General My new purchase stalls literally every time.. can't even make a 5 miles trip in 2 days

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General My new purchase stalls literally every time.. can't even make a 5 miles trip in 2 days

Sylvester22

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Hi all, I've just posted my newbie-thread, unfortunately I've mentioned there's been a very odd and big issue, and I'm looking for some opinions please.

Just in nutshell: my Bravo, The Tazmania Devil, according to the previous owner, had no issue like this before. He looked very honest, even told me stuff I'd no chance seeing, had all paperwork, M32 was done as well, car seemed well taken car off.

After buying the Bravo, driving back home 20 minutes on a bumpy road went fine, but then reversing on the driveway, after few seconds the engine slowly died. I thought it has Start-Stop, which hasn't got, so I didn't think much of it, but a bit later it didn't want to start again.
After 30min wait, it started right up.
Talked to the seller, I said let's wait and see.

Then next day, I went to register the car on my name, a few quick engine start-ups went fine, as the station had to checks vin numbers by law, but when all was done, the car didn't start again. After 45 minutes it fired up suddenly, but 2 streets later the engine CUTS OUT during drive! I barely managed to pull off a busy street. Bit of wait and car starts again, I'm very stressed, but thinking it must be something of a small issue, I drove home those few streets.

Next day, on Saturday afternoon I went for a 30min drive, it was really nice, but after reversing to the parking bay, the engine slowly cut again, and didn't want to start.
Hill-start and ASR, ESP lights come on usually, but they dissappeare after few minutes drive.

Sunday I drove to the seller, we checked the car and found the fuel cap broken. I was thinking that may be the issue, the seller felt bad and gave me 4 alloys, which I payed 50% off, I needed them for winter anyway. I didn't want to give up on the car, so I carried on.

Unfortunately I couldn't even driven off, the engine didn't want to start. I waited an hour, still nothing, so left the Bravo there and came home. Thanks mum for the lifts.
Today, I went back and engine fired up right away. Changed the fuel cap too. Then 5 min later, I had to reverse back due road closure, then in 2nd gear, with a sudden jerk, the engine cuts out again. I bought a not-cheap but simple OBD scanner, only one in my area, and the fault code mentioning Turbo Solenoid came up. I deleted as could've been an old code, but the car still didn't start, even after an hour wait. No more fault codes after that either.

2nd time the car has been parked on some street far away from me, as it stalls so often, it can't even make a 5 mile trip back home.

What I've noticed:
-the battery was suspicious, but it's only a few months old and has 13v.
-Half of engine cuts happen shortly after reversing
-No EML light. The occasional ASR and ESP lights go away after 1-2 minutes drive.
-apart from the Turbo Solenoid code, no other codes shown, but it's a cheap scanner. I'm getting Multiecuscan, but order takes over a week.
-Brake light switch has been changed, brake lights don't show when they not supposed to.
-engine temp solid around middle
-no beeping sound, the engine just cuts out like it has Start-Stop.
-Chip tuning is 2.5 years old
-Oil bit dark but been changed 4 months ago.
-After a few hours wait the engine fires up, but cuts out soon enough, then requires many hours of wait again
-During driving sudden jerk and engine dies(2 times) or after reverse parking (8-10 times). These happened in a span of 4 days. For now, my only suspicion is Turbo Solenoid failure, perhaps the turbo over-heats and cuts the engine.

QUESTIONS: I've found the 1.4 t-jet Turbo Solenoid part number, 55203202/70060700, but can't find info on it's location, and how to change it. Any link on that?

With the chip-tuning is around 150hp, so should I look for part for original 120hp verison, or 150hp version?
I've good basis with cars, I'd changed Throttle Bodies, adapted EGR etc, but never had a Turbo car.
I'm going back tomorrow as well, I may even make it back home...
Thanks in advance, any help is appreciated.
 
Yes, there is the ECU and you can unplug it, nothing will be lost. But it won't get you anywhere, I say. Your problem is not with ECU.
To me, yours looks to be totally a crankshaft sensor. It is the only one that has this behavior, fails while is hot. And gives no error message, as it communicates with ECU, very good while cold and not good at all after getting hot. So, you can measure it with a multimeter, cold and hot or you can just replace it with a new one and see if that fixes the problem.
The U1601 error you should fix if you can, but I don't think it has anything to do with your problem. I think it's there all the time. I never heard of a CAN BUS problem manifesting itself just when engine is hot. The crankshaft sensor does that.
There are 2 separate errors. The CAN error could be strictly electric / electronic. It won't have any influence on the sensor error.
 
I've read up about this, and others had mentioned the ECU itself can overheat, due cable connection issues and so on, which could lead to it's shut down and only works good again, when all it's been cooled down.
Also timming sensor = camshaft sensor need to be checked. It is on top of engine so it stay hot long time.
If no signal from crankshaft and camshaft sensor the engine no start.
 
