General Top Gear and more.

[loveshandbags]

Interesting points but nobody has touched on depreciation, the Abarth 500 seems to be holding up pretty well, will the others fare as well, then theres kerb appeal, no way of gauging that but the number of positive comments we still get about my Wifes Abarth amases me, do the others get those, especially from people who arent particularly into cars

On a flashy black 1.4 Sport with the Italian flag running across the bonnet and roof with 5o spokes and red calipers - it got quite a bit of the 'right' attention - some mistook it for an Abarth - I very rarely ever see a A500 in Dublin. But now with the pearly white 500 Lounge with no stripes - it gets relatively little attention.

I take it that your OHs is a BNW with the Abarth stripes along the side ?

And you are correct about the A500 holding their value compared with others. For the performance it gives it has lowish emissions.

P.S. I spent several months in Winchester working for a software company in the early 80's. I had the hottest Indian curry ever in a pub on a 'corporate' lunch-hour.

 

[Stuart J]

On a flashy black 1.4 Sport with the Italian flag running across the bonnet and roof with 5o spokes and red calipers - it got quite a bit of the 'right' attention - some mistook it for an Abarth - I very rarely ever see a A500 in Dublin. But now with the pearly white 500 Lounge with no stripes - it gets relatively little attention.

I take it that your OHs is a BNW with the Abarth stripes along the side ?

And you are correct about the A500 holding their value compared with others. For the performance it gives it has lowish emissions.

P.S. I spent several months in Winchester working for a software company in the early 80's. I had the hottest Indian curry ever in a pub on a 'corporate' lunch-hour.

"my wifes" Abarth is the launch model as attached

Winchester in the 80's, I was living close to Winch & working in Winchester, still do so we may have unwittingly passed in the street

 

[jimbro1000]

I've been through any number of cars, some have been real junk while some have been exceptional but none of them have attracted the attention of passers by as the Abarth does.

I took it to a tyre-kicking car meet a few months after getting it and everyone flocked around it - despite the presence of some much more expensive and exotic cars, even the owners of those cars came for a look and without exception every single one of them stated a real appreciation for the car and especially the interior (red leather).

On the down side I've had police follow the car just to get a closer look (most disconcerting) and I'm amazed none of them have ever stopped me (I don't mean for my driving either).

At Oulton Park driving an identical car for the annual marshals track day (an invitation event where racers get a chance to give marshals passenger rides around the track by way of thanks) I had a queue that lasted all day. The fact that it was very nearly the fastest thing out there (with 2 up instead of just 1) says something about it too!

As for depreciation - they are never going to hold on like some brands do but for a Fiat (sorry but that's what most see it as) it does exceptionally well. Most simply halve in value in the first year (or as soon as they go out the door of the dealer) and then plummet but not the A500, the depreciation is actually measurable and at the current rate is only likely to halve after 3 years (roughly).

I just find it really sad that Fiat seem to have lost interest in continuing development of the Abarth brand as it seems to be stagnating after just 3 years. The danger is what is going to happen if Fiat just abandon the brand again - it could go two ways, the cars will either gather more value or they will collapse in price. Part of the reason the value is so well maintained is the specialist dealers and a perceived better level of support and maintenance compared with the average UK Fiat dealer who really couldn't care less.

 

[Stuart J]

On the down side I've had police follow the car just to get a closer look (most disconcerting) and I'm amazed none of them have ever stopped me (I don't mean for my driving either).

Wendy returned to a car park in Wincheter to see a patrol car stopped in the road with 2 police standing round her car, she feared the worst but they had just stopped for a look & spent a while chatting. On another night we took it on a tunnel run in London & a Police van came up along side her at the lights & would down the window, expecting a telling off for a bit of "enthusiastic driving" just before the lights there was a quick hint along those lines followed by a tounge in cheek request to swap vehicles for the night

 

[loveshandbags]

Wendy returned to a car park in Wincheter to see a patrol car stopped in the road with 2 police standing round her car, she feared the worst but they had just stopped for a look & spent a while chatting. On another night we took it on a tunnel run in London & a Police van came up along side her at the lights & would down the window, expecting a telling off for a bit of "enthusiastic driving" just before the lights there was a quick hint along those lines followed by a tounge in cheek request to swap vehicles for the night

I just had the assessor out for a little tip that I got on my car a few weeks back. Had it out on the back laneway. Now its only a 1.4 Pearlescent White Lounge with 16s. He asked me did it have a turbo and wanted to check under the bonnet. Thankfully there was no cold air induction kit lurking under there - anyway I kept my composure and said that it was a standard 500 but it has a 1.4 engine and it's not an Abarth. With the trouble that I have with the Gardai the only car that I could drive is one that has the Stealth look.

