General 2012 New Panda - all comments here please :)

[306maxi]

I agree (!), but just this once I'm not really having a go at the 500 and its retro-ness - I'm surmising - hoping I suppose - that that aspect of its appeal makes it more likely that there'll be a Panda Abarth.

I'm hoping that if they do make a Panda Abarth they give it some more visual impact. The problem for me with the 500 Abarth is that in BNW if one comes up behind you, you don't know whether it's a 1.2 or an Abarth. If I pay 3 or 4 k more for a car I want to come up behind someone and have them know that I've got the sportier model.

Take a look at the difference between a boggo Lancia Delta and an Integrale and there's no mistaking one for the other really.

I would hope that a Panda Abarth would have styling that differentiates it from the standard model like the 100hp set itself apart from the cooking models, and then some

 

[babbo_umbro]

I think people are getting confused here. Abarth isn't just a badge and body skirts. It's a brand, a separate company infact.

You can't by an Abarth from Fiat, you buy it from Abarth.

I'm not sure Abarth is that distinct - I know they have their own works but it's somewhat less a separate entity than, say, Lancia or Alfa Romeo - Fiat assembles different models in different factories but they're not separate entities. Since the Fiat takeover, Abarth was totally separate at one time, doing all sorts of interesting developments, like Fiat group competition cars for rallying, sports car racing, and one-make single seaters, then virtually disappeared and was revived fairly recently. There may be outlets that offer Abarth and not Fiat but I've never seen one.

 

[Eklipze3k]

Clarkson put it best (which is rare) when he said that Abarth is to Fiat, what AMG is to Mercedes - they don't make their own models (although that said, the roadster concept that's been floating around for a while looks intriguing) and just give the Fiats a blast from the spice-weasel - BAM!

 

[306maxi]

just give the Fiats a blast from the spice-weasel - BAM!

OWWWWWWW!!!!! My eye!

 

[deeyup]

I've come late to this party. Just checked out the pics

THAT IS AWESOME!!!!

I love it. Well chunky. Can't wait to see the 4x4 version!

 

[pdtrewern]

As I have said before...

I would prefer the 105 n/a 4 cylinder mutliair unit instead of that silly 875cc thing!

 

[306maxi]

As I have said before...

I would prefer the 105 n/a 4 cylinder mutliair unit instead of that silly 875cc thing!

Why? More road tax, worse fuel economy, more weight up front. It's not like the 1.4 is the best engine in the world.....

 

[The Beard]

I thought I was being pretty quick with a post I put up yesterday only to find I was a few months too late. There are more details now including engine choice which include a 1.2 69 CV four cylinder, 65, 85 and 100CV versions of Twin Air, and the MJ in 75CV version.

I'm waiting for a full translation courtesy of my Mum, yeah I know, but it would take me about a month to do it with a dictionary.

It will also be (up to) 10cm longer than the existing model. The pictures on here are very similar to the ones in al Volante magazine that I've got but what struck me was the variations between the different cars shown in that magazine and panoramauto magazine.

I'm presuming that there are still some decisions to be made with regard to appearance, but as all the pics are obviously FIAT issued I'm not sure whether or not they are just differences between models.

These extend to different roof bars, door mirrors, door handles and even different positions and styles of fog lights and indicators.

It is scheduled to be launched at the Frankfurt Motor Show later this year with availablilty from early next year.

Personally I like it, although it has to be said that from the photographs it looks better in some than others.

 

[babbo_umbro]

I'll do a translation if you want. We're off to Umbria next week for a couple of months - taking the 1.2 this time, coming back via Berlin - so I'll look for further updates while we're there.

 

[The Beard]

I'll do a translation if you want. We're off to Umbria next week for a couple of months - taking the 1.2 this time, coming back via Berlin - so I'll look for further updates while we're there.

All being well it should be done by then, but thanks for the offer. All the major magazines have covered it, al Volante, Quattroroute and panoramauto so there should be no shortage of magazines to read.

Also saw a new Freemont, which of course is a re-badged Chrysler but looks none the worse for that. I spoke with the owner who had a small grocery store/delicatessan and he said he's just chopped a current model Ford Galaxy for it. He thought the FIAT was much better.

 

[pdtrewern]

Why? More road tax, worse fuel economy, more weight up front. It's not like the 1.4 is the best engine in the world.....

In real world conditions I do not think the fuel consumption will be any greater. Plus I prefer real grunt from idol, with 100 odd hp from a 875cc unit, it will be all boost. It simply isn't large enough in my opinion. You need a larger unit to start with, its simply physics. A 1.2 turbo would be ok, like in the polo/a1/twingo/clio.

I have a 1248cc Vauxhall astravan (90hp), it great when upto speed, but you try and pull out, its a case of 'would you like some engine with that turbo?!)

I am not saying the 1.4 multiair is state of the art or anything, just more useable.

