Technical 1978 124 Project

[124BC1]

Aye - I will take that heater core out and flush it. The engine radiator is SO suspicious and clogged with junk that I do think I’m going to just buy a new one.

The radiator and heater core are possibly saveable but will need careful back flushing i.e. flushing against the normal flow direction.
As I previously mentioned, I used to use Caustic Soda solution to loosen deposits in rads before flushing, but wear PPE if doing so and do not allow Caustic Soda solution to come into contact with any al. alloy parts as it'll dissolve these, so if doing the heater core, remove the heater valve/tap.
And if doing an engine that's still assembled in the car, remember the water pump and bypass thermostat are aluminum - I wouldn't be too worried about the cylinder head, the C.S. will likely only descale the coolant channels providing you only leave the solution in for 1 - 2 days.

As regards buying a new rad? I'd try to clean out the rad as above, then check for leaks (described in an earlier post) and see if the flow rate using a garden hosepipe looks sufficient, then install in the car - it can always be easily changed at a later date if necessary.

I actually did a stint in a Radiator repair shop in my early years so learned quite a lot about repairing rads and also fuel tanks, so I do know what is feasible... Even at home, I've unsoldered top and bottom rad tanks, rodded-out the tubes and reassembled, never failed to get a satisfactorily outcome.

And please don't be tempted to upgrade to a nice shiny aluminum radiator, imho it's not needed on a stock car, just a waste of money, unless, of course you want to 'pose'...

 

[124BC1]

One thing I would however be concerned about is the likely amount of rusty gritty-looking flakes that may be present in your cylinder block...
These deposits can build up to quite a degree around the bottom of the coolant jackets and can be very difficult to loosen and remove without a full engine strip and chemical cleaning or similar at an engine repair shop. Flushing alone won't remove this build-up. There are some ways of getting most of the detritus out at home with the engine out of the car and cyl. head removed, you can ask later if you need these suggestions.

 

[124BC1]

Should I recreate the dash with 1/2 plywood and try to match the stain or do something else?

You probably already know this, but if you make a dash panel from plywood or even solid wood, it's a good idea to cover the entire panel - front, back and edges i.e. not just the front visible part, with your chosen finish, helps to prevent future warping/delamination issues.

 

[Slotman]

Maybe resist the temptation to buy any parts until you've got the floor and other welding repairs completed?
I'm concerned that either:-

Absolutely! 124bc1 is spot on, as a life long car addict since age 13, I've owned approximately 140 cars, "so far" just as a hobby, the cars I didn't lose money on I could count on one hand, for me the car hobby is a labor of love and I never expect to break even on a project anymore, it's just what keeps me going.

 

[Slotman]

. If you want your car to feel even faster - loosen and rotate the tachometer so that the redline point is at the top, just like race cars..
(or so I've been reliably told by car 'experts' holdin

I can't stop thinking about what you mentioned about the final drive ratio 1 to 1, that driveline turning 6000 rpm right under me haha.

 

[smahaley]

I was about to give you instructions on how to reset the speedo needle - but then I vaguely remembered something, so I checked further and found:-

An image of a speedometer I found for sale online (ignore the fact that it's in kilometres) that shows the speedo needle doesn't return to zero when the car is stationary - this supplier also has 2 others for other model years and they're all the same.

View attachment 461663

W e i r d ! Thanks for sharing

 

[smahaley]

Maybe resist the temptation to buy any parts until you've got the floor and other welding repairs completed?
I'm concerned that either:-

1) You'll start spending money (perhaps unnecessarily, remember what I said about repairing/refurbishing instead of buying new) and run out of money
before completing the resto or end up spending more than the car is worth when finished.

Or-
2) Spend a load of money on parts that you don't need yet, then find that you can't sort the welding work, bodywork and then can't afford to 'walk away' without taking a big hit (you are unlikely to get back what you paid for any new parts).

