Technical The one and only Dualogic failure thread

[jackwhoo]

A

An OBD 2 Car Diagnostic

If it is a generic obd2 tool it is only capable of reading basic engine info.

You will need multi ecu scan software and interface.

There is loads of info on this thread already regarding multi ecu scan and communicating with the transmition ecu.

You could check fluid levels, battery, battery ground lead .
DO NOT PUT GEAR OIL IN THE DUALOGIC RESERVOIR
There is no simple easy fix for the dualogic gearbox. You need MES and interface to find out where to start diagnosis.

 

[steveras57]

An OBD 2 Car Diagnostic

Its probably not specific enough!- you would be better off using a fiat diagnostic tool, or try and find another member with MES software near you who might help!

 

[Jussi69]

AlfaOBD also understands the dualogic / selespeed robots

 

[CRIPACEMT]

Thank you all, you were really helpful - I will set up an appointment with my mechanic so can use a more advanced diagnostic tool and hopefully we will able to find the issue

 

[tod2024]

Hi, my mrs has a 2012 Fiat 500 1.2 dualogic automatic that's nearing 70k miles. Over the last year or so it's developed a growling kind of noise in first gear and second gear. It seems more noticeable in first gear. We're based in Ireland and I've called around some Fiat garages (as well as other garages) and none of them have heard of a 500 having any similar problems. A few of them said to drop it in for a diagnostic but it would be likely the transmission would need to come out and be serviced/reconditioned. I did a little research here and online in general and some have recommended topping up or changing out the transmission fluid as a starting point to see if that helps. It sounds like a more measured approach and a reasonable first step. Just wondering if anyone has ever heard of this problem before or have even had this problem before? And what was the fix? Also, just to add... the car is driving fine. It's selecting and going into gear like it always had. There's no loss of power or any other noticeable symptoms other than the noise in the low gears. Thanks in advance for the help. Appreciated.

Edit: Just to add some more information: The car has just had a pre NCT check and all rubbers, bearings, tyres, pads, discs and so on seem to be fine. No noise other than the growling when in first gear. I did have a look under the bonnet and on the right side there seems to be a small oil leak or seepage in an area underneath the battery tray. It's nothing major and not enough to drip onto the ground. The car is parked in the same place all the time and there's no oil on the ground. But there is a bit of oil and then some oil that has dried out and soaked into the dust if that makes sense. The oil leak/seepage seems to be on top of the engine part that sits underneath the battery tray though. I can't really see it properly but it's strange that a leak/seepage would leak upwards rather than down!

 

[varesecrazy]

What's it like in reverse..?

 

[tod2024]

What's it like in reverse..?

Reverse seems to be okay. It goes into reverse gear no problem and doesn't make any more noise than it used to. It's maybe a tiny bit growly or whine'y maybe but nothing much.

 

[varesecrazy]

Reverse seems to be okay. It goes into reverse gear no problem and doesn't make any more noise than it used to. It's maybe a tiny bit growly or whine'y maybe but nothing much.

Awkward.. As you cannot dip the clutch like a manual and listen for changes


One option..
Raise the front of the car, secure it on Axle Stands

Then you will hear / feel things without wind and tyre noise..

I did this with a wheel bearing..
It was an obvious drum that was heard.. / felt in the cabin

The gearbox is basically a manual.. And they are reasonably robust


Have you owned it long enough to rule out abuse..?

 

[tod2024]

Awkward.. As you cannot dip the clutch like a manual and listen for changes


One option..
Raise the front of the car, secure it on Axle Stands

Then you will hear / feel things without wind and tyre noise..

I did this with a wheel bearing..
It was an obvious drum that was heard.. / felt in the cabin

The gearbox is basically a manual.. And they are reasonably robust


Have you owned it long enough to rule out abuse..?

