General Pedantic MOT Tester?

[Alfadeke21]

I have a 2007 Panda on a personal plate originally issued in 1994. They are metal plates, black on white & yellow reflective backings, numbers are correct size, script & spacing.
The only items missing are the BS number & the plate maker’s name & postcode. Up to now I’ve have had no problems with MOT’s. However the latest tester failed the car on “incorrect plates”. & hit me for the cost of new replacements & fitting them(!) £25 - or accept a fail. His argument was that the numbers were wrong size & wrongly spaced (by 1-2 mm possibly) & may not be able to be read by cameras.
My argument was that the plates were correct at the original 1994 issue date & were valid even when fitted to a vehicle first registered at a later year, 2007. The BS standards came in just after my 1994 number & my understanding is that most, if not all, MOT requirements are never retrospective.
I don’t have access to the Tester’s Manual, but on a trawl through the internet could find nothing to prove me right or wrong.
Does anyone have any thoughts, I wonder?

 

[chris3234]

Registration plate characters:

may contain grey, possibly to achieve a 3D effect
must be the correct size, stroke width and spacing
must not be italic, sloping or formed using broken or multiple strokes
must be laid out in the correct format for the age of vehicle
must be formed using the prescribed font or be substantially similar to the prescribed font - as shown below

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-ins...cial-vehicles/0-identification-of-the-vehicle
You do not have to physically measure the characters or their spacing and you should only reject them if they are obviously incorrect.

Registration plate characters

Registration plates fitted to vehicles manufactured on or after 1 January 1978 must:

have black characters on a white background when fitted to the front
have black characters on a yellow background when fitted to the rear
be fitted vertically, or as close to vertical as is reasonably practicable
Registration plates may be in a single or two line formats. Additionally, a three line format is permitted on vehicles first used before 1 September 2001.

Registration plate formats

Registration plates must meet the dimensional requirements shown in the example below. However, the space between a number ‘1’ or a letter ‘I’ and another character is permitted to be proportionately greater. Vehicles with non-date related plates, such as those issued before 1963 and Northern Ireland plates must still meet the separation requirement between groups of characters where relevant.

Registration plate character spacing

Vehicles registered before 1 September 2001 can have larger plates fitted with characters 89mm high and other relevant dimensions that are subsequently larger.

Tricycles, quadricycles and imported vehicles that do not have the space for standard sized registration plates can have smaller registration plates.


This is what the Manual States about plates https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-ins...cial-vehicles/0-identification-of-the-vehicle

 

[jrkitching]

Does anyone have any thoughts, I wonder?

The MOT tester was being pedantic.

Fron the MOT testers manual:

You do not need to inspect the following items:

• the supplier’s name
• postcode
• BS number
• logos or emblems outside the minimum margin around the registration number

You do not have to physically measure the characters or their spacing and you should only reject them if they are obviously incorrect.

My argument was that the plates were correct at the original 1994 issue date & were valid even when fitted to a vehicle first registered at a later year, 2007. The BS standards came in just after my 1994 number & my understanding is that most, if not all, MOT requirements are never retrospective.

In this case, the relevant date is the date the car the plates are on was first registered, not the date the plates were originally issued.

 

[varesecrazy]

I just spent 5 minutes replying to this..?

 

[chris3234]

I just spent 5 minutes replying to this..?

Two toppics with the same title in different sections

 

[koalar]

metal plates aren't legal on cars registered after 2001

I dont know if material is checked on a MOT


But now its flagged electronically on a MOT if you don't change them expect to be pulled and fined by the police

 

[g8rpi]

metal plates aren't legal on cars registered after 2001

I dont know if material is checked on a MOT


But now its flagged electronically on a MOT if you don't change them expect to be pulled and fined by the police

Do you have a refernc for this? It's news to me. This supposed approved seller says they are OK.
https://www.number1plates.com/plate-type/aluminium-number-plates/


I think the OP should complain about the test result. The tester has obviously been overzealous.

Robert G8RPI.

 

[koalar]

Do you have a refernc for this? It's news to me. This supposed approved seller says they are OK.
https://www.number1plates.com/plate-type/aluminium-number-plates/


I think the OP should complain about the test result. The tester has obviously been overzealous.