Fwiw, I've bought and stripped down cars to a bare shell and after poking and prodding to ascertain the full extent of repairs needed, drawing up a list of parts/materials required, reluctantly decided to scrap some of these project cars, before I got myself seriously 'underwater' financially - it was cheaper this way than to doggedly proceed. The cost of so-doing? - well, I comforted myself with the thought that education usually isn't free, and I had (hopefully) just learned something. I'm trying to give you the benefit of some of my 'education' and save you some money.

Very much appreciate your wisdom, @124BC1 ! I’m not buying parts yet. I will be working on the body soon! I just keep getting hung up on small things like heater core extraction and exhaust pipe removals…

 

[smahaley]

I can't stop thinking about what you mentioned about the final drive ratio 1 to 1, that driveline turning 6000 rpm right under me haha.

My dad had a Porsche 914 (1972) and rotated his tach that way.

 

[Slotman]

Ooooh, a 914, one of my dream cars...I've been in to air cooled vws my entire life!

 

[124BC1]

Very much appreciate your wisdom, @124BC1 ! I’m not buying parts yet. I will be working on the body soon! I just keep getting hung up on small things like heater core extraction and exhaust pipe removals…

I'm glad you accepted my advice in the spirit in which it was offered - after posting, I was concerned I might have come on too strongly and possibly caused offence by appearing to 'talk-down' to you.
My hope for you is that you are able to get most of the work done as economically as possible and still have lots of money left for all those final things that are typically needed to finish the car.
Plus, lots of things can be relatively easily changed at a later date if you so decide - it can be quite enjoyable to return to attend to little things that you didn't have time or funds to do first time round - I view these as like giving yourself little treats in your 'shop, or as some refer to it 'quality shop time'

 

[124BC1]

The engine radiator is SO suspicious and clogged with junk that I do think I’m going to just buy a new one.

I forget to mention how I used to clean out the rad -
Lay the rad down on it's front face, fit the rad cap and just fill it through the hose pipe stubs with a Caustic soda solution and leave for a few days. There are various cooling system flushing products but I feel most of them are fairly weak (to avoid causing damage when used in-car) and possibly won't shift the amount of crud that is in your system.
Just be careful using C.S. solution, wear PPE, ensure no kids or pets can possibly have access and be careful disposing of the C.S. solution and rusty crud - it'll destroy driveways, vegetation etc.
I used to back-flush rads using a garden hosepipe but I wonder if a pressure washer (if you have access to one) might be more effective?

 

[124BC1]

Another suggestion re- keeping down costs - try not to buy any tools that might only be used once. I've heard mention on another (U.S.) web forum that some of the large Auto-Supply houses will loan some special tools to customers for a small charge e.g. front coil spring compressors, might be worth checking?

 

[124BC1]

As regards removing the engine, now that you have a mighty-looking engine crane...

As you'll probably be working with the car on jackstands?, If you try to remove the transmission from underneath (it's fairly heavy if working on your own), it might not withdraw rearwards enough to detach from the engine - the trick is to pull it back a bit, then rotate it slightly so that the bulge on the bellhousing (that's there to clear the starter motor) is moved down enough to clear the transmission tunnel.

Easiest option is to disconnect everything from the transmission and support it on a floor/trolley jack (or a trans. jack, if you have one, but not essential), remove the 4 large bellhousing to engine bolts, then lift the engine out with your engine crane. Then the transmission can be simply lowered on the jack and removed from underneath the car.
The engine and transmission can also be removed as one unit but I'd recommend getting hold of a 'load-leveller' attachment to fit on the engine crane, it makes it so much easier.

 

[smahaley]

Another suggestion re- keeping down costs - try not to buy any tools that might only be used once. I've heard mention on another (U.S.) web forum that some of the large Auto-Supply houses will loan some special tools to customers for a small charge e.g. front coil spring compressors, might be worth checking?

Yessir - I frequent something called Autozone here and they have a really good tool loan process. For the occasional joint separation, wheel hub removal, etc.

 

[smahaley]

As regards removing the engine, now that you have a mighty-looking engine crane...