I'll have a look, I assume it's this one?
20241122_133640.jpg

Is there a way to test it, or should I just get another one? Thanks
 
I'll have a look, I assume it's this one?
Is there a way to test it, or should I just get another one? Thanks
Look with MES at the voltage when you start the car and if this voltage change when the engine became hot. Even you can make graphic check from MES.
Then compare these values with those when the engine refuse to start. Or run with the car and when it stop and refuse to start remove the sensor ( carefuly it is hot area there ) put the sensor into the freezer for 5-7 minutes , put back the sensor and check if now the car engine will start with this sensor at low temperature than the engine temperature.
 
Look with MES at the voltage when you start the car and if this voltage change when the engine became hot. Even you can make graphic check from MES.
Then compare these values with those when the engine refuse to start. Or run with the car and when it stop and refuse to start remove the sensor ( carefuly it is hot area there ) put the sensor into the freezer for 5-7 minutes , put back the sensor and check if now the car engine will start with this sensor at low temperature than the engine temperature.
That's an interesting idea, it'd cool down the sensor much quicker for sure. I'll have a look how the temperature changes around it, thanks.
 
I don't know if putting a hot sensor in a freezer won't be a too big thermal shock. I'd cool it down with compressed air, or just waving around kept in a hand, I assume it's not +30 in Hungary now :)

On the other hand I adore the internet: a Hungarian, a Romanian and a Pole discussing a problem of on Italian car on an English forum :D
 
How about thinking of the basics?
When it cuts out and will not re-start what is missing;
Fuel?
Air?
Spark?

Computer codes (or lack of codes) are a guide, often not directly pointing to a solution.
 
I don't know if putting a hot sensor in a freezer won't be a too big thermal shock. I'd cool it down with compressed air, or just waving around kept in a hand, I assume it's not +30 in Hungary now :)

On the other hand I adore the internet: a Hungarian, a Romanian and a Pole discussing a problem of on Italian car on an English forum :D
I'll leave the freezer door open lol.
Sounds about right though, also British lads too, so Italy is supported from all angle (y)
 
How about thinking of the basics?
When it cuts out and will not re-start what is missing;
Fuel?
Air?
Spark?

Computer codes (or lack of codes) are a guide, often not directly pointing to a solution.
I've been checking different possibilities, even changed Crankshaft sensor, which has matched the symptoms but had no relevant fault code, just to be sure, unfortunately didn't help.

The really feels sensor/electric issue, when the engine has cooled down, it's start right away and sounds very smooth, then it does suddenly. I've checked the Camshaft sensor, wiped it off, no outside issues, wiring looks solid too, but I might change it tomorrow to be sure.

Does new Camshaft sensor needs adaptation?
Cheers
 
Have you actually looked to see if spark at spark plug after it cuts out?

Have you thought about fuel pump failing?

Checked air filter for blockage? Inlet piping?
 
Have you actually looked to see if spark at spark plug after it cuts out?

Have you thought about fuel pump failing?

Checked air filter for blockage? Inlet piping?
I've checked air hoses, those look good no gunk inside, I was thinking fuel pump too, but not sure how warn engine would affect it.

When the warm engine doesn't start, I can hear the engine turning, but kind of feels like when using the wrong key, so the software just locks the system.
 
I've checked air hoses, those look good no gunk inside, I was thinking fuel pump too, but not sure how warn engine would affect it.

When the warm engine doesn't start, I can hear the engine turning, but kind of feels like when using the wrong key, so the software just locks the system.

Spark?

Immobilizer will not stop engine once it is running

Failing electric Fuel pump may work for a short time then stop
 
I'd cool it down with compressed air
Look with MES at the voltage when you start the car
Hi all, 30 MINUTES IDLE-WARM ENGINE, THEN STALL INSPECTION:
Screenshot_20241127_190814_Sketchbook.jpg


1-4: luke warm plugs, but 4th is warmer (swapped around to check later, few bottom holders are split, but seems fine)
5: Camshaft sensor is cold-ish
6: Oil separator is luke warm
7: Diverter Valve clicks after gas, cold-ish
8: ECU is cold
9: ABS sensor wire very angled but OK
10: Left side of turbo is VERY hot to touch, supposed to be cold-side?

30min engine idle is good, a few rapid gas blip and engine stalls.
BEEP and MESSAGE: "EXCESSIVE RADIATOR FLUID TEMPERATURE! STOP AND TURN OFF ENGINE."
Didn't need that, it stalled right away.

Coolant level is above low, no leaks, dash gauge shows 90c, MES shows 87c. Radiator fan didn't turn on.

ONLY fault code: U1601 CAN Network. No other details.

MES & Multimeter battery voltage 12.7-14.4v, fault screenshot 9.4v--> I don't understand the last one.

QUESTIONS:
1- Is this the coolant sensor? Need to check sensor and wires probably.
20241127_194850.jpg


2- Any sensor temps concerning?
3- Anyhing else to check?

Thanks for checking it out.
 
"EXCESSIVE RADIATOR FLUID TEMPERATURE! STOP AND TURN OFF ENGINE."
Wow.