Robert G8RPI.

doesn't meet the British standard. Such as the bend and spring back. Very few materials do. Thing like infrared, scratch resistance are also test

no idea if its a requirement for MOT though.

standard pressed reg plates don't meet the legal requirement.

This for the UK Europe might be different

 

[koalar]

Do you have a refernc for this? It's news to me. This supposed approved seller says they are OK.
https://www.number1plates.com/plate-type/aluminium-number-plates/


I think the OP should complain about the test result. The tester has obviously been overzealous.

Robert G8RPI.

halfway down the page

https://www.click4reg.co.uk/blog/legal-number-plates-rules-made-simple/

or

https://www.platemaster.com/article... plates are legal,British Standard BS AU 145d.

 

[g8rpi]

doesn't meet the British standard. Such as the bend and spring back. Very few materials do. Thing like infrared, scratch resistance are also test

no idea if its a requirement for MOT though.

standard pressed reg plates don't meet the legal requirement.

This for the UK Europe might be different

I don't have access to the BS document (and am not going to pay for it) but understand from some research that the springback is a recommendation not a requirement. Some types of aluminium alloy in the right condtion (temper/hardness) would bend and spring back I've also seen websites saying aluminium plates are not leagal because they are not retroreflective and the this has to be inherent in the material. However acrylic is not retroreflective either. It's the backing that is retroreflective. The pressed aluminium plates I've seen have retroreflective material on the front which is compliant.
If the OP got pressed alloy plates from a DVLA registered supplier (like the one I linked to) with a BS mark on it they would be legal.


I think the OP was not fully legal because the plates were on a 2007 car but being off an older car they were not BS marked or compliant. However it is NOT a requirement of the MOT to check this so they should not have failed the car. A police or DVSA roadside check could however result in a defect notice or whatever they issue these days.

Robert G8RPI.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

To add further confusion to the mix two of the 4 Minis we've had since 2012, have had manufacture fitted metal number plates.

 

[Alfadeke21]

Firstly apologies for posting this in the wrong section initially.

Secondly thanks for all the interesting and useful information from everyone.

I think on balance I have to accept the Testers opinion this time as reading all these comments while the plates are technically in order I could then be failed for having non compliant BS plates. However I do accept that the extracts from the Manual seeem to make no reference to the composition of the materials.

Having chosen to go for a “cheap” MOT ultimately I ended up paying the equivalent of a full price test as offered by my usual independent garage- who has never had any problems with the exact same plates.

There seems to be a small escape clause regarding imported vehicles where I could choose to fit an Italian size front plate to an Italian (Polish) car…. .??

 

[varesecrazy]

I still dont see the argument over 'spacing.'?

Why would it be WRONG unless shuffled around?

 

[koalar]

To add further confusion to the mix two of the 4 Minis we've had since 2012, have had manufacture fitted metal number plates.

are they just metal ?

or a metal sandwich between an acrylic sheets

 

[jrkitching]

The tester has obviously been overzealous.

I'd agree with this. 'Jobsworth' is what comes to mind.

I think the OP should complain about the test result.

But not this; I think an appeal against the test result would not be upheld.

The tester is within his rights to fail it for reason 0.1(d) - number plates do not conform to the specified requirements. The plates don't have the necessary markings, and the fact that the tester need not have inspected this does not preclude him for failing the vehicle if they are not there.

Personally I'd deal with this by not using the MOT Testing station again, and advising others not to do the same.

But in fairness to the testing station, we don't know if there's anything else behind this. It could be that they've had a previous warning, and they're now being ultra cautious. At the end of the day, it's their licence and business that's at stake, and the livleihoods of their employees; it's not reasonable to ask them to put all that on the line to save a customer £25.

To add further confusion to the mix two of the 4 Minis we've had since 2012, have had manufacture fitted metal number plates.

It's not the material they're made of per se, it's whether the material they're made of meets the relevant standard (currently BS AU135d; BS AU 145e from 1 September 2021). Standard pressed metal plates do not meet this standard, but that does not preclude a plate manufacturer from developing a different combination of materials and then having them tested to ensure the requirements of the standard are met.

All number plate manufacturers must be registered with DVLA; making a number plate for road use if you are not registered can get you a £5000 fine. If you are registered, and you make a number plate from materials which do not conform to the applicable standard, you can be fined £2500.

