OP
OP
Police community support officers have failed to solve a single crime in three years.
- Thread starter Shadeyman
- Start date
Currently reading:
Police community support officers have failed to solve a single crime in three years.
OP
OP
The number of police officers employed by Britain's largest force could fall by more than 1,000 as it struggles to meet huge cash cuts.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/number-of-met-officers-could-fall-by-1000-2177830.html
We're loosing 1000 of the UK's finest due to cash cuts. This country desperately needs these police officers, we cannot afford to loose 1 let alone 1000 of them. Its time we stopped wasting money on "accessible & visible", and put the money to better use!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/number-of-met-officers-could-fall-by-1000-2177830.html
We're loosing 1000 of the UK's finest due to cash cuts. This country desperately needs these police officers, we cannot afford to loose 1 let alone 1000 of them. Its time we stopped wasting money on "accessible & visible", and put the money to better use!
Actually, I was about to correct myself as the next day the cordon round Miss Yeates' home was actually manned by PCSOs. Many serious crime scenes in the Met also have the cordons managed by PCSOs. BTP also have PCSOs and they are equipped with quick-cuffs as they may find themselves on a train with an aggressive/violent offender with assistance half an hour or maybe more away.
If you read what I posted before, you may have noticed that I did say that the role of the PCSO is intelligence gathering. They have the time to spend with members of the public whereas Police Officers don't as they are constantly hurtling from one call to the next. Depending on how their Inspector deploys them, PCSOs could be working on a housing estate where there are problems with youths or dealing with prostitutes and drug addicts. On one of the central Manchester divisions PCSOs looked at a series of burglaries and used Google Earth to look at all the sites. No-one else worked it out, but they realised that those in the morning followed a route from one street to a school and in the afternoon from the school back to the same street. They did it all except the actual lock up.
You also need to bear in mind that in most (all?) Force areas they are not even allowed to take a crime report unless they come across it in the course of their patrols. PCSOs also Stop/Account people they come across and, often when on their own find out the person they are with has Warning Markers for violence, weapons, firearms, drugs and the like. Put yourself in their position, would you like to have to deal with someone like that; in the dark? Perhaps the person in question has recently been found in posession of a razorblade pushed into the handle of a toothbrush which was concealed up his sleeve. Stab vests don't protect the throat or jugular and a "safety" razor blade in a toothbrush could easily cut your jugular.
How about a .22 target pistol? Well, from a range of about 60' the vest would probably stop a round. 9mm? Forget it, you're dead. .38 Special? No chance,357 Magnum? Let's not go there. So you are on your own, in the dark with someone you've never met before who just turns out to have a warrant out for him with a knife or razor in his pocket and you don't have a baton, cuffs or even a Tazer.
If you want to know one of the main differences between a top whack PCSO and a top whack PC? About £15,000 a year.
Modern policing is not just about going out and catching criminals anymore. The role of PCSO's has been portrayed badly since they were launced in 2002. Therefore there are so many misconceptions about their role, responsibilities and uses. When they were launched, even many police officers thought they were a waste of time and money!
Firstly, the start of this thread is about PCSO's "detecting" crime. A crime is classed as "detected" when an offender or suspect is formally dealt with for the crime they have committed. For example, charged, cautioned, given a fixed penalty, Prison sentence etc etc etc. None of this falls within a PCSO's remit. They do not arrest people, they do not deal with suspects in custody etc etc. Therefore, the fact they have any "detections" noted against them at all is a good thing. HOWEVER, how many PCSO's do you think have obtained information from member of the public, that has LED to a detection that would be counted towards a regular officer? A PCSO has the time and freedom to walk around an estate and TALK to people and find out whos doing what and when and where. Most regular officers dont have the time to get this sort of intelligence, as they are busy going from job to job to job.
Ideally, yes, replace/convert ALL pcso's with regular officers, which would essentially almost double the number of officers in many forces. However its not that simple. The cost of training a regular officer is FAR more , and takes much longer. The cost of providing kit for a regular officer is FAR more than that of providing kit for a PCSO. This comes down to "budgetry constraints" which falls at the door of the government and not the polcie forces or police officers themselves.
