Technical Smell + noise?

[jackwhoo]

You fit the boots to the caliper.
It would be impossible to fit them as in pic 2
So all makes sense(-:

 

[portland_bill]

Yes, Pic1. The metal surround has a little flange so it seats into the caliper. The boots will fold into themselves, take care to get the inner lip into the groove on the pin. Some mild swearing may be necessary.

 

[Gman88667733]

So the bottom boot by the thread goes rubber skinny end into the caliper and the top one goes onto the pin? Bit confused.

 

[jackwhoo]

So the bottom boot by the thread goes rubber skinny end into the caliper and the top one goes onto the pin? Bit confused.

Both fit as shown in pic 1.

You can fit both boots to caliper first then gently and carefully fit the slide pin through the boot into the caliper ready for screwing to pad carrier.


ie Fit both boots to the caliper with rubber boots sticking outward , then fit pin through boot till it sticks out boot at other side.

Have you pulled the old boot metal rings out of caliper? New boots won't fit till you get all the old boot out of caliper.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

So the bottom boot by the thread goes rubber skinny end into the caliper and the top one goes onto the pin? Bit confused.

Not quite sure what you mean? The first pic you posted shows the correct orientation. The ends with the metal ferule fit the body of the caliper and once installed grip the hole in the caliper. The rubber ends fit into the grooves on the pin. Hope that makes sense?

 

[Gman88667733]

Both fit as shown in pic 1.

You can fit both boots to caliper first then gently and carefully fit the slide pin through the boot into the caliper ready for screwing to pad carrier.


ie Fit both boots to the caliper with rubber boots sticking outward , then fit pin through boot till it sticks out boot at other side.

Have you pulled the old boot metal rings out of caliper? New boots won't fit till you get all the old boot out of caliper.

Need to check if the metal rings have come out of the caliper.

 

[Gman88667733]

Ah okay, so Picture 1 wasn't quite right? I need to put the bottom boot in the other way round and then push the boot back through it, so the lip of the metal ring sits inside the caliper. Then sit the other boot directly on top as shown in the image?

Actually, ignore that again.
Fit the bottom boot to the bottom end as shown in the image and the top to the top side as shown?

The narrow end of the boot is a very tight fit on the pin, will the pin be able to go through it that end first?

Oops!


Without seeing it in front of me (I'm fitting it back on later) I was struggling to picture it all. Hopefully it'll all go back on nicely later. The rubber boot that was at the caliper end previously tore as I got the old out out, so I expect the remnants are in the hole.

 

[jackwhoo]

Ah okay, so Picture 1 wasn't quite right? I need to put the bottom boot in the other way round and then push the boot back through it, so the lip of the metal ring sits inside the caliper. Then sit the other boot directly on top as shown in the image?

Actually, ignore that again.
Fit the bottom boot to the bottom end as shown in the image and the top to the top side as shown?

The narrow end of the boot is a very tight fit on the pin, will the pin be able to go through it that end first?

Oops!


Without seeing it in front of me (I'm fitting it back on later) I was struggling to picture it all. Hopefully it'll all go back on nicely later. The rubber boot that was at the caliper end previously tore as I got the old out out, so I expect the remnants are in the hole.

Ah that explains your over thinking it.
Don't worry when it's in your hand you will be fine.

both rubbers fitted to caliper
Gently stretch rubber opening so you can get your shaft tip in, lube will help , when you get tip of your shaft started in rubber don't push in too quickly or the rubber may fold back on its self. If that happens don't panic
It happens to everyone! Just pull out gently and try again, take your time there is no prize for finishing quickly

((-;

 

[Gman88667733]

Doing it now!

 

[jrkitching]

...
Gently stretch rubber opening so you can get your shaft tip in, lube will help , when you get tip of your shaft started in rubber don't push in too quickly or the rubber may fold back on its self. If that happens don't panic
It happens to everyone! Just pull out gently and try again, take your time there is no prize for finishing quickly...

I ought to censor that but it's so amusing I just can't bring myself to do it .

I'll just add that if you don't apply enough lube in the right place, the whole thing will overheat, and you may notice a strange smell...

