Why bother cleaning the tank and then say just swap it out for a petrol one?
Technical Old wives tales or not
- Thread starter koalar
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Technical Old wives tales or not
Now that might explain a lot about me. Back in the 60's I was up at Santa Pod on every possible occasion. The most powerful cars ran/still run on a mixture of methanol and nitro methane a team push car would push them down the fire up lane - which ran the length of the strip - at maybe 30 mph or so with the ignition off and clutch engaged until oil pressure was built up. Then they would flick the ignition switch and light up the engine. During the oil pressure building up phase neat fuel would be ejected from the exhausts and most of them ran some sort of "zoomie" headers so, if you were standing at the trackside (which I always was) you would be covered in a fuel rain and a few seconds later your eyes would be absolutely streaming with tears. Silly old git did I hear someone say?
Although I did watch one Drag race and thoroughly enjoyed it, generally they were all to far away from the South West
.With Kart racing we had the lovely smell of Castrol R racing oil.
My old Mk1 GT Cortina - Dragoon red with Lotus 5.5 J rims of course - was the precrossflow 1500 (twin choke downdraught webber) This was the second car I part owned with my father and I wasn't allowed to do much to it. Before that I had a 1275 Cooper "S" which I did quite a lot of mods to including some Downton engine (fast road) additions. It was quite a nippy wee thing. That car was part exchanged to a local garage where we bought the Cortina and a salesman was allowed to borrow it for his annual holiday (never heard of that happening before or since) but he crashed it off a bend at high speed on the second day of his holiday - simply going far too fast the Police said - and died. My father was really shocked by it as the garage was owned by a friend of his. I don't know if my father secretly blamed me for making it go faster, but I was forbidden from doing much more than changing a punctured tyre on the Cortina. I preferred the mini anyway The Cortina was nothing like as nimble on the twisty Borders roads.Hi Jock, I am not sure about the earlier ones, was the Austin A50s 1200cc you mentioned the very early B series? I remember doing a clutch on a Austin Devon pick up and the nuts and bolts (Whitworth?)that held the bellhousing, there was one right behind the distributor that was a pain to access, that and column change rods in the way also. The fact it was a local farmers work vehicle, covered in cow crap and I was working on a outside ramp/pit in winter time didn't help!
I did have a look at an old Haynes for Mk 2 Cortinas, but most of them were crossflow 1300cc and 1600cc, I think the 1100cc was a crossflow in the Fiestas. That agreed with you at 65/70ft lbs, so maybe the "old timers disease" hasn't quite caught you yet
The Mk 1 Cortina was 1200cc and 1500cc pre crossflow and Anglia 105E was 997cc and 1200cc pre crossflow, there was a Ford Classic which had a 1340cc or 1500cc engine. The 1500cc was the strongest engine as it had a 5 main bearing crank all the other pre crossflow were three bearing including the 1340cc which allowed me to make a 1340cc capacity of one of my 997cc Ford Anglia engines simply by changing the crankshaft and conrods to increase the stroke, so externally looking at the engine it was a 997cc, though as I kept the original 997cc cylinder head even with 5 star petrol pinking due to the very much higher compression and my driving soon knocked the bottom end out of it!
Another bit of useless information I have just recalled was those pre crossflow Ford engine blocks had a casting number and the number nearest to the highest T12 was the thickest block for any oversize boring etc. I had an excellent little book at the time called Tuning Small Fords.
We always used Glasses Technical Service Books, I was sorry when Auto Data took over, I had a pile of the Glasses TSD a foot high and should have kept them. It was the 75ft lbs I seemed to recall from there, but as the bosses had a strong family connection with the local Ford dealers maybe that was their preferred setting. Though they didn't pay highly , they were very good to work for and I learnt a lot from them, also they allowed me to use all the facilities for my own vehicles evenings and weekends
Here is a question, can you remember the first clutch job you did on your own,? Mine was a 1147cc? Triumph Herald and with the seats right back you did most of it from inside the car after removing carpet and largest "compressed cardboard" cover held in by lots of tiny screws and you undid the front bolts of the propshaft only , then pushed it to one side.