P.S. Jimbro - Just noticed that your X19 has had its engine & gearbox taken - sorry to hear about that.

 

[Butcher]

Top Gear - Abarth 500c

Ok so recently the Fiat 500 Abarth featured on 'Top Gear' , as the task was to buy the best hot hatch in the world today, Richard Hammond chose this.

what are your guys veiws on this car?

is it your fav abarth? looks pritty sweet


Cost price 17,500 New

 

[dombooth]

re: Top Gear - Abarth 500c

Great car but I think I've seen this in another thread on here.

Dom

 

[Vance]

re: Top Gear - Abarth 500c

AGP is the best abarth, in white or red.

 

[dombooth]

re: Top Gear - Abarth 500c

I'd prefer the Abarth Punto Evo any day though.

Dom

 

[Freebo]

re: Top Gear - Abarth 500c

True, why didnt he choose the APE?

 

[jimbro1000]

I just had the assessor out for a little tip that I got on my car a few weeks back. Had it out on the back laneway. Now its only a 1.4 Pearlescent White Lounge with 16s. He asked me did it have a turbo and wanted to check under the bonnet. Thankfully there was no cold air induction kit lurking under there - anyway I kept my composure and said that it was a standard 500 but it has a 1.4 engine and it's not an Abarth. With the trouble that I have with the Gardai the only car that I could drive is one that has the Stealth look.

P.S. Jimbro - Just noticed that your X19 has had its engine & gearbox taken - sorry to hear about that.

My manager comes from NI, he has regaled us with plenty of driving tales from his youth that tell pretty much all we need to know about the situation (at least as it was).

We were over in the south to visit customers at the end of last year (just as the snow hit) and I got lumbered with the driving - we did a grand tour from Shannon to Tralee to Waterford before heading back to Shannon as it was the only airport open. The roads were great fun at not a hint of trouble...

The X1/9 engine is going to be very hard to replace, a good £30k and another £7k for the box and the police have told me it is a civil matter due to how they were taken so they aren't going to pursue it. None of that reflects all the other little bits that have gone walkabout in the process - it is somewhat heartbreaking and it is going to take some time to get it all in order.

 

[jip0]

re: Top Gear - Abarth 500c

defo R
Edit: This is in reply to Freebo's post #50 which is out of context now that threads have been merged.

 

[loveshandbags]

My manager comes from NI, he has regaled us with plenty of driving tales from his youth that tell pretty much all we need to know about the situation (at least as it was).

We were over in the south to visit customers at the end of last year (just as the snow hit) and I got lumbered with the driving - we did a grand tour from Shannon to Tralee to Waterford before heading back to Shannon as it was the only airport open. The roads were great fun at not a hint of trouble...

The X1/9 engine is going to be very hard to replace, a good £30k and another £7k for the box and the police have told me it is a civil matter due to how they were taken so they aren't going to pursue it. None of that reflects all the other little bits that have gone walkabout in the process - it is somewhat heartbreaking and it is going to take some time to get it all in order.

Delighted you enjoyed the roads over here. I heard that there was pandemonium when the 'Cannonball' guys were out. Helicopters, lectures in the evening in the hotels for the local commissioner. I wasn't there and I'm not too sure if they would be 'welcomed' again. I'd imagine if you had the boss in the car you were exercising a bit of caution.

That engine (& gearbox) - sounds like a very specialist one - so it will turn up. If it was me I wouldn't let it go. Civil matter (will cost you more money ) is a cope out from the Police. It's a criminal matter if someone steals. A reward offered can work wonders. I had a handbuilt racing bike stolen in my youth outside an a training academy in Coolock (rough part of the city). The guys who took it left it outside the Garda station in Kevin street in Dublin after I made a few 'house calls'.

 

[dombooth]

True, why didnt he choose the APE?

Not sure tbh.

Dom

 

[dave]

like saying Fiat 599 instead of ferrari! (obv a bit OTT comparison!)

not really because ferrari dont come out of the same factory and have fiat written all over it like the 500 does

 

[jimbro1000]

Delighted you enjoyed the roads over here. I heard that there was pandemonium when the 'Cannonball' guys were out. Helicopters, lectures in the evening in the hotels for the local commissioner. I wasn't there and I'm not too sure if they would be 'welcomed' again. I'd imagine if you had the boss in the car you were exercising a bit of caution.