The mrs has had it since 2019 and there was 30k miles on it. The noise only developed over the past 6 months or year. She's a tidy little driver and doesn't drive rough or break the speed limit. The car also just had a pre NCT check and all rubbers, bearings, tyres, pads, discs and so on seem to be fine. No noise other than the growling when in first gear. I did have a look under the bonnet and on the right side there seems to be a small oil leak or seepage in an area underneath the battery tray. It's nothing major and not enough to drip onto the ground. The car is parked in the same place all the time and there's no oil on the ground. But there is a bit of oil and then some oil that has dried out and soaked into the dust if that makes sense. The oil leak/seepage seems to be on top of the engine part that sits underneath the battery tray though. I can't really see it properly but it's strange that a leak/seepage would leak upwards rather than down!

 

[varesecrazy]

Potentially Selespeed fluid..?

 

[jrkitching]

Over the last year or so it's developed a growling kind of noise in first gear and second gear. It seems more noticeable in first gear

This is rather unusual and suggests the problem may be with the gearbox itself, not the actuating mechanism. These 'boxes are known to have a somewhat weak input shaft bearing and this may have worn excessively, leading to excessive play inside the 'box, and hence the noise. I don't think I've seen this before on a dualogic, though.

If there is any seepage of fluid, it's important to establish if it's selespeed fluid, or gearbox oil, as that will determine where to go next with this.

 

[tod2024]

Potentially Selespeed fluid..?

It could possibly be alright. Excuse my ignorance but is the Selespeed like the clutch part? Is it possible to top up the Selespeed oil or is that a closed unit?

 

[tod2024]

This is rather unusual and suggests the problem may be with the gearbox itself, not the actuating mechanism. These 'boxes are known to have a somewhat weak input shaft bearing and this may have worn excessively, leading to excessive play inside the 'box, and hence the noise. I don't think I've seen this before on a dualogic, though.

If there is any seepage of fluid, it's important to establish if it's selespeed fluid, or gearbox oil, as that will determine where to go next with this.

It's a strange one alright. It goes into gear nice and smoothly and drives perfectly (other than the noise). Once in third gear and up it's completely fine. Not a sound other than the normal driving sounds. Apologies for my ignorance but is it possible to change out the selespeed fluid? And same question for the gearbox fluid? Is gearbox fluid and transmission fluid the same thing? Thanks.

 

[jackwhoo]

It's a strange one alright. It goes into gear nice and smoothly and drives perfectly (other than the noise). Once in third gear and up it's completely fine. Not a sound other than the normal driving sounds. Apologies for my ignorance but is it possible to change out the selespeed fluid? And same question for the gearbox fluid? Is gearbox fluid and transmission fluid the same thing? Thanks.

Do not attempt any fluid change /top up at all until you are 100% sure you know what you are doing .

Selespeed fluid is the ONLY fluid to use in the "robot" that controls the clutch and gearchanges for you. If any other fluid is put in the robot the robot will have a fit and it will be an expensive world of pain.

The gearbox needs the correct transmission fluid for manual fiat 1.2 petrol 500s / pandas.

Parts of the robot may be in way of full plug for gearbox.

From your description could well be gearbox input shaft wear noise as suggested.....I drove a 500 1.2 petrol manual yesterday , gearbox noisy in first , second and third . Most noise in first reducing going up gears-pretty sure that one is input shaft wear noise.

 

[tod2024]

Do not attempt any fluid change /top up at all until you are 100% sure you know what you are doing .

Selespeed fluid is the ONLY fluid to use in the "robot" that controls the clutch and gearchanges for you. If any other fluid is put in the robot the robot will have a fit and it will be an expensive world of pain.

The gearbox needs the correct transmission fluid for manual fiat 1.2 petrol 500s / pandas.

Parts of the robot may be in way of full plug for gearbox.

From your description could well be gearbox input shaft wear noise as suggested.....I drove a 500 1.2 petrol manual yesterday , gearbox noisy in first , second and third . Most noise in first reducing going up gears-pretty sure that one is input shaft wear noise.