Then there is the argument that over the years and many high profile cases, the police service has alienated itself from some sections of society. One of the aims of introducing PCSO's is to make the police more accessible and friendly, and to spend time TALKING to communities and listening to their worries and concerns. This in turn helps build bridges between the police service and many communities that normally wouldn't associate with the police.
All of these things are an essential part of modern policing, and if it wasnt for the PCSO's, regular officers would be stuck doing all these things ASWELL as trying to get to your house on blues and twos when your being burgled and then subsequently investigating the crime and locating offenders and then dealing with them in custody AND providing the case files for court etc.
As already said, PCSO's can control cordons. Take the recent murder of Jo Yates, on the initial discovery of the body, the crime scenes were controlled by officers, these officers were then relived by PCSO's, enabling the PC's to go and do essential jobs that they would otherwise be unable to attend.
So imo PCSO's are not a waste of money, they actually provide a useful service to both the public and the police service itself. Yes you could sack 5 PCSO;s and replace them with 1 police constable, but what use is that police constable if he/she is stuck on a cordon? Or stop checking a group of youths hanging around outside some shops? Or dealing with a neighbour dispute over the height of a hedge? All of these things can be done by a PCSO allowing the PC to go and arrest real criminals.
It all comes down to money at the end of the day, ideally we would all like more police officers on the streets, but without government funding that cant happen.
Just a few weeks ago, a PCSO in london was seriously injured when assisting a PC arrest a suspect. The PC was stabbed/slashed several times with a stanley knife, so severely that he was in a life threatening condition. The PCSO with him pulled the offender off him, receiving severe wounds himself in the process. Would I say that the PCSO was a waste of money? NO. He gets paid half as much as the PC, cost half as much in terms of kit/ training etc, but still puts his life on the line.
Firstly, the start of this thread is about PCSO's "detecting" crime. A crime is classed as "detected" when an offender or suspect is formally dealt with for the crime they have committed. For example, charged, cautioned, given a fixed penalty, Prison sentence etc etc etc. None of this falls within a PCSO's remit. They do not arrest people, they do not deal with suspects in custody etc etc. Therefore, the fact they have any "detections" noted against them at all is a good thing. HOWEVER, how many PCSO's do you think have obtained information from member of the public, that has LED to a detection that would be counted towards a regular officer? A PCSO has the time and freedom to walk around an estate and TALK to people and find out whos doing what and when and where. Most regular officers dont have the time to get this sort of intelligence, as they are busy going from job to job to job.
Ideally, yes, replace/convert ALL pcso's with regular officers, which would essentially almost double the number of officers in many forces. However its not that simple. The cost of training a regular officer is FAR more , and takes much longer. The cost of providing kit for a regular officer is FAR more than that of providing kit for a PCSO. This comes down to "budgetry constraints" which falls at the door of the government and not the polcie forces or police officers themselves.
Then there is the argument that over the years and many high profile cases, the police service has alienated itself from some sections of society. One of the aims of introducing PCSO's is to make the police more accessible and friendly, and to spend time TALKING to communities and listening to their worries and concerns. This in turn helps build bridges between the police service and many communities that normally wouldn't associate with the police.
All of these things are an essential part of modern policing, and if it wasnt for the PCSO's, regular officers would be stuck doing all these things ASWELL as trying to get to your house on blues and twos when your being burgled and then subsequently investigating the crime and locating offenders and then dealing with them in custody AND providing the case files for court etc.
As already said, PCSO's can control cordons. Take the recent murder of Jo Yates, on the initial discovery of the body, the crime scenes were controlled by officers, these officers were then relived by PCSO's, enabling the PC's to go and do essential jobs that they would otherwise be unable to attend.
So imo PCSO's are not a waste of money, they actually provide a useful service to both the public and the police service itself. Yes you could sack 5 PCSO;s and replace them with 1 police constable, but what use is that police constable if he/she is stuck on a cordon? Or stop checking a group of youths hanging around outside some shops? Or dealing with a neighbour dispute over the height of a hedge? All of these things can be done by a PCSO allowing the PC to go and arrest real criminals.