As you'll probably be working with the car on jackstands?, If you try to remove the transmission from underneath (it's fairly heavy if working on your own), it might not withdraw rearwards enough to detach from the engine - the trick is to pull it back a bit, then rotate it slightly so that the bulge on the bellhousing (that's there to clear the starter motor) is moved down enough to clear the transmission tunnel.

Easiest option is to disconnect everything from the transmission and support it on a floor/trolley jack (or a trans. jack, if you have one, but not essential), remove the 4 large bellhousing to engine bolts, then lift the engine out with your engine crane. Then the transmission can be simply lowered on the jack and removed from underneath the car.
The engine and transmission can also be removed as one unit but I'd recommend getting hold of a 'load-leveller' attachment to fit on the engine crane, it makes it so much easier.

Excellent thanks again: I have a load leveler and have been pondering the approach. Primary question du jour is where to attach the leveler on the motor. Mine conveniently has 2 clear mounting points on the front of the motor, but the rear is a mystery. I do have a web strap that I could run around the motor just behind the deep part of the sump....

 

[smahaley]

I'm glad you accepted my advice in the spirit in which it was offered - after posting, I was concerned I might have come on too strongly and possibly caused offence by appearing to 'talk-down' to you.
My hope for you is that you are able to get most of the work done as economically as possible and still have lots of money left for all those final things that are typically needed to finish the car.
Plus, lots of things can be relatively easily changed at a later date if you so decide - it can be quite enjoyable to return to attend to little things that you didn't have time or funds to do first time round - I view these as like giving yourself little treats in your 'shop, or as some refer to it 'quality shop time'

Good sir it would take MUCH more to offend me lol - and let me express again my thanks for your sage advice!

 

[smahaley]

Okay - so I’ve removed nuts from the 2 engine mounts and am attempting to free the trans from the drive shaft with my goal of extracting engine and trans in one go.

I’ve read and looked around but am still unsure of this part of the process - separating the trans from this front yoke / flexible connector. Is it just 3 bolts and the support bracket (which I have already loosened)? Will sliding the motor / trans forward do the trick once the bolts are gone? (NB shifter is off and electricals have been disconnected).

 

[124BC1]

Excellent thanks again: I have a load leveler and have been pondering the approach. Primary question du jour is where to attach the leveler on the motor. Mine conveniently has 2 clear mounting points on the front of the motor, but the rear is a mystery. I do have a web strap that I could run around the motor just behind the deep part of the sump....

If you're removing the engine and transmission as a unit, there should be 2 brackets with large holes fitted to the top 2 large bellhousing bolts (19mm wrench size) (every 124 I've seen had these lifting eyes, but idk about U.S. models). But they are difficult to access until the engine/trans has been lowered a little (the crossmember will limit how much you can lower the engine/trans.).

Alternatively, you could place a sling under the clutch bellhousing (as mentioned in the Haynes 'shop manual ), i.e. right at the rear end of the sump., next to the flywheel. If you position a strap under the sump, I think the more rearwards the better ( behind the deep part of the sump would only be about midway on the engine length).

Some people feed a chain through any suitable spaces in the intake and exhaust manifolds and use this as their rear lifting point. Or attach small brackets/lifting eyes to the most rearward bolts/studs that attach the manifolds. Some people remove 2 cylinder heads bolts and attach lifting brackets this way but I'm not in favor of then doing this to to a rebuilt engine when re-installing it.

Looking at the picture in the Haynes manual showing the angle of the engine being lifted out, you might not even need to use a load-leveller, just lift at the front lifting points, supporting the rear of the transmission on a floor (Trolley) jack which you gradually lower as you lift the engine until you've achieved the necessary angle to remove the engine/transmission up and out.

A couple of other tips :- Before using your engine crane, check that it can actually go high enough to lift the engine/trans at the required angle up over the front (slam) panel of the car (some have had to resort to lowering the car down off the jack stands to finish the removal process). The use of a load-leveller attachment may decrease the height lifting capacity of the engine crane as it's potentially another spacer between engine and crane.
Check that there are no overhead limitations e.g. room beams, installed lights or ceiling, in your shop/shed that might affect how high you can lift.