 

[Gman88667733]

Next question - how on earth do you get the old boots out?
Can't seem to grip the metal ring to get it out

 

[jrkitching]

You may not have realised it, but the picture you posted earlier has captured the cause of your original problem.

The channels in the pad carriers that locate the pads are way too corroded to work effectively, and that small dab of copperease is nowhere near sufficient to properly lubricate the surfaces on which the pads slide.

Look again at the pictures in the post I linked to earlier to see how clean these need to be for optimal brake performance.

You'll also need to remove the pad carrier on the other side to clean it properly - there's no way of doing this with the carrier on the car, since the disc gets in the way.

These pad carriers are a good example of Fiat's abysmal OEM parts quality - on one of mine, the blind threaded hole for the caliper bolt had been drilled right through the casting, allowing water to enter and greatly accelerating the corrosion.

I can confirm that both the pad carrier retaining bolts and the sliding bolt on the caliper are threadlocked at the factory; considerable force was needed to remove mine for the first time, when the car was less than a month old. I didn't replace the threadlocking compound, greased the bolts, and tightened to 2/3 of the recommended torque settings for ungreased bolts. This car is now ten years old, with almost 100,000 miles on the clock. Subsequent pad and disc removal has been a breeze and nothing has ever shown the slightest sign of loosening. I've dismantled, cleaned and relubricated every two years; by then, even with the treatment described in the linked thread, corrosion is starting to form on the sliding surfaces. I fitted the second set of replacement pads & discs just last year; pads & discs have lasted about 45000 miles a set.

 

[Gman88667733]

I'm in a bit of a mess. Both boots have torn off, but there is leftover rubber in the caliper and the metal portion still in there.

 

[Gman88667733]

You may not have realised it, but the picture you posted earlier has captured the cause of your original problem.

The channels in the pad carriers that locate the pads are way too corroded to work effectively, and that small dab of copperease is nowhere near sufficient to properly lubricate the surfaces on which the pads slide.

Look again at the pictures in the post I linked to earlier to see how clean these need to be for optimal brake performance.

You'll also need to remove the pad carrier on the other side to clean it properly - there's no way of doing this with the carrier on the car, since the disc gets in the way.

These pad carriers are a good example of Fiat's abysmal OEM parts quality - on one of mine, the blind threaded hole for the caliper bolt had been drilled right through the casting, allowing water to enter and greatly accelerating the corrosion.

I understand that. But my immediate problem is getting it driveable so that I can get the new tyres on tomorrow morning and then I can properly sort it after.

 

[jimboy]

Can you get the use of another vehicle. Take the wheels off and ferry them in the borrowed vehicle.

 

[Gman88667733]

Can you get the use of another vehicle. Take the wheels off and ferry them in the borrowed vehicle.

I do, but not enough jack stands to prop the car up.
How on earth do I get these boot remnants out

 

[jimboy]

Not to pour cold water over your work, but even if you manage to assemble callipers in a working condition, you are just asking for problems later on. Refurbished was really the best option.

 

[jrkitching]

How on earth do I get these boot remnants out

I've looked through eLearn, and sadly there isn't a procedure for this (though interestingly there is a procedure for replacing the caliper piston seals). I've not done one myself, but I have a set of old flat bladed screwdrivers for jobs like this and that would be my first port of call.

Looking at the state of those calipers, I'm inclined to support jimboy's view. The trade absolutely wouldn't be messing around and would just fit new or service exchange calipers.

I once made the mistake of fitting a set of aftermarket bushes to the bottom bracket assembly on a Ford Ka (the normal procedure is just to replace the assembly complete, but the balljoint was absolutely fine and it seemed a waste to throw all that metal away). It took the best part of an afternoon using a very heavy duty workshop vice (I kid you not). I'd never attempt refurbishing components like this again without a hydraulic press and the appropriate tooling, and even then, I probably wouldn't bother.

You're saving a lot of money by doing your own car maintenance; be kind to yourself and make the job as easy as possible by investing in decent parts and tools.

 

[Gman88667733]

This is a bloody nightmare.
Going to take the caliper off and see if the garage can get them out. If not, a new caliper it is. Gutted.

 

[Gman88667733]

So shall I just ask the garage to order me in a new caliper? Then when they have to car to do the wheels, do the other side as well to save any headaches?