General My new purchase stalls literally every time.. can't even make a 5 miles trip in 2 days

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General My new purchase stalls literally every time.. can't even make a 5 miles trip in 2 days

Sylvester22

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Hi all, I've just posted my newbie-thread, unfortunately I've mentioned there's been a very odd and big issue, and I'm looking for some opinions please.

Just in nutshell: my Bravo, The Tazmania Devil, according to the previous owner, had no issue like this before. He looked very honest, even told me stuff I'd no chance seeing, had all paperwork, M32 was done as well, car seemed well taken car off.

After buying the Bravo, driving back home 20 minutes on a bumpy road went fine, but then reversing on the driveway, after few seconds the engine slowly died. I thought it has Start-Stop, which hasn't got, so I didn't think much of it, but a bit later it didn't want to start again.
After 30min wait, it started right up.
Talked to the seller, I said let's wait and see.

Then next day, I went to register the car on my name, a few quick engine start-ups went fine, as the station had to checks vin numbers by law, but when all was done, the car didn't start again. After 45 minutes it fired up suddenly, but 2 streets later the engine CUTS OUT during drive! I barely managed to pull off a busy street. Bit of wait and car starts again, I'm very stressed, but thinking it must be something of a small issue, I drove home those few streets.

Next day, on Saturday afternoon I went for a 30min drive, it was really nice, but after reversing to the parking bay, the engine slowly cut again, and didn't want to start.
Hill-start and ASR, ESP lights come on usually, but they dissappeare after few minutes drive.

Sunday I drove to the seller, we checked the car and found the fuel cap broken. I was thinking that may be the issue, the seller felt bad and gave me 4 alloys, which I payed 50% off, I needed them for winter anyway. I didn't want to give up on the car, so I carried on.

Unfortunately I couldn't even driven off, the engine didn't want to start. I waited an hour, still nothing, so left the Bravo there and came home. Thanks mum for the lifts.
Today, I went back and engine fired up right away. Changed the fuel cap too. Then 5 min later, I had to reverse back due road closure, then in 2nd gear, with a sudden jerk, the engine cuts out again. I bought a not-cheap but simple OBD scanner, only one in my area, and the fault code mentioning Turbo Solenoid came up. I deleted as could've been an old code, but the car still didn't start, even after an hour wait. No more fault codes after that either.

2nd time the car has been parked on some street far away from me, as it stalls so often, it can't even make a 5 mile trip back home.

What I've noticed:
-the battery was suspicious, but it's only a few months old and has 13v.
-Half of engine cuts happen shortly after reversing
-No EML light. The occasional ASR and ESP lights go away after 1-2 minutes drive.
-apart from the Turbo Solenoid code, no other codes shown, but it's a cheap scanner. I'm getting Multiecuscan, but order takes over a week.
-Brake light switch has been changed, brake lights don't show when they not supposed to.
-engine temp solid around middle
-no beeping sound, the engine just cuts out like it has Start-Stop.
-Chip tuning is 2.5 years old
-Oil bit dark but been changed 4 months ago.
-After a few hours wait the engine fires up, but cuts out soon enough, then requires many hours of wait again
-During driving sudden jerk and engine dies(2 times) or after reverse parking (8-10 times). These happened in a span of 4 days. For now, my only suspicion is Turbo Solenoid failure, perhaps the turbo over-heats and cuts the engine.

QUESTIONS: I've found the 1.4 t-jet Turbo Solenoid part number, 55203202/70060700, but can't find info on it's location, and how to change it. Any link on that?

With the chip-tuning is around 150hp, so should I look for part for original 120hp verison, or 150hp version?
I've good basis with cars, I'd changed Throttle Bodies, adapted EGR etc, but never had a Turbo car.
I'm going back tomorrow as well, I may even make it back home...
Thanks in advance, any help is appreciated.
 
Pull yellow tab as much you can then keep press on black tab and pull from this part of the connector.
I do not see anything wrong with = batt terminal.
That'd good to know, cheers.
One of the bolts missing from the positive side, not sure that's how it should be?
20241121_154155.jpg

I was hoping Crankshaft Sensor is the issue, but it shows revs movements when starting the engine, so it's probably not. I'll look into the Camshaft Sensor too.

