Which is safer?

[AnthonyH]

Imagine crashing on the motorway in these circumstances.

1) Driving a 2020 car driven at 70mph.

2) Driving a 2010 car at 60mph.

3) Driving a 2000 car at 50mph.

Assuming the circumstances of the crash are identical, apart from the speed, and later car have the latest safety features, which is safest? And why?

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Imagine crashing on the motorway in these circumstances.

1) Driving a 2020 car driven at 70mph.

2) Driving a 2010 car at 60mph.

3) Driving a 2000 car at 50mph.

Assuming the circumstances of the crash are identical, apart from the speed, and later car have the latest safety features, which is safest? And why?

2020 car, is going to be built to sustain much more high energy impacts than the older cars. 2010 would still be a fairly safe car by many standards however if you consider the difference between 60 - 70mph that is still a pretty high energy crash, and I think the car would still be the deciding factor rather than just the speed.

I remember cars in the 2000 going through NCAP which was only introduced in the 90s, so cars passing NCAP back then, wouldn't stand a hope in hells chance these days.

One big consideration is the mechanism of the accident, what they hit, where they hit it position of the car (ie side on, front on etc) and this will have a far bigger bearing on the survivability of the accident than just the age or speed alone.

another thing to consider is the car. ie a 2010 S-class merc is probably always going to be safe than a 2020 budget economy car.

Back in the early 2000s the company I worked for at the time, in the motor trade sold a Saxo to a youngster who wrapped it wound the front of a Mercedes on his way home. The Mercedes driver was totally unharmed, I think it was a 2 or 3 year old Saxo at the time so not an "old" car, he and his passenger were killed instantly and we panicked when he heard there had been a death and pulled all the maintenance records on the car- turns out he was just driving like a bell end, overtaking on a single track road with oncoming traffic and not enough power to complete the maneuver in time

 

[AnthonyH]

Interesting reply. This has prompted me to dig around again and try an AI answer. It said something to the effect that a 2020 car is 30-60% safer than a 2010 car. What it didn't do was compare speeds as per my question.

It appeared to split the safety % improvement up into components, so there was an improvement in structural integrity, crumple zones and airbags.

But also things like cruise control, blind-spot monitoring, automatic high beams, a rearview camera, and lane departure warnings. I should research these because its not really apparent how they'd improve safety that much. A little for sure.

 

[Greasytrucker]

Did all 3 accidents involve your dodgy brake calipers by any chance?

 

[AnthonyH]

Did all 3 accidents involve your dodgy brake calipers by any chance?

LOL. I'm very meticulous!

Besides i've only just ordered the caliper so its not on yet lol.

 

[Greasytrucker]

But also things like cruise control, blind-spot monitoring, automatic high beams, a rearview camera, and lane departure warnings. I should research these because its not really apparent how they'd improve safety that much. A little for sure.

But none of these things are gonna make a blind bit of difference to safety once the accident has happened are they?

 

[AnthonyH]

But none of these things are gonna make a blind bit of difference to safety once the accident has happened are they?

True. I've never had an accident, so i don't really need any of them.

This begs the question, is there a way of making an older Fiat car safer in an actual crash by adding extra equipment?

It is also begs the question, if everything else on my cars need maintenance how do i know that the airbags are going to work if i needed them to?

 

[Greasytrucker]

It is also begs the question, if everything else on my cars need maintenance how do i know that the airbags are going to work if i needed them to?

If you’re gonna think about things like that then I’m surprised you even get off your drive, let alone go anywhere near a motorway! One thing I’ve learnt is the only driving you can control is your own. And if i did worry about things like that, i certainly wouldn’t be buying ageing Puntos, as i’m sure there’s far stronger cars to be in if the worst does happen

 

[AnthonyH]

If you’re gonna think about things like that then I’m surprised you even get off your drive, let alone go anywhere near a motorway!

Lol. I'm not worried really, just engaging in chit chat. I presume if the airbag was faulty I'd get a warning light. Well maybe, unless that's faulty lol.