It all comes down to money at the end of the day, ideally we would all like more police officers on the streets, but without government funding that cant happen.
Just a few weeks ago, a PCSO in london was seriously injured when assisting a PC arrest a suspect. The PC was stabbed/slashed several times with a stanley knife, so severely that he was in a life threatening condition. The PCSO with him pulled the offender off him, receiving severe wounds himself in the process. Would I say that the PCSO was a waste of money? NO. He gets paid half as much as the PC, cost half as much in terms of kit/ training etc, but still puts his life on the line.
Actually, you can't make a Police Officer redundant. The only ones who will be going are those who can retire and will be taking their £100,000 lump sum and pension. Tomorrow night I will be going to a retirement bash for a colleague who joined the Force in 1973. That's 37 years and for the last three years has been earning almost £40,000 per year as a Community Beat Manager and his hours have been Monday to Friday, 8am to 5pm. One of the reasons he is retiring now is that his benefits won't get any better and may even get worse if (when) the final salary scheme ends.
Others are far more aggressive when it comes to detecting crime and I've been working with one PC and between us we've detected two burglaries, several thefts of air freight, one case of a man taking pictures of schoolgirls' underwear as they've been going upstairs on a bus and a number of other crimes. The detection, and preparation of prosecution files, going off the Division to carry out interviews not to mention dealing with protestors and all sorts of things such as dealing with human remains entering the country, Ferraris, Bentleys, Mercedes SLS, Formula 1 and rally cars leaving the country could not have been done without the PCSOs. It all depends on how they are deployed and motivated.
OP
OP
You could post the same video for a PC, Or a Mechanic, Or an Electrician. All making a mistake or doing something stupid.
Search youtube and im sure youl find HUNDREDS of videos about "stupid police officers" or "police brutality" etc etc.
Plus I must add, that IS NOT a PCSO, they are not wearing Metropolitan Police PCSO unform. Infact it is a POLICE MOTORCYCLIST. And if you look at 0:11 you will see his police motorcycle parked at the junction.
From that video it looks like he's made a mistake. But that video doesn't show everything. So im not going to say who is at fault. Looks liek the police officer but for all i know that motorcyclist may have passed another officer telling him to stop, as you would expect there to be at least 2 officers directing traffic at a junction such as that.
Cop this.....shouldnt really laugh but it reinforces just how inane some of your comments are Shadey.
Exactly my point sledge!
Everyone does stupid things and makes mistakes no matter who they are or what they do. Posting a video (that is factually wrong) doesnt prove that "pcso's are a waste of money" any more then sledges video proves that "all builders are stupid and throw things without looking"
Alan
EDIT: Oh and "cop this" :
:
added to youtube comments
OP
OP
I personally find PCSO's a waste of tax payers time and money.
They're a joke, as effective as a chocolate teapot here in Wolverhampton.
"accessible & visible" so is 999, save money and call a real copper.
"that IS NOT a PCSO, they are not wearing Metropolitan Police PCSO unform. Infact it is a POLICE MOTORCYCLIST. And if you look at 0:11 you will see his police motorcycle parked at the junction"
Police motorcyclists dont wear 3 quarter lenght high viz jackets, they wear short bomber style jackets.
0.11 his motorcycle parked. Where?
Finally the person with the camera says:
"Arrrrgh! Fukin stupid idiot! Ha ha ha ha. That stupid fukin PCSO"
So i'll take his word for it.
Attachments
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2008
- Messages
- 4,883
- Points
- 860
Sadly Shadeyman seems very closed minded about things.
In every profession someone makes a mistake, I'm sure if you put 'stupid 'insert profession here'' into Youtube you'll get loads.
In every profession someone makes a mistake, I'm sure if you put 'stupid 'insert profession here'' into Youtube you'll get loads.
OP
OP
I just tried "Stupid retired builder" sadly nothing.
Closed minded, why, because I agree with many others that PCSO's are a waste of tax payers money and it would be better spent improving the services provided by real police officers?