If I can't find anything, I'll call Fiat service next week, but I'd like to save some money so I'll try to find the issue.
 
I've checked the leads, all tight and looks good, even under the battery tray, apart from that 1 missing bolt on positive lead. The engine shuts down literally always at the same time, so few minutes after engine warmed up.
View attachment 455710
I was really hoping the crankshaft sensor was the issue, hot-temp stalling issue has matched that accurately, but now I'm back to square one.
I hear some clicking in the engine bay and a "puhf" after reving the engine, but that could be normal.

Btw how to remove the yellow tabs from things like sparks plugs and sensors?
It's a push, pull or lift it?
Thanks
The missing nut on the lowest bolt of the positive battery connector (the one marked with the red arrow in post #41) is not a problem. In fact, it's not missing. The bolt is there just in case some optionnal equipment would need extra power / cables.
 
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Hi, I've checked and when the warmed up engine stalls again, upon trying to restart it, it doesn't fire up, but the needle does moves slightly, picture shows the difference.
View attachment 455690

Does it mean the crankshaft sensor is actually good?
Are Crankshaft Sensor and Crankshaft Pulse sensor are the same?

I've noticed a bolt is missing from the positive battery lead, not sure that's important or not.
Cheers Mike
Is that that max speed it gets to when cranking?

As that seems very low for cranking speeds
 
Is that that max speed it gets to when cranking?

As that seems very low for cranking speeds
Yes that's the max. Today the engine has run faultless for 45min then stalled again, no EML or beep again just cuts out, and no re-start even after 3 hours. It needs to cool down completely, 4-5 hours, then fires up right away.

I've bought a crankshaft sensor, I'll change it tomorrow, not sure if it helps or not.
I've ordered the eml327 cable so I'll check the fault next week, I'd like to use the car I bought 8 days ago, with these issues feels like it's been 3 weeks, so ain't great being stuck like this.
 
Yes that's the max. Today the engine has run faultless for 45min then stalled again, no EML or beep again just cuts out, and no re-start even after 3 hours. It needs to cool down completely, 4-5 hours, then fires up right away.

I've bought a crankshaft sensor, I'll change it tomorrow, not sure if it helps or not.
I've ordered the eml327 cable so I'll check the fault next week, I'd like to use the car I bought 8 days ago, with these issues feels like it's been 3 weeks, so ain't great being stuck like this.
Why you dont go to service not express to Fiat service? They have tester and can make some checkings.
 
Yes that's the max. Today the engine has run faultless for 45min then stalled again, no EML or beep again just cuts out, and no re-start even after 3 hours. It needs to cool down completely, 4-5 hours, then fires up right away.

I've bought a crankshaft sensor, I'll change it tomorrow, not sure if it helps or not.
I've ordered the eml327 cable so I'll check the fault next week, I'd like to use the car I bought 8 days ago, with these issues feels like it's been 3 weeks, so ain't great being stuck like this.
I have had a few customers cars in the past and an old Doblo of my own that had crank sensors fail luckily they all restarted after about 10 minutes or so and when I tested the Doblo with diagnostics it had stored the error code for the crank sensor.:)
 
Why you dont go to service not express to Fiat service? They have tester and can make some checkings.
The nearest Fiat service is too far for the car to make it, it could stall half way there. I'm arranging a trailer for next week if all fails, that'll cost $$$ for sure, meaning the Crankshaft sensor change tomorrow, also I'm getting EML327 cable in a few days, so I can check MEC with a laptop.
 
So...I've received the EML327 cable and purchased MULTIECUSCAN license for my laptop.

These are the fault codes now:
P0039 - Turbo Vacuum Valve (Invalid/Stored)
U1601 - CAN Network (No Signal/Fatal)

I've done "Turbo Vacuum Valve actuator test", I thought it might be stuck. It clicked a few times. Then I tried to start the engine, but it shut off right away, and displayed "radiator fluid temperature too high" message".