I find it amusing that we are all now becoming more pedantic in this thread than the tester who failed them in the first place.

 

[g8rpi]

are they just metal ?

or a metal sandwich between an acrylic sheets

To be legal an "aluninium" plate must have a retroreflective background which will be a separate layer. An acrylic plate also hs a separate retroreflective layer as acrylic is not retroreflective. The only difference is what side the adhesive is on. All the alloy plates I've seen had stamped "3D" characters. It would need careful reading of the BS to see if stick-on or separate moulded charaters are acceptable.


Robert G8RPI.

 

[g8rpi]

halfway down the page

https://www.click4reg.co.uk/blog/legal-number-plates-rules-made-simple/

or

https://www.platemaster.com/article... plates are legal,British Standard BS AU 145d.

Those two companies are registration brokers. The company I linked to
https://www.number1plates.com/contact/
is also an approved and registered numberplate manufacturer. The argument that aluminium is not retroreflective is nosense, acrylic is not retroreflecive either.

This site seems to give good information
https://www.bnma.org/advice-centre/key-pieces-of-legislation/british-standard-bs-au-145d/

Interestingly it describes the bending test
https://www.bnma.org/research-and-t...plates-bs-au-145d/resistance-to-bending-test/
I don't see any issue designing a pressed aluminium alloy plate capable of passing that. The website does not descibe how / where ths plate is clamped / supported or weight attached.

Robert G8RPI.

 

[Alfadeke21]

Well !!!
I didn't anticipate opening a can of worms but am sincerely grateful to all the comments. I accept that I"m pretty well & truly shafted by MOT rules AND the Law.
For the moment I'm going to continue using my metal plates however (il)legal they may be. It's tempting providence to say that in all the years I've been using these plates I've never been stopped by a Police or VOSA check....

Returning to JR Kitching's first reply could I then argue that the plates were in conformity to the regulations when the Panda was first registered in 2007 and should continue to remain so?
I've not heard of any legal edict requiring all vehicles with earlier BS(a to d) standard to change their current plates in conformity to the latest BS(e) version.

For now I'll be looking more carefully in my rear view mirror!!!

 

[g8rpi]

Crossed edits!

I'd agree with this. 'Jobsworth' is what comes to mind.



But not this; I think an appeal against the test result would not be upheld.

The tester is within his rights to fail it for reason 0.1(d) - number plates do not conform to the specified requirements. The plates don't have the necessary markings, and the fact that the tester need not have inspected this does not preclude him for failing the vehicle if they are not there.
I disagree, the plate was apparently only off ay a mm or two, the tester should not fail unless it is obviously out by visual inspection.

They are not allowed to over inspect, it's similar to the rule about disassembly or using a screwdriver to test for rust rather than the specified tool. This is why people get MOT passes with illegal LED bulbs.
The compalaint is about the manner of inspection, not the actual condition of the vehicle.



Personally I'd deal with this by not using the MOT Testing station again, and advising others not to do the same.

But in fairness to the testing station, we don't know if there's anything else behind this. It could be that they've had a previous warning, and they're now being ultra cautious. At the end of the day, it's their licence and business that's at stake, and the livleihoods of their employees; it's not reasonable to ask them to put all that on the line to save a customer £25.



It's not the material they're made of per se, it's whether the material they're made of meets the relevant standard (currently BS AU135d; BS AU 145e from 1 September 2021). Standard pressed metal plates do not meet this standard,

Reference please? What "Standard"? As I say in my crossed post, and you confirm below, there is nothing to stop a pressed aluminium alloy plate passing

but that does not preclude a plate manufacturer from developing a different combination of materials and then having them tested to ensure the requirements of the standard are met.

All number plate manufacturers must be registered with DVLA; making a number plate for road use if you are not registered can get you a £5000 fine. If you are registered, and you make a number plate from materials which do not conform to the applicable standard, you can be fined £2500.
The supplier I linked to who says the pressed allloy plates they sell are legal is registered with the DVLA, I checked.

I find it amusing that we are all now becoming more pedantic in this thread than the tester who failed them in the first place.

 

[MrMagoo]

The tester said the letters were the wrong size and had incorrect spacing, so you need to get a second opinion. If the tester is wrong then make a claim.