If I waited until I was 100% sure of what I was doing I'd never do anything ;o) Seriously though, I don't plan on doing any of the work on this area of the car myself. Just trying to figure out if anyone else has had the problem in order to bring some info to the mechanic. I was chatting to some Fiat stealerships and they wanted a bazillion euro for just having a look at it without doing any work so I won't be going down that route. The guy I'm bringing it to knows his stuff but doesn't particularly like Fiats and appreciates it when I bring him some high level info/research along with the problem. So only Selespeed fluid for the robot part of the transmission and the correct fluid for the transmission/gearbox. Do you know where I might find specifications for the oil for each of those? I think I read somewhere not to use "EP" type oil in the transmission. What you mentioned about the Fiat you drove yesterday sounds very similar to the mrs car. Going into first and second and all gears fine without any noise but then when driving there's a growling kind of rough noise in first and a little in second then normal in third and the rest of the gears. What's the fix for input shaft wear noise? Pull out the gearbox and recondition I suppose? I read a few posts online where others were having a similar problem and changed the transmission oil and it wasn't as bad after. I'll maybe speak to the mechanic and see what he thinks about doing that as a place to begin. Cheers for the reply.

 

[jackwhoo]

Yes try new transmission fluid and if it's better great job done

 

[jrkitching]

What's the fix for input shaft wear noise...

...Pull out the gearbox and recondition I suppose

You've just answered your own question.

But right now this is just a reasonable guess, not a diagnosis of the problem.

I read a few posts online where others were having a similar problem and changed the transmission oil and it wasn't as bad after

Changing or even just topping up (if low) the gearbox oil may help in the short term. But if the input shaft bearing is worn, chances are that its oil seal is also compromised, in which case it won't be long before the new oil, now at its correct level, gets onto the clutch and then that is going to need replacing as well as having the gearbox reconditioned. Then all this is going to need recalibrating in software and if the garage isn't a Fiat specialist, this offers endless potential to go wrong and get into difficulties.

You need to find out everything that is wrong before committing to any significant expenditure, and in particular identify exactly what, if anything, is leaking. If in addition to a worn gearbox, there's any evidence of selespeed fluid anywhere it shouldn't be, then I doubt the car is economically repairable.

If a quick top up of the relevant fluids makes the current problem go away, I'd give very serious thought to selling the car whilst you have the chance.

And if you're wondering why I'm suggesting this, just read the rest of the thread....

 

[tod2024]

You've just answered your own question.

But right now this is just a reasonable guess, not a diagnosis of the problem.

Changing or even just topping up (if low) the gearbox oil may help in the short term. But if the input shaft bearing is worn, chances are that its oil seal is also compromised, in which case it won't be long before the new oil, now at its correct level, gets onto the clutch and then that is going to need replacing as well as having the gearbox reconditioned.

You need to find out everything that is wrong before committing to any significant expenditure, and in particular identify exactly what, if anything, is leaking. If in addition to a worn gearbox, there's any evidence of selespeed fluid anywhere it shouldn't be, then I doubt the car is economically repairable.

If a quick top up of the relevant fluids makes the current problem go away, I'd give very serious thought to selling the car whilst you have the chance.

Great advice. Thanks for your help.

 

[nothinghyper]

Hello,

I have a fiat500 automatic. The car drives for a while but after sometime gear falls to N and im not able to switch gears. After i wait around a day or so everything goes back to normal and problem keeps repeating itself.

The following error codes are : P060C-85
P1742-1C
P1773-7B
P1810-79
P1744-1C

it feels like the pressure is not enough to change the gear maybe ? can someone please help me about it ?

 

[jrkitching]

Hi and welcome to the forum. I'm sorry to hear you're having problems with your car's transmission.

I'd suggest you read through this thread, which may help to answer your question, although the answer may not be what you want to hear.

Problems with these transmissions are common, and garages capable of repairing them at economical cost are as rare as hen's teeth.