First clutch ever? My 1935 Morris 8. It was late '50s and I was just leaving school. I'd already had a 1930 Morris Minor - doesn't look anything like you'd recognize as a Minor though. Bought as a non runner from "Jonny" Mid's scrap yard in the station yard for, I think, 10/- (ten shillings). I got it going and raced all around the fields in it until after just a few weeks the engine made a horrible noise and seized. I took the head and sump off and found a pinhole in one of the bore walls which was letting water very slowly dribble into the sump. The result was inevitable! The Morris 8 belonged to the gardener who worked in our small agricultural venture. We (the family) had 3 fields and a walled garden which my father, in addition to his professional life, ran as a project. (he didn't do the gardening, hence the gardener, who became a great friend and taught me a lot about machines as he worked on our cultivators, lawn mowers etc). The Morris was not really a very reliable car and spent more time in the stables than on the road. Foolish youth that I was, I swapped the single pot 350 trials/scramble AJS I had at the time for it. He got by far the better part of the deal but it gave me a car to tear around the fields in again. Anyway, one day I stood on the clutch and was rewarded by a terrible noise. Geordie, the gardener, let me borrow the tool kit (mostly crude open enders) from the horticultural machine shed and after a lot of struggling and advice from him, I discovered the carbon thrust release bearing had broken up big time and damaged the release arms etc (old arm type cover with coil springs). Fitted new clutch and went tearing round the fields again. Whole job took over a week! Somewhere I've posted pictures before of both those cars. If I can find them in the chaos which is my pictures file I'll repost them for you. The Minor was "Esmiralda" and the Morris 8 "Genefine".
Most of the clutches I did were on BMC/BL (whatever they were calling themselves at the time) but I did a few on other stuff especially in the very early days when I worked in the Tyre and Auto store. One rather unusual one I did a fair few of was the wee DAFs. Centrifugal dry clutches. The early ones were not much more than big lawnmower clutches - a drum with centrifugal fingers inside which threw out as revs increased - later efforts had a conventional lining but with a centrifugally operated pressure plate. With both it was very important to let the engine return to idle when standing still otherwise the friction faces would wear rapidly. Of course people found you could hold the car on a hill by simply increasing revs slightly but all the time it was doing this it was wearing and "cooking" the friction linings. it was quite a common job to do on them. The wee 2 cylinder ones were grand to do. No radiator and the front panel unbolted. A few fixings to undo and you could lift the engine out by hand if you really had to. Not even a gearbox to worry about because all that stuff was in the back and the propshaft was simply splined to the clutch output shaft, just pull on the engine and the shaft dropped off! Parts prices made it a not exactly cheap job but when Volvo took over parts prices went stratospheric and killed off a lot of otherwise viable repairs. I reached the conclusion they just wanted to dissociate themselves from these wee, rather noisy and unrefined but reliable vehicles.
By the way, I remember the Heralds very well and have done a few clutches on both them and their bigger brothers the Vitesse. - Had an early 1600 saloon myself. Remember the the fast wearing nylon bushes in the suspension and the slightly weird needle roller rear wheel bearings? Nice cars though, I liked them even if the swing axle rear end could make "spirited driving" interesting! Did you ever do a clutch on a triumph 1300 FWD? It had a removable splined shaft between the clutch centre plate and the geartrain which dropped the drive to the gearbox under the engine - but separate from it, not like a Mini or 1100 etc. I only ever did a couple and one was a real sod because I couldn't get the shaft out (it was a slide hammer job) The whole job was a bit like the early Astras where the gearbox remained in place, the shaft was pulled out and the clutch replaced with engine and gearbox still bolted together. The Astra went in from the bottom whereas the Triumph went in fro the top. Some interesting videos on you tube for anyone that's interesting.
Ahh, Castrol R, used to put a wee dollop into the Bantam just to get the smell! Caused a very interesting carbon buildup in the head which looked like an inverted turtle shell!Although I did watch one Drag race and thoroughly enjoyed it, generally they were all to far away from the South West
With Kart racing we had the lovely smell of Castrol R racing oil.
I have to clarify my point, as I stick injector clean in my motors every few months, I mean those ‘inline injector’ cleans where they interrupt the feed between tank and injector…I got it for free (cant remember why, think it was a dealer promotion), but I can honestly say it was no better than sticking a £10 bottle of injector clean into the tank…no way would I pay £75 for it
The carbon thrust bearings didn't last long, also the spring and finger clutches took more pedal pressure so didn't help I expect.
Yes fitted a few of those little centrifugal brake shoes in the DAF 33s and 44s plus the drive belts, customers would come in a say they heard a big bang under the car and sure enough the belt had broken, lucky for them it would still transmit drive with one side only somehow, don't know how the diff worked.
Did lots of the herald nylon bushes and those needle roller bearings, I recall the extractor would bend the rear wheel hub flange getting it off the drive shaft.
Waasn't a fan of the triumph rear suspension, preferred the Ford and proved it by passing my mate in his Spitfire on a tight bend. SAH made a suspension kit for the Triumph I recall.