That engine (& gearbox) - sounds like a very specialist one - so it will turn up. If it was me I wouldn't let it go. Civil matter (will cost you more money ) is a cope out from the Police. It's a criminal matter if someone steals. A reward offered can work wonders. I had a handbuilt racing bike stolen in my youth outside an a training academy in Coolock (rough part of the city). The guys who took it left it outside the Garda station in Kevin street in Dublin after I made a few 'house calls'.

I wasn't going mad - but equally I wasn't hanging around either. Had to be fairly cautious as the roads were icy in patches despite a lack of snow anywhere we went (except for Waterford).

The problem with the engine and box is they were in a workshop that went out of business. The parts were taken by people owed money by the company - the police even stood and watched apparently, refusing to get involved. Frankly I'm not so worried about the engine or the gearbox, they can be replaced but the cylinder head is one of just three of its kind and cannot be easily recreated...the man behind the work died not long after it was finished and he was an absolute genius at what he did (used to work at Ferrari F1 designing and building their cylinder heads). Everything else is just "parts".

I do have an engine but not to the same standard, I also have a gearbox so it isn't like I can't get the car running. The problem is getting the engine fitted (it is currently prepared for a Punto GT) as a fair number of part swaps are needed just to get it in the engine bay and then it needs a lot of plumbing and wiring. Right now I'm just worried about getting the chassis cleaned, painted and stabilised as it got left out in the weather with obvious side-effects.

 

[loveshandbags]

I wasn't going mad - but equally I wasn't hanging around either. Had to be fairly cautious as the roads were icy in patches despite a lack of snow anywhere we went (except for Waterford).

The problem with the engine and box is they were in a workshop that went out of business. The parts were taken by people owed money by the company - the police even stood and watched apparently, refusing to get involved. Frankly I'm not so worried about the engine or the gearbox, they can be replaced but the cylinder head is one of just three of its kind and cannot be easily recreated...the man behind the work died not long after it was finished and he was an absolute genius at what he did (used to work at Ferrari F1 designing and building their cylinder heads). Everything else is just "parts".

I do have an engine but not to the same standard, I also have a gearbox so it isn't like I can't get the car running. The problem is getting the engine fitted (it is currently prepared for a Punto GT) as a fair number of part swaps are needed just to get it in the engine bay and then it needs a lot of plumbing and wiring. Right now I'm just worried about getting the chassis cleaned, painted and stabilised as it got left out in the weather with obvious side-effects.

You seem to have resigned yourself to the fact that the cylinder head is 'gone'. But if there was a judgement on the business (now - I'm no legal eagle) this would allow a sheriff to go in to a business on foot of a court order to recover any monies owing to them. They would be entitled to take anything that was of material worth that could be 'auctioned' to recover the debt. Now if this particular head was belonging to a customer and you could prove it was yours and did not belong to the business and in my layman's mind you should be able to get this back. Other option is to have some check out where these 'recovered' goods are disposed off and if its auctioned have someone bid on it.
When I looked at modifying my 500 1.4 LAD Motorsport had quoted me on a Port & Polish of the head (around £950 for the whole lot) and I understood from the bit of research work (the States are into this) that it is very hard to get someone who is good at this. It's the 'old fashioned' way of getting power out of the engine. A head like the one that was 'taken' would give you the 'edge' in competition.

P.S. The police standing by - their presence would have been asked for by the person who was entering the premises. So in effect they are there for the protection of those who are taking the goods.

 

[jimbro1000]

The difficulty is that I don't know who took the engine or when exactly. The owner of the business was absent (out of the country) and the lunatics were running the asylum. The police were called in because people started turning up and just taking stuff (like all of the tools - literally tens of thousands of pounds worth). Anything that wasn't bolted down started to disappear. The owner of the business is livid because he was trying to wind things down properly and get everyone's jobs finished and now has nothing to work with and nothing to work on.

I've been keeping an eye on auctions and ebay to see if the engine turns up as I can then do something about it but without some leads it is bordering on impossible.

In terms of getting the power out of a turbo engine it is definitely the way to go. If you don't improve the airflow capabilities of the head then the turbo has to work that much harder which means more heat and less power. Up the air flow and you get more power anyway, if you can control the boost accurately enough you can also run a higher compression ratio which means even more power - all before you start upping the turbo size and pressure. We were seeing 350bhp out of a 1.4 engine at 1.3bar, at 2bar it was showing nearer 450bhp. The stock engine was 130bhp at 0.8bar boost. Remember this is the old sohc engine too so none of the refinements of the newer engines or even a 16v head. We could have gone further but the cost was prohibitive and I had only asked for 250bhp and paid accordingly.