One thing I’ve learnt is the only driving you can control is your own. And if i did worry about things like that, i certainly wouldn’t be buying ageing Puntos, as i’m sure there’s far stronger cars to be in if the worst does happen

I should get some more metal around myself. Wish I could get a tank, or lorry even. It might make parking at the coop difficult

 

[Greasytrucker]

Think we need to change Leisure Lounge to “AnthonyH random thoughts” section. You certainly go down some strange avenues

 

[Bonefish Blues]

The 50mph crash please.

Because physics, notwithstanding the increased crash protection.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

True. I've never had an accident, so i don't really need any of them.

This begs the question, is there a way of making an older Fiat car safer in an actual crash by adding extra equipment?

Have a slower speed accident is the best way.

 

[AnthonyH]

The 50mph crash please.

Because physics, notwithstanding the increased crash protection.

I should drive slower. I used to average about 60mph on the motorway, but it's edged up in recent months.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

It said something to the effect that a 2020 car is 30-60% safer than a 2010 car.

That's a pretty big difference.

It appeared to split the safety % improvement up into components, so there was an improvement in structural integrity, crumple zones and airbags.

A lot of newer cars use boron-Steel alloys which are much harder than just steel alone. The weight of cars has also gone up to reflect the increasing need for more metal to keep getting those 5 star NCAP results. Finally the cars themselves have gotten bigger, I think I saw something the other day about the new Mini Countryman being bigger than the original Range Rover (Classic) which having owned one I don't find all that hard to believe.

Bigger cars bigger crumple zones.

People walk away from 70mph crashes that in the past would have resulted in multiple fatalities.

But also things like cruise control,

Not going to stop an accident.

blind-spot monitoring,

Might stop you doing something silly like changing lanes without looking but is still reliant on the driver understanding the warning.

automatic high beams,

I have these on my Golf.... Definitely not going to stop an accident but occasionally might blind an oncoming driver.

a rearview camera,

If you are looking out the back then you're not focused on whats in front. Again unlikely to prevent any of the 50 - 60 - 70mph accidents discussed above. Might prevent a prang in a car park but honestly if you can look at a camera screen you can look at a mirror, you could also look over your shoulder, or just fit all round parking sensors.

and lane departure warnings.

Same as blind spot monitoring only useful if the driver understands the warning, also people get irritated by them, turn them off and then they are no use.

I should research these because its not really apparent how they'd improve safety that much. A little for sure.

 

[StevenRB45]

But none of these things are gonna make a blind bit of difference to safety once the accident has happened are they?

Of the various bongs the only one that might make a blind bit of difference is AEB. If the car detects you're about to hit something. In theory if you travel at the speed limit the 70mph accident becomes largely impossible due to collision mitigation braking.

Got to test mine the other week due to an unannounced large animal in a national limit. Interesting experience in that it removed all weight from the brake pedal in preparation for an emergency incident so your normal pedal pressure gets you ALL the brake force. Quite impressive in going from a 60mph cruise down to 30mph very quickly indeed. Thankfully the animal continued walking so had cleared to the left by the time I'd arrived..as there was something coming the other way.

Re. The original question there's too many variables..eg the year 2000 car is likely rotten as a pear .


My Particular soapbox is if you want a safe car...putting yourself in a high riding vehicle that is much more likely to roll is stupid as rollover accidents are in general far more dangerous than ones where the car remains wheels down.

 

[SB1500]

Most of the things in the modern cars are safer by virtue of prevention only, but as mentioned, only if the drivers heed the warnings ... and it doesn't take much of a pull of the steering wheel to still force your way into another lane in some of the latest cars despite it knowing better.

Interesting question though. No idea how to properly answer it but I suppose I'd lean towards new being better in ways I can't understand due to the high engineering and technology advancements that quietly slip their way in year over year.

Questions like this give me flashbacks to the state of that Ford Focus that Fifth Gear crashed years ago into concrete.... there should be photos of that handed out at speeding hearings I reckon, at least above a certain figure.

NCAP is all good and well, until you realise how slowly they crash them at.... 31mph?! I thought it was 40 and that was bad, but checking my facts before posting and wow... 30 feels like nothing. Imagine the same cars at 70mph. Bleak.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Most of the things in the modern cars are safer by virtue of prevention only, but as mentioned, only if the drivers heed the warnings ... and it doesn't take much of a pull of the steering wheel to still force your way into another lane in some of the latest cars despite it knowing better.