 

[306maxi]

In real world conditions I do not think the fuel consumption will be any greater. Plus I prefer real grunt from idol, with 100 odd hp from a 875cc unit, it will be all boost. It simply isn't large enough in my opinion. You need a larger unit to start with, its simply physics. A 1.2 turbo would be ok, like in the polo/a1/twingo/clio.

I have a 1248cc Vauxhall astravan (90hp), it great when upto speed, but you try and pull out, its a case of 'would you like some engine with that turbo?!)

I am not saying the 1.4 multiair is state of the art or anything, just more useable.

We're not talking Porsche 911 930 Turbo levels of turbo lag here. Modern turbocharged cars are very responsive. Heck we've got an 18 year old Subaru Legacy turbo which puts out 100bhp/litre and it's more than responsive enough for pulling out let me tell you.......

It's not "simply physics" either, the Polo, Clio and A1 are bigger cars....... the twinair also has better throttle response due to the multiair system! It's not all in the turbo......

 

[pdtrewern]

Im not sure you understand me 306. Your legacy would pull out relatively well without the turbo. (NA 2.0) yes? A 875cc Panda without the turbo (modern) would struggle. This is my point, no matter how good and linear this new lawnmower engine is, it will not pull instantly from 900rpm. After 1500 maybe. I prefer not relying on boost to make progress. To make a car nippy I can understand, but to rely on... na, ill take the cc's any day.

Just to add, the twinair in the 500 is returning some poor figures. (compared to what the claims are.)

 

[Eklipze3k]

I think the phrase you're looking for is "There's no replacement for displacement"

 

[306maxi]

Im not sure you understand me 306. Your legacy would pull out relatively well without the turbo. (NA 2.0) yes? A 875cc Panda without the turbo (modern) would struggle. This is my point, no matter how good and linear this new lawnmower engine is, it will not pull instantly from 900rpm. After 1500 maybe. I prefer not relying on boost to make progress. To make a car nippy I can understand, but to rely on... na, ill take the cc's any day.

Just to add, the twinair in the 500 is returning some poor figures. (compared to what the claims are.)

Actually a properly driven twinair will give good figures.

You don't get it though..... the 1.4 isn't exactly renowned for its low end torque, so why are you expecting a 900cc turbo engined car to be able to pull stumps out the ground and so on?

If you don't like turbocharged engines then fine, but that doesn't mean there's any problem with the twinair, let me just say that the twinair doesn't seem to have any issues.

The 85bhp model gets to 60 in 10.6 compared to 10.2 for the 1.4. Add 20bhp to that........

I understand where you're coming from, but what you're saying is directly contradicted by the facts and what most people feel about the twinair....

 

[pdtrewern]

My first post merely suggested that i would prefer the 1.4

Perhaps as you say I am uneducated I have not driven the twin air and 1.4 back to back, as you may have.

I believe the 1.4 would be mean a cheaper list price too.

What facts by the way?

Incedently, and off topic, 100hp/litre for your turbo is nothing, since the s2000 returns 120hp/litre without forced induction.

 

[306maxi]

My first post merely suggested that i would prefer the 1.4

Perhaps as you say I am uneducated I have not driven the twin air and 1.4 back to back, as you may have.

I believe the 1.4 would be mean a cheaper list price too.

What facts by the way?

Incedently, and off topic, 100hp/litre for your turbo is nothing, since the s2000 returns 120hp/litre without forced induction.

Yes I know that, I was merely saying that because the twinair gives roughly the same bhp figures per litre. It's an 17 year old car with an engine that dates back to 1989 and was the very first use of the EJ20 engine in a Subaru so they gave it a fairly sedate state of tune. People on forums get 500bhp out of them fairly easily.

 

[babbo_umbro]

The answer to this will become apparent when the Twinair with higher boost is available - I have very fond memories of an Uno Turbo ie that had considerably increased boost - took off like a rocket and would spin its (larger/wider) front wheels in third gear - and turbo technology has move don a lot since then. Having said that I'm quite fond of the 1.4 engine in 100HP form.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

The 85bhp model gets to 60 in 10.6 compared to 10.2 for the 1.4. Add 20bhp to that........

But BHP hasn't much of a bearing on acceleration, only the ability to hold a speed.

 

[306maxi]

The answer to this will become apparent when the Twinair with higher boost is available - I have very fond memories of an Uno Turbo ie that had considerably increased boost - took off like a rocket and would spin its (larger/wider) front wheels in third gear - and turbo technology has move don a lot since then. Having said that I'm quite fond of the 1.4 engine in 100HP form.

Yup. if I'm honest our Subaru is too bloody quick to be using the turbo to take off out of sidestreets into small gaps, if you put your foot down you get no wheelspin and you're fast heading for the back of the car in front if you're not careful. I reckon a 105bhp turbocharged engine would be a really sweet spot