 

[loveshandbags]

The difficulty is that I don't know who took the engine or when exactly. The owner of the business was absent (out of the country) and the lunatics were running the asylum. The police were called in because people started turning up and just taking stuff (like all of the tools - literally tens of thousands of pounds worth). Anything that wasn't bolted down started to disappear. The owner of the business is livid because he was trying to wind things down properly and get everyone's jobs finished and now has nothing to work with and nothing to work on.

I've been keeping an eye on auctions and ebay to see if the engine turns up as I can then do something about it but without some leads it is bordering on impossible.

In terms of getting the power out of a turbo engine it is definitely the way to go. If you don't improve the airflow capabilities of the head then the turbo has to work that much harder which means more heat and less power. Up the air flow and you get more power anyway, if you can control the boost accurately enough you can also run a higher compression ratio which means even more power - all before you start upping the turbo size and pressure. We were seeing 350bhp out of a 1.4 engine at 1.3bar, at 2bar it was showing nearer 450bhp. The stock engine was 130bhp at 0.8bar boost. Remember this is the old sohc engine too so none of the refinements of the newer engines or even a 16v head. We could have gone further but the cost was prohibitive and I had only asked for 250bhp and paid accordingly.

I can see now what you've put the 'looking' on the back burner. Hopefully you'll come across it.

They are amazing bhp figures from the turbo. On the last turbo car I had - it was a RS Turbo with a CVH engine (pretty crap engine - the turbo smoothed out the harshness after 4000 rpm) it ran 7-8lbs of pressure standard then it was increased to 11 then 15-16. The 'sweet spot' was 14lbs and because I exceeded it - it shortened the life of the engine. (14.5lbs=1bar). I had not realised that 'porting' the head was as important on a turbo charged engine. When I first drove a A500 it was boosting beyond 1bar from the offset which surprised me. The future is in Turbo charged cars allowing one to run a smaller CC engine and of course helps the grs/km to keep it PC. I can see why the Renault Clio in Topgear is goosed.

 

[J333EVO]

Firstly sorry to here of the theft, not good.

Depeciation is not always as clear cut as at first seems. If you buy a car outright which many folk don't & in fact its a dead certain you will not get discount if you do, but the 500 demograph is I think much older than most other hot hatches & many therefore may have paid in full.

Therefore some of the prices advertised for 2 year old cars privately I've seen are higher than dealers, doesn't take much to work out they will not sell. EVO mag had a small bit two months ago on buying them 2nd hand with input from Rockingham cars who had one for sale at 20months old already having had two owners with 12k on the clock with 4k off new price including the extras. Think it was 12.5k from the 16.5k paid new. It was stated by Rockingham that this is actually fairly representative of the 500A having multiply owners in short time frame, which they must love as getting nice mark up on every sale!

Then you have the poor PCP deals popular these days as it gives a set final value figure and you pay x amount per month. Abarths was something like a 6k a year mileage cap to get this value a deposit of about £2k & £239 a month @ 5.9% interest. Compare this to getting a Clio cup for £999 deposit & £199 a month on 1.9% interest. So anything gained by any slightly higher residual is lost and then some by higher interest rate. We did consider it very briefly when looking to replace our FTO GPversionR, but bought a 2nd Civic Type-R.

I noticed my local Peugeot garage has a launch edition 500 for sale & have dropped the price by a grand in last 4weeks to try & sell it, started at £12495 now down to £11495.

One car in that was mentioned earlier that's done remarkably well for deprecation is the Swift Sport with 4 year old cars going for £8k when they were only £11k new! Ok so they are nearer £13k now new.

Love the CVH being mentioned, the engine got a fairly bad press but much of this was due to government intervention.

The CVH was designed to be a lean burn engine as a way of reducing emissions. Margaret Thatcher was a chemist by trade & totally understood how engines worked & opposed the catalytic converter as she knew that yes it did reduce emissions but at far too high a cost elsewhere. It's about the only thing she has been vindicated for now, but we've gone down a certain route with regards to engines sadly.

Therefore the CVH had to be modified to the new regulations, not the regulations it was bring designed for.

Boost pressure is not the only measure of turbo charging, the tiny turbo on a 500 boosting to 1.3bar is not flowing the same amount of air as say the big turbo on my integrale. You can increase turbo size and have less boost but make more power, its much more complex than just boost levels. An integrale running 1.7bar on original T3 turbo will make 270ish bhp, but an integrale running a GT2871R at 1.4 bar will make 300ish bhp. A small turbo running more boost will heat up the air more causing power to drop but will in general spin up quicker reducing lag, big turbo slower to spool up but doesn't heat the charge as much hence more power. Thats about as straight forward to think about it as can be.