£86m bill for 'plastic police' who issue one fine every two years.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...-police-who-issue-one-fine-every-two-years.do
The £1.2bn spent on PCSOs could have funded 7,200 full-time police officers.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-support-officers-300-000.html#ixzz1ATYEP1bt
Cut by a quarter: 3,000 jobs to go at Greater Manchester Police.
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereve..._3000_jobs_to_go_at_greater_manchester_police
TaxPayers' Alliance said the figures showed that support officers were no more than a PR stunt. 'Taxpayers want real bobbies on the beat, not these plastic policemen,' he added.
'With no powers of arrest and incredibly low productivity, it is hard to see how these PCSOs are value for money for taxpayers, or indeed useful.'
http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/me...ost-taxpayers-8m-detected-just-50-crimes.html
Last edited:
All depends on which force. Metropolitan Police motorcyclists (where that video has been filmed) have both. In the winter most wear the longer ones. Metropolitain Police PCSO's are not issued with heavy weight 3/4 length jackets as in the video. They are only issued with 3/4 length "light weight" jackets. The markings, position of the reflective bands are incorrect for a metropolitan police PCSO also. The thick black weatherproof collar at the top of the jacket also means that it is a jacket only issued to metropolitain police motorcyclists. Also his trousers, the way they are "combat style" down by the boots.. again not issued to PCSO's in the Met, but thats just me getting a bit picky.
Oh and his bike is parked next to the white van.
As for the guys comments, well many people mistake PCSO's for PC's and PC's for PCSO's. Even a patrol Sgt or Inspector would be difficult to tell the difference between from that distance unless you know that your looking for.
Of course your entitled to your opinion on PCSO's. I too once thought similar to you. But that video proves nothing.
Shadey?
Todays papers are full of stories about contaminated eggs from Germany......AND YOU HAVENT POSTED ANY LINKS TO THEM!!!
.....are you ill or something?
Todays papers are full of stories about contaminated eggs from Germany......AND YOU HAVENT POSTED ANY LINKS TO THEM!!!
.....are you ill or something?
OP
OP
Shadey?
Todays papers are full of stories about contaminated eggs from Germany......AND YOU HAVENT POSTED ANY LINKS TO THEM!!!
.....are you ill or something?
The EU executive said 14 tonnes of eggs in liquid form had been exported to the UK but it was unclear if those eggs were contaminated.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12133402
I only use fresh eggs, that liquid stuff is nasty whether its contaminated or not.
And not i'll just a little busy. Makes a nice change.
Last edited:
Nice one Shadey, I knew you wouldnt let us down
liquid stuff is whats used by places that make thing with egg in isnt it? inc hotels scrambled eggs
Shadey?......you really should change your name. Something like "Teletext" would be more apt Have a word with Dave
Have a word with Dave
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2008
- Messages
- 4,883
- Points
- 860
I just tried "Stupid retired builder" sadly nothing.
Closed minded, why, because I agree with many others that PCSO's are a waste of tax payers money and it would be better spent improving the services provided by real police officers?
£86m bill for 'plastic police' who issue one fine every two years.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...-police-who-issue-one-fine-every-two-years.do
The £1.2bn spent on PCSOs could have funded 7,200 full-time police officers.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-support-officers-300-000.html#ixzz1ATYEP1bt
Cut by a quarter: 3,000 jobs to go at Greater Manchester Police.
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereve..._3000_jobs_to_go_at_greater_manchester_police
TaxPayers' Alliance said the figures showed that support officers were no more than a PR stunt. 'Taxpayers want real bobbies on the beat, not these plastic policemen,' he added.
'With no powers of arrest and incredibly low productivity, it is hard to see how these PCSOs are value for money for taxpayers, or indeed useful.'
http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/me...ost-taxpayers-8m-detected-just-50-crimes.html
But there are many others that think they are great.
As for the links from This Is London, believe its been said before, but they are used for prevention a lot around here, would you rather your car get stolen and you get it back, or for it never to get stolen in the first place?
