better fuel economy. even those annoying change gear arrows seem to be on the ball now instead of telling you to change to 5th at 25 its 4th at 25-30 and 5th at 30+ depending on the engine load.
Why have fiat Changed the Spark plugs????? :bang::bang::bang: What's going on??
Food for though - By the way the DCPR7E-10's are going to stay in the car.
Cheers
Chris
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https://www.fiatforum.com/500/293274-fiat-500-1-2-pop-spark-plugs-2.html have a read of this
The issue being discussed in this thread has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with spark plugs. Sorry if that sounds a bit abrupt but there have been enough red herrings already without getting started on another one.
Now that I've got that out of the way, back to muttleysdad's question:
All the answers are in the thread Maxi has linked to, which is well worth reading in its entirety, but to summarise:
DCPR7E-N-10 is the OEM plug for the 60HP 1.2 engine fitted to the Mk3 ecoPanda up to late 2010. ZKR7A-10 is the OEM plug for the 69HP 1.2 engine fitted to the last of the Mk3 ecoPandas and all 1.2 500's & Mk4 Pandas. The only difference is that the ZKR7A-10 has the tip extended by 2mm.
Neither plug is particularly durable & IMO you'll do far better to replace with NGK DCPR7EIX which works well in both engine types & should be good for around 50,000 miles.
To keep it tidy, further discussion about plugs in the other thread, please.
Now that I've got that out of the way, back to muttleysdad's question:
All the answers are in the thread Maxi has linked to, which is well worth reading in its entirety, but to summarise:
DCPR7E-N-10 is the OEM plug for the 60HP 1.2 engine fitted to the Mk3 ecoPanda up to late 2010. ZKR7A-10 is the OEM plug for the 69HP 1.2 engine fitted to the last of the Mk3 ecoPandas and all 1.2 500's & Mk4 Pandas. The only difference is that the ZKR7A-10 has the tip extended by 2mm.
Neither plug is particularly durable & IMO you'll do far better to replace with NGK DCPR7EIX which works well in both engine types & should be good for around 50,000 miles.
To keep it tidy, further discussion about plugs in the other thread, please.
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To be fair I wouldn't dismiss the spark plug talk. If it has lessened the issue then it shouldn't be ignored. That said I don't think it'll be the issue.
Muttleysdad is talking about an '08 car! :bang::bang::bang:.
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