Technical Ongoing Non Charging Issue

[GettinBetter]

So, Im beginning to worry about this, with winter getting closer, and the extra burden that will put on my daily charging routine.
I fear If I get stuck en route to work...blah blah blah... anyway...
Today I decided to check the earth path.
I connected a jump lead to the Neg terminal on the battery, and the other end on a large'ish bracket on the LHS of the engine and a DMM facing the drivers side window. Got in the car and proceeded to load the battery as follows. Engine off, voltage =12.8V. Headlight, main beam, foglights(front & back) heater fan full on, rear window heater. Voltage now 12.05V.
Started engine, after ~10seconds the voltage came up to 12.5V if I reved, voltage hardly increased at all. Did this twice. Identical results.

Disconnected the jump lead, and did it again.
With full load dragging the battery down to 12.00V, I started the engine. The voltage never came up, at all.

Pretty much says it all really. Can't fix it right now, but I now know what to do.

 

[John202020]

Got a spare battery? Try that?

 

[GettinBetter]

Got a spare battery? Try that?

Not sure I understand you?
Yes, I have a spare battery, but it's inferior to the one I have now.
Battery performed fine, its just not charging from the alternator, hasn't been since I got back from Europe. I've been charging it every night, from a voltage & current limited power supply. Which was fine til I got fed up with it, oh and worried that in winter the battery may not have sufficient capacity to put up with permanent headlights, wipers, heaters etc without the alternator charging.

 

[GettinBetter]

Ok, so I thought weather was supposed to be crap today, but upon checking at lunchtime, it forecast a rain free afternoon.
So went and made an extra earth (Neg) cable.
Took it from the 8mm nut on the neg terminal forward around the front chassis top edge, and (cable tied) across to the offside, and down to the large aluminium bracket, off the engine.

Powered all devices and equipment, and voltage was 11.95V, then started engine, and it came to 12.85V.

I'm happier with that, and also that the bonnet is now locked closed, rather than being on the latch with a cable running into it all night.

Next couple of days will be test mode, and I'll take my DMM to test the voltage when I arrive at work.

 

[GettinBetter]

First trip out....drove around for roughly 3 to 4 hrs, using intermitent wipers, radio, heater fan. Got back, checked voltage at battery... 12.7V it would normally be down to about 12.0 to 12.2V after that sort of journey.

So initial test is good, will keep an eye on it over the next few days.

I was thinking about doing a proxi, to see if the odo stops flashing, I know its a long shot, but who knows??

 

[GettinBetter]

Update:
A week has passed and all is fine. Went to work all week, and on a 250 mile round trip yesterday, using all the electrical components required and battery is staying at a constant 12.7V.
So the additional earth cable has fixed it.

 

[Piccolo Nero e Bella]

Update:
A week has passed and all is fine. Went to work all week, and on a 250 mile round trip yesterday, using all the electrical components required and battery is staying at a constant 12.7V.
So the additional earth cable has fixed it.

Nice. I think I'll look at getting my car's earth lead replaced/augmented just to be on the safe side. We don't have the corrosion issues down here (my rear beam looks almost new!) but the car's over 11 years now so it might need looking into.

 

[vexorg]

12.7v is too low when running, but you seem happy with it.

 

[John202020]

I'll have to measure ours

 

[RalphM]

Engine running it should be about 14v 12.7 is good if engine off.

 

[steveras57]

Nice. I think I'll look at getting my car's earth lead replaced/augmented just to be on the safe side. We don't have the corrosion issues down here (my rear beam looks almost new!) but the car's over 11 years now so it might need looking into.

To be honest when you get to our age we are deteriorating faster than the cars reckon your weather helps you though

 

[GettinBetter]

Engine running it should be about 14v 12.7 is good if engine off.

Yep, engine off. Checked after a run out. Usually when doing a round trip to work and back it would be down to 12.2V. That's with pretty light power usage, and headlights one way.
I can now fully load the alternator, and it stays at 12.7V .

 

[GettinBetter]

Nice. I think I'll look at getting my car's earth lead replaced/augmented just to be on the safe side. We don't have the corrosion issues down here (my rear beam looks almost new!) but the car's over 11 years now so it might need looking into.

I think half our problems will disappear with such a simple upgrade.

I've yet to try the proxi-align to see what else improves, like I said previously who knows. But it seems to be quite fussy about having a perfect earth path.

 

[steveras57]

I think half our problems will disappear with such a simple upgrade.

I've yet to try the proxi-align to see what else improves, like I said previously who knows. But it seems to be quite fussy about having a perfect earth path.

If ya think Italian cars are needy and demanding! you should try the women! ( Wife & three daughters- nothing like a hybrid ya know!)

 

[The Panda Nut]

The battery should run at 14 to 14.4v with the engine running and it should maintain 14v with the load at MAX with the engine running at over 1200 rpm (max) At rest, engine off, after an hour or two with the engine off it should still be around 12.6 to 13V. Sounds as if it is not charging and the alternator needs attention. Get the alternator tested and look at the battery as well.

 

[Piccolo Nero e Bella]

To be honest when you get to our age we are deteriorating faster than the cars reckon your weather helps you though

Yeah, getting up some mornings I creak louder than the bed!

 

[GettinBetter]

You guys need to explore intelligent alternator systems, they are completely different to ordinary alternator charging systems.
They have a lot more fancy features, that make them better. Charging at 14+ volts doesn't apply, they change charge rates depending on many more parameters.

They turn off charging when accelerating hard, turn off charging when starting, extrapolate battery temp from intake air temp and coolant temp, and change charge rate accordingly. The list goes on, but it never charges a fully charged battery, when it doesn't need it, and 12.7V is an optimally charged battery, thereby prolonging its life expectancy.

 

[steveras57]

You guys need to explore intelligent alternator systems, they are completely different to ordinary alternator charging systems.
They have a lot more fancy features, that make them better. Charging at 14+ volts doesn't apply, they change charge rates depending on many more parameters.

They turn off charging when accelerating hard, turn off charging when starting, extrapolate battery temp from intake air temp and coolant temp, and change charge rate accordingly. The list goes on, but it never charges a fully charged battery, when it doesn't need it, and 12.7V is an optimally charged battery, thereby prolonging its life expectancy.

As if life wasn't complicated enough! Just need the usa to vote trump in again! and we are all doomed for certain( other political opinions are available!).

 

[John202020]

After a weeks non use, battery 12.3v before start, 14.03v just after start, 13.8v full load 1000rpm soon after start if this helps people 4 year old battery 15 year old alternator

 

[vexorg]

We are doing our best here to try convince ourselves we dont need a new alternator