I vaguely recall doing the odd 1300 FWD triumph clutch but not as many as the Astra you mentioned.
Vauxhall seemed to consider the poor mechanic in those days, even the bigger cars like the Victors, Bedford CAs and Crestas where you left the bell housing behind, dropped an inspection plate to undo the two bottom gearbox bolts and after doing the top two and propshaft the gearbox pulled away so you just had the clutch pressure plate bolts.
Yes fitted a few of those little centrifugal brake shoes in the DAF 33s and 44s plus the drive belts, customers would come in a say they heard a big bang under the car and sure enough the belt had broken, lucky for them it would still transmit drive with one side only somehow, don't know how the diff worked.
Did lots of the herald nylon bushes and those needle roller bearings, I recall the extractor would bend the rear wheel hub flange getting it off the drive shaft.
Waasn't a fan of the triumph rear suspension, preferred the Ford and proved it by passing my mate in his Spitfire on a tight bend. SAH made a suspension kit for the Triumph I recall.
I vaguely recall doing the odd 1300 FWD triumph clutch but not as many as the Astra you mentioned.
Vauxhall seemed to consider the poor mechanic in those days, even the bigger cars like the Victors, Bedford CAs and Crestas where you left the bell housing behind, dropped an inspection plate to undo the two bottom gearbox bolts and after doing the top two and propshaft the gearbox pulled away so you just had the clutch pressure plate bolts.
Daf 33, 44 and 55 had no diff, shock horror! The propshaft took the drive back to the primary unit and all that did was turn the drive round through 90 degrees. So the two primary pulleys were on a common shaft. if one turned the other did too at exactly the same rpm. The two secondary units were separate and driven by the belts from the primary unit. so at very slow speeds, before a speed was reached where the pulley ratios started to vary, both rear wheels were driven at the same speed - like a locked diff. However once the speed increased (I don't know, but maybe beyond around 8 to 10 mph?) the pulley pitch could change which allowed differential speeds between the inner and outer wheel when cornering. Because at slow speeds the axle was in effect locked it made for some very interesting steering characteristics, specally on slippy surfaces. However, even when differentiation was taking place it wasn't really like a "proper" diff in that one wheel could never stand still whilst the other spun. So, on snow especially, they would keep going virtually until the floor pan started sledging and took the wheels off the road surface. Later the 46 and 66 introduced a secondary unit which incorporated a diff. on these (and the Volvo badged version) the primary unit was virtually the same as the older one but the secondary unit also had a straight through shaft on which the pulleys were mounted. so there was no differentiation taking place between the pulleys and load was shared equally between both belts. The solid straight through shaft in the secondary unit, in effect, carried a pinion gear which engaged with a conventional crown wheel with diff and spider gears driving the drive shafts out to the wheels. 66 belts lasted considerably longer. The 46 was a progression of the 44 with the wee aircooled engine and the 66 transmission but with one pair of pulleys deleted - so it only used one belt and had a "proper" diff. Rear suspension on these mocels was considerably better too with a beam type axle replacing the swing axles on the 33,44 and 55. I found the 46 and 66 tended to hold on to lower ratios too long for me so always seemed to be reving more than needed. The 55 (and the lesser models) you could modulate the throttle pedal and get it to use vacuum to suck the primary pulley halves together much earlier which reduced revs and let you waft along quite quietly.
This is an example of the earlier system:
The primary unit is nearest to you with it's solid shaft running between the pulleys on either side - so no diff action. The secondary units are at the top of the picture and you can see the secondary pulleys mounted to their separate drive shaft casings which operate as swing arms (DAF, for some reason known only to them called them Oscillating Arms and they were not unknown to crack! As the speed of the primary pulleys increase internal centrifugal weights force the pulley haves together thus making the effective pulley radius larger. The rear pulley halves are held together with large diaphragm springs so the front pulleys forcing the belt - which is of fixed length - to ride at an increased radius pulls the belt deeper into the rear pulley halves which pull apart but keep pressing against the belt sides under the influence of the diaphragm springs within. The driving experience was pretty unique. From a standstill, if you floored the throttle, the revs would rise initially to maybe 2.500 to 3.000 rpm (I'm guessing) where it momentarily stayed until the clutch was fully engaged whereupon revs would very quickly rise to the speed governed by the centrifugal weights in the primary units. Keep the throttle buried and the revs stayed there but the car would pick up speed as the pulleys pulled together. The whole system was worked out so that the primary unit springs kept the engine on it's max power rev band all the time it was accelerating at full throttle. It was no ball of fire but as it was always on max power and there were no gearchange pauses in the transmission of power they actually went surprisingly well. The 55 Marathon was avery nippy car and I once gave a Cooper S a good run for his money away from the lights in the boss's Marathon. Of course it would be very tiring to have the engine buzzing away at max revs all the time so if you backed off on the throttle there was a big rubber diaphragm in the primary unit pulleys connected via a control body (valve) to the inlet manifold (vacuum) and it would suck the pulley halves together effectively putting you in top gear. Mash the pedal to the metal and the vacuum would be voided letting the pulleys go back to riding on the centrifugal weights and giving you a lower ratio - in effect like "kick down" - for accelerating.