Interesting question though. No idea how to properly answer it but I suppose I'd lean towards new being better in ways I can't understand due to the high engineering and technology advancements that quietly slip their way in year over year.

Questions like this give me flashbacks to the state of that Ford Focus that Fifth Gear crashed years ago into concrete.... there should be photos of that handed out at speeding hearings I reckon, at least above a certain figure.

NCAP is all good and well, until you realise how slowly they crash them at.... 31mph?! I thought it was 40 and that was bad, but checking my facts before posting and wow... 30 feels like nothing. Imagine the same cars at 70mph. Bleak.

Which is why I'd have the slowest speed crash, please - I asked AI to do me the calcs last night for a baseline of 50 mph and the increases in energy at 60 & 70 - speed increase may be linear, but how much it's gonna hurt certainly isn't!

For sure modern cars are 'safer and stronger', but NCAP these days is increasingly focusing on crash avoidance technology and marking down intrinsically strong vehicles because they don't have the latest warning bings and bongs etc.

 

[SB1500]

For sure modern cars are 'safer and stronger', but NCAP these days is increasingly focusing on crash avoidance technology and marking down intrinsically strong vehicles because they don't have the latest warning bings and bongs etc.

Yeah this worries me a bit. With car manufacturers being how they are - either forced to or motivated to do whatever it takes (game, cheat etc) the system to mark highly and or comply... they will inevitably focus more on the gadgets and whatnot.

I don't see why they can't have a totally separate test section only for the technical side which I understand is good to have and important (as annoying as they are) and still separately be able to conclude that 'this car does/does not have the latest body strength practices in manufacturing, but does/does not have the latest technology or prevention features'.

I started off not really seeing the point of the complexity and cost behind the tech. After experiencing it on a few cars I've had time in it was rather annoying and complicated things like a windscreen replacement / insurance and all that. But then as everyday, even this morning, I pass a queue in the other direction and half of them are looking down on their phones I do think it's probably wise these things eventually become standard. No idea why the police haven't realised the money making potential of looking for and stamping down on this already!

Myself I remember being on a fairly big fast roundabout and being utterly disgusted as sometimes we are at the slow, seemingly unaware driver in front of me as they 'pathetically' cut across lanes slowly, with no regard for their safety or others flying around at all speeds - but finally moved out of my path. I turned my head in amazement / frustration that drivers like this truly exist and somehow persist on the roads around me....only then the Avensis' flashed up a red warning / beep and hit the brakes for me before I could think as I'd nearly sped up right into the back of a lorry that pulled out ahead whilst my head was turned. Absolutely ironically I was as bad a driver as the one I was annoyed by there. But it does show you how a lapse in focus even for a second can result in these things 'saving' you.

Sad thing is most people my age and below think it's their right to text and drive. Most are more addicted to social media than me, I'm in the rare camp that has never installed 'TikTok' and never will. When I bought the CT, I asked my relatives/friends who've had some fairly nice auto cars for years what they thought about it and all of them independently said 'it's so much easier to text with'. Not just young people, older people too but younger people don't seem to be aware of why it's wrong or risky.

 

[AnthonyH]

That's a pretty big difference.

A lot of newer cars use boron-Steel alloys which are much harder than just steel alone. The weight of cars has also gone up to reflect the increasing need for more metal to keep getting those 5 star NCAP results. Finally the cars themselves have gotten bigger, I think I saw something the other day about the new Mini Countryman being bigger than the original Range Rover (Classic) which having owned one I don't find all that hard to believe.

The Boron steel is a good idea, and long overdue. I've never driven a Range Rover, classic or otherwise, was it any good?

Same as blind spot monitoring only useful if the driver understands the warning, also people get irritated by them, turn them off and then they are no use.

Blind spot monitoring is the only important one of these things i'd say. I still turn my head to check the blind spot each time I change lanes on a motorway/dual carriageway. It has saved me from a crash on two occasions, in 30 plus years. I really couldn't see those two cars had somehow got where they did and they were basically invisible.

 

[AnthonyH]

My Particular soapbox is if you want a safe car...putting yourself in a high riding vehicle that is much more likely to roll is stupid as rollover accidents are in general far more dangerous than ones where the car remains wheels down.

I'd not thought of it like that, just how tall do they need to be to be a hazard?