Have you checked the radiator and hoses temperature? And the coolant in the reservoir on the photo?

Perhaps there's something blocking the coolant flow in the engine block? A friend of mine was having a similar problem, it seems the previous owner was driving for very short distances only, so put a restrictor in a hose just outside of the engine block...

Is the water pump working? Take off the belt and check if the pulley is turning. I assume you'd hear the slipping belt though.

During driving was there any warm air coming out from the vents?

When the engine is cold the coolant uses the small circuit (engine block and the air heater), when it reaches the designed temperature (more or less 90 degrees, depending on the engine specification and thermostat used), the thermostat opens the big circuit including the radiator. The thermostat is purely mechanical (a bimetal part is used to activate it), but a temperature sensor should be somewhere around. And probably this sensor could be failing. Depending on the position, some coolant may flow out if you remove it.

Lots of new things to check now :)
 
Have you checked the radiator and hoses temperature? And the coolant in the reservoir on the photo?
The "excessive temperature" didn't show up on dashboard or MSE. Those showed >90c.
Like the ECU just made it up. The cooling fan didn't even turn on. Coolant level is above minimum.
Engine hadn't been modified. Hot air comes from vents. Coolant hoses feels warm, so coolant flows thorough, seems water pump works fine.

I'm looking for the coolant sensor, I can't find that diagram for 1.4 t-jet.
The turbo gets very hot though, even on idle.
I'll try to run the engine with open coolant cap, to let any air-pocket out.
Apart from finding the coolant sensor and checking it, I can't do much more.
It's a recent purchase, 2 weeks, and barely drove it, as it broke down 1 st day.
If I can't fix it till Friday, I'll have to arrange a trailer to Fiat shop, which ain't close nor gonna be cheap :(
 
ECU didn't made it up. I'd say it reads it from the sensor.

There are 3 diagrams with thermostat, that's the first one (1,4 TTRB EUR5):


1732746388517.png


I hope this will give you an idea where the thermostat is located.

Two 1,4 l engines are marked TTRB, the last one TASP. I understand the TTRB is for turbo, TASP for aspirated.

On the turbo engines it looks like that: sensor (nr 2) is IN the thermostat (nr 1): diagrams below. The connection looks similar, but the thermostat are different (55215006 EUR5 / 55208964 EUR4), the sensors (55190791) and gaskets (71753377) are the same. Both TTRB engines are 88kW (around 120 HP), the difference is the EUR norm. You have to check which one is yours.

I'd also check if the thermostat is correct. Perhaps someone put a wrong one by mistake OR put the other one due to chipping.

1732745713845.png
1732745949273.png


The thermostat is on the opposite side of the engine than the distribution and turbo. So yes, could be somewhere in the red circled area on the 3rd photo in post #76.

The sensor looks like that:

1732746703611.png


EDIT: the aftersales.fiat does not work again :( so I won't be able to check how to test the sensor. It shall give different voltage when hot / cold. But don't know the values.

Another useful information about the sensor:

1732748053601.png
 
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The "excessive temperature" didn't show up on dashboard or MSE. Those showed >90c.
Like the ECU just made it up. The cooling fan didn't even turn on. Coolant level is above minimum.
Engine hadn't been modified. Hot air comes from vents. Coolant hoses feels warm, so coolant flows thorough, seems water pump works fine.

I'm looking for the coolant sensor, I can't find that diagram for 1.4 t-jet.
The turbo gets very hot though, even on idle.
I'll try to run the engine with open coolant cap, to let any air-pocket out.
Apart from finding the coolant sensor and checking it, I can't do much more.
It's a recent purchase, 2 weeks, and barely drove it, as it broke down 1 st day.
If I can't fix it till Friday, I'll have to arrange a trailer to Fiat shop, which ain't close nor gonna be cheap :(
Your problem is not temperature sensor . It works ok. First speed fan 97 degree. Second = 102 degree. Thermostat open at 80 degree with 3-4 degree histerezis. If your radiator was hot then everything was ok. You read 87 degree from MES and this is ok. Let the reservoir cap on. Collant need pressure to boil at high temperature. If you remove the cap the collant boil at low temperature and this is not good. When the temperature indicator is on vertical position it indicate 75 to 95 degree temperature range. At 75 degree the temperature needle is it in same position as at 95 degree. You can test from MES if the radiator fan works.
You problem is U1601 can communication shut off. What you can do now is to clean all electric couples from every device with spray cleanner for electronic components. Also visual check the integrity of the electric contacts and the wires and loom integrity. There is electric conectors on fuse box inside the engine bay and inside the cabin.
Esppecially attention to connectors from fuse box from engine bay. May be water and oxidation there.
Also double check the +12 volts lines an grounds. It is a huge mission but must be done before you change ECU.
My experience with FIAT Service is not good at all but may be in Hungary there are professional fellows on this FIAT car service.
Your motor need fuel and signals from rpm , timming sensor and immobilizer for starting. You have 4 spark plugs and not all can be bad. Also same for injectors and coils. No others sensors can stop the engine to start.
 
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