 

[smahaley]

If you're removing the engine and transmission as a unit, there should be 2 brackets with large holes fitted to the top 2 large bellhousing bolts (19mm wrench size) (every 124 I've seen had these lifting eyes, but idk about U.S. models). But they are difficult to access until the engine/trans has been lowered a little (the crossmember will limit how much you can lower the engine/trans.).

Alternatively, you could place a sling under the clutch bellhousing (as mentioned in the Haynes 'shop manual ), i.e. right at the rear end of the sump., next to the flywheel. If you position a strap under the sump, I think the more rearwards the better ( behind the deep part of the sump would only be about midway on the engine length).

Some people feed a chain through any suitable spaces in the intake and exhaust manifolds and use this as their rear lifting point. Or attach small brackets/lifting eyes to the most rearward bolts/studs that attach the manifolds. Some people remove 2 cylinder heads bolts and attach lifting brackets this way but I'm not in favor of then doing this to to a rebuilt engine when re-installing it.

Looking at the picture in the Haynes manual showing the angle of the engine being lifted out, you might not even need to use a load-leveller, just lift at the front lifting points, supporting the rear of the transmission on a floor (Trolley) jack which you gradually lower as you lift the engine until you've achieved the necessary angle to remove the engine/transmission up and out.

Thanks a bunch - just a follow up: the 3 bolts in the image that connect from the trans to the drive shaft via the flexible donut - are those the only ones I need to remove in order to separate trans from drive shaft? I've seen / read others that go through the whole process of removing all of the drive shaft and would like to avoid that if I can...

 

[124BC1]

Thanks a bunch - just a follow up: the 3 bolts in the image that connect from the trans to the drive shaft via the flexible donut - are those the only ones I need to remove in order to separate trans from drive shaft? I've seen / read others that go through the whole process of removing all of the drive shaft and would like to avoid that if I can...

Short answer is yes, but I wouldn't do it this way!
2 likely problems - the 3 bolts can be difficult to remove because the rubber doughnut coupling is putting them under pressure (especially if has swollen due to oil contamination), often a strong strap wrench, large C clamp or very large adjustable pliers needs to be used to remove the bolts.
Also, there is a small extension on the driveshaft spider (that fits over a guide ring fitted on the end of the transmission output shaft) that extends forward inside the rubber coupling that might not clear the rubber coupling when the 3 bolts have been removed, it can be slid back on it's splines but you might still not have enough clearance.

Whenever I go to remove something, I always try to think also of refitting it, i.e. is this way of removing something that seems easy then going to give me aggravation when I try to refit it? Sometimes it's better to remove a little more if it will make it easier to refit.

So, my approach would be to disconnect the driveshaft (4 bolts/nuts at the rear axle), the safety strap (2 nuts) and the centre driveshaft mounting (2 nuts)(I don't separate the centre mounting from it's mounting bracket). Then before removing the driveshaft from the spider in the centre of the rubber coupling, I'd clean the area and find the alignment marks iirc they're > aligning with < (one mark is on the front of the driveshaft, pointing forwards, just behind the splines, the other is on the spider, pointing rearwards, just before the pressed metal sleeve. It doesn't really matter if you can't find these marks on the car, you'll be able to find them with the driveshaft off the car. Then, pull back the little rubber dust boot and pull the driveshaft from the splined coupling.
The Haynes 'shop manual has see-through diagrams of the front of the driveshaft that may make things a little clearer.
Just to clarify, I leave the rubber coupling bolts alone, I disconnect the driveshaft and pull it out of it's splined coupling that is inside the rubber coupling.

With the driveshaft removed from the car, I can then check the 'U' joints and the centre bearing and it's rubber mounting - this centre bearing rubber mounting is a known failure point on these cars - it's one of the things I wouldn't take any chances with (I explained why in a previous post).

Don't forget to disconnect the speedometer drive cable (it's easier when you've removed the trans. rear mounting crossmember), the clutch cable and the engine ground cable if it's attached to the bottom of the trans. bellhousing.

P.s. you might re-read my post #58 above, you acknowledged it while I was editing it to add some further info.