Here's a 66:
This time the secondary unit is nearest you. You can see the two drive shafts with their CV joints then the casing containing the diff with the secondary pulleys on their common shaft. Follow the belts forward and that's the primary unit, again, no diff in their, both pulleys on a common shaft. You can see the large "caps" on the primary pulleys inside which are the rubber diaphragms and it you look at the "pointy ends" on either side of these pulleys you can see the vacuum lines where they enter the vacuum chambers. ( wee ball race seals). The variomatic operation is really the same between the two but the addition of the diff in the later models allowed the load to be much better shared between the belts thus increasing their service life and made the driving experience at slow speeds much more pleasant. Doing away with the swing axles was no hardship either although I've driven then quite fast through bends and they always felt quite "planted" to me.
One thing you had to remember was that the selection between forward and reverse was by a simple dog clutch. So you had to move the selector rapidly between the two so the shaft didn't have time to spin up in the neutral position. Doing it slowly would be accompanied by a very loud gears crashing noise and lots of damage if you did it often. Also interesting that on earlier cars (pre 46 and 66) you started in gear! yes really! this was so the shafts couldn't spin up in neutral. We always took customers on an extended test drive to familiarize them with "the DAF driving experience" and very rarely had customers wrecking their primary units. Later cars installed an electronic brake (never had one in pieces so don't know about it) but it allowed starting in neutral as it locked the propshaft in some way.
You might notice that these systems are very similar in concept to the modern metal segmented belt CVT. Just before DAF sold up to Volvo my boss went on a sales "jolly" - didn't take me too, grumph! - to the main Van Doorne Factory where they were shown a 66 model, which he said was going to be the 77, which had fully enclosed metal belt CVT. He was very excited about it when he got back but "events" transpired and within months we were Polski Fiat dealers and I'd moved on. I'm very vague about what happened to that CVT but I've heard stories that it's basically the selectamatic which appeared in the MK1 Panda? I'm probably wrong though - anyone?
Oh, and bent rear hub flanges? yes the Marina was the same, Break out the welding torch and a large nozzle! My two strongest "persuaders" are made from old marina half shafts. Put a length of scaffold pole on the end and you'll move the planet!
Oh yes, and DAFs, earlier ones anyway - before they spoilt the party - could go as fast backwards as they could forwards, if you were very brave, or stupid!:
Notice the wee white 33 van? I had one of those, mine was blue. Put rear windows and a rear seat from the saloon into it and it was very comfortable and practical.
Notice the wee white 33 van? I had one of those, mine was blue. Put rear windows and a rear seat from the saloon into it and it was very comfortable and practical.
The Vitesse made a lovely noise and went quite well but was a bit fragile. I managed to burst a tooth off the crownwheel on mine doing a "racing start" away from the lights - I was quite young? anyway, it pushed the bit of tooth up the back of the crown wheel where it wedged itself between the back of the cast iron casing and the crown wheel. For about 100 yards it felt as if the engine was seizing as it slowed even though the throttle was floored. Then there was an almighty BANG from the back and it all went loose again. I was in heavy traffic so I had to go about a mile or so before I could stop and take a look at all the oily disaster under the back end. Luckily I was only a couple of miles from home so I drove it very gently home, removed the entire diff and it's casing all in one and fitted one from a scrapper. I gave serious thought to doing that decamber spring but was short of money with our first child about to put in an appearance so "the boss" would never have agreed to the cost so I never did it. Of course they properly sorted it on the Mk2 with uprights and jointed driveshafts, just a pity they spoilt it using rotoflexes for the outer driveshaft joints. I've found these type of joint work well in low torque applications but not so much for high torque stuff like driveshafts. Same problem on the Imp and some of the Lotus's (or is it Loti?).
OP
OP
Drag racing looks boring on TV
But the pro racing is exciting
2x 10 000 HP engines with no silencers
Goes like a rocket
Engine blows up
Bogs down
Crashes
Looses straight line and has to back off early
After each and every run the engines are stripped and prepared for the next run
Yup, you need to be there for the full experience. Engines so violent their exhausts create pressure waves you feel with your body! When my daughter lived in the eastern US her husband and I would visit Budds Creek (Maryland Raceway) and I loved every minute of it.
Motorcyclist Colin
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As could a Messersmit Kabin roller. Reverse "gear" changed the timing of the two stroke engine which then ran backwards I once drove someone elses 197cc Bond Minicar where "reverse " selected itself after a stop. It was a bit disconcerting to go backwards when you were expecting forward
Steal my thunder by all means Jock as long as the stories keep coming. and you have reminded me of another RAC story.
Patrols had to be at their RAC box at certain times each day so the Boss could phone you if necessary (1950s no mobile phones) .My box was at a crossroads on the A20 almost at the bottom of a long hill. Coasting down the hill came a dead engine scooter, with two youngsters aboard. "Can you help us Mister, engine wont go"" What have you checked?"" Nuffin,Mister don't know how" "Are you members?" " No but will you help us we're goin' tourin' in France"
I removed the plug which was totally bridged with oily carbon. cleaned it and refitted and the scooter started straight away. With thanks the couple set of to tour France without even a plug spanner and totally devoid of knowledge. That was bad enough but their "Luggage " consisted of several brown paper parcels tied up with string and hung around any projection on the scooter!!!! Fine in that sunny day but I have ever since had visions of them running into a storm, brown paper disintigrating, and spare knickers, dirty underpants, and other sundry other personal items being strewn along the Route Nationale. Think about it!
Incidentally apologies for posting so much rubbish about bikes/scooters etc in a Forum about cars, but the clue is in the name. Perhaps it should have been in the "......Old Farts " thread anyway
thanks Colin.
The clue's in the word "youngsters" Colin. At that age and with the love of your life, or the moment, hanging on tight behind you the world's your oyster and nothing else matters.
long gone are the days when a frilly pair of knickers raised a sweat under my collar. These days I use our old pants/knickers as garage rags, At this very moment there's a pair of Mrs J's very best under the U bend of the kitchen sink which has just started to weep water very gently - can't be bothered to do anything about it tonight. Mind you it can have it's funny moments - the look on the neighbours face as I'm disappearing under the bonnet to wipe an oil spill with a frilly pair of knickers can be worth a few moments of reflection later.
PS, although 2 strokes are few and far between on the road these days I quite often run into "whiskered" plugs on the horticultural stuff especially when older people, more used to 25:1 oil mixes, run that sort of ratio on more modern machines which typically can run 50:1.
Well, I for one am not worried at all. Most of us "old farts" will have ridden bikes at some time, very probably when we were younger, so it's all part of the rich mix and brings back many happy memories.
The racing looked fun , I can see why there are not many still around, it reminded me why I always crashed my push bike when I tried riding with my hand crossed
. We were not a Daf dealer so only worked on a few , mainly 33 and 44 with the ocassional 55 Marathon, though I do remember removing the vacuum pipes to fit new drive belts. The local dealer was Dennis Kelly at Market Street Garage, long gone now.I was going to mention along with the nylon bushes the rotoflex couplings were shared by Lotus Elan I think , our storeman used to work for the Lotus Agent and saved his boss money by supplying Triumph parts at Lotus prices, when working for us, he also broke a part ex Wartburg selling the parts to customers who wanted a cheap body part or whatever as we were the agents, the £70 p/ex made over £2000 by the time it was down to the bare chassis, not bad in the 1970s, it made more than double the retail value of a brand new one!!!
The Villiers 197cc on some of the Bond three wheelers had two sets of points and a Dynastart system so they could stop and restart in reverse being two strokes, so if timing out and rolled back it was possible for one to start running backwards.
The ones with twin contacts giving official reverse were supposedly for people who had passed their driving test, otherwise they were legal to drive on L plates like my 600cc Matchless sidecar.
We had a customer from the village when I was an apprentice who allegedly drove into his tiny garage and couldn't get out having no reverse on his Bond Minicar model.
The 197cc Villiers engine was similar to the ones we used in Kart racing, tuned up of course.
I have a friend who still has a Bond Minicar, we did take a drive down the A38 to a transport cafe for a breakfast, not something I am keen to repeat with 44 tonne lorries up your *rse!
Always fancied a Berkeley Bandit. Well why not? - they had a Villiers didn't they?
Nice looking car, a lot cleaner than the one I looked several years ago.
Judging by the "reverse gear" he could have done with the twin sets of contact points option and the two position on his Dynastart. Apparently with that option if you were too quick stopping and restarting in reverse you ended up with a very damaged Dynastart.