20241126_152245.jpg

20241126_152252.jpg



So apparently 1 issue with immobiliser/keys, and 1 issue with Turbo Vacuum Valve.

I deleted the codes, but the U1601 stayed on.

Turbo Vacuum lines look solid. No visible damage on wires. During actuator test clicked 3 times. TURBO VACUUM VALVE ON PICTURE.

20241126_153058.jpg


Anyone has had these issues? I'm checking the forum and YT as well.
Cheers

I'VE JUST NOTICED!!---> The engine temperature changes MASSIVELY between the 2 pictures, I tooo them in the same minute! 1st: 78° / 2nd: 3°

Almost every detail is different! Engine rmp shows 0 then 2000? The engine wasn't even running. Battery is 12.6v, not 10.9?!
What is going on?!
 
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The can bus issue is the most serious U1601 Can Network, some say related to immobiliser.
Possibly at the BCM Body Control Module or other Can Bus wiring.
I suspect previous owner was aware as unlikely to have just developed.
So may be a bit more involved.
Still worth checking any spare keys and the immobiliser antennae at key/ignition switch along with wiring in that area.
 
So...I've received the EML327 cable and purchased MULTIECUSCAN license for my laptop.

These are the fault codes now:
P0039 - Turbo Vacuum Valve (Invalid/Stored)
U1601 - CAN Network (No Signal/Fatal)

I've done "Turbo Vacuum Valve actuator test", I thought it might be stuck. It clicked a few times. Then I tried to start the engine, but it shut off right away, and displayed "radiator fluid temperature too high" message".

View attachment 455995
View attachment 455997


So apparently 1 issue with immobiliser/keys, and 1 issue with Turbo Vacuum Valve.

I deleted the codes, but the U1601 stayed on.

Turbo Vacuum lines look solid. No visible damage on wires. During actuator test clicked 3 times. TURBO VACUUM VALVE ON PICTURE.

View attachment 455998

Anyone has had these issues? I'm checking the forum and YT as well.
Cheers

I'VE JUST NOTICED!!---> The engine temperature changes MASSIVELY between the 2 pictures, I tooo them in the same minute! 1st: 78° / 2nd: 3°

Almost every detail is different! Engine rmp shows 0 then 2000? The engine wasn't even running. Battery is 12.6v, not 10.9?!
What is going on?!

Those readings are a snap shot taken at time fault occured.... NOT live readings

The faults were logged at different times
 
Those readings are a snap shot taken at time fault occured.... NOT live readings

The faults were logged at different t

Those readings are a snap shot taken at time fault occured.... NOT live readings

The faults were logged at different times
Those codes appeared after deleting old codes first.
Either way, any suggestions? Cheers
 
So apparently 1 issue with immobiliser/keys,

I can't see that. I see the U1601, which is the CAN network issue.

Went through some local FIAT forums and this problem appears often in 'older' FIATs.

It seems that the electronics of the car (which is not a surprise for me) is very sensitive to voltage fluctuations.

First, check the connectors on the battery, if they are clean and are firmly attatched (the negative connector in my Ducato is a quick release one, it had a minor play even when attached, so I added a washer (where the arrow points) between the connector and a screw, now it holds the battery connector firmly).

1732646030565.png


Check the grounding cables (there are lots of them in the car, I wanted to find a diagram but it seems there isn't one for the Bravo or I just can't find it).

What is the voltage MES is showing when the engine is running? Should be around 14,4 V. Check also the charging voltage on the battery terminal. Should be more or less the same. If there's a bigger difference it can mean that there's some connection problem on the loom that goes to ECU / BCM. Could be due to higher resistance.

Disconnect the battery (following the procedure if there is one in the owners' handbook, as shorts on the battery can damage the airbag module) for some time - 20, 30 minutes. Same for BCM / ECU looms.

Once disconnected, check the BCM and ECU connectors for oxidation. Clean them if necessary. Use some contact spray. Try not to push too much of the product into the module (do it when the connectors are facing downwards).

Check if the main looms BCM / ECU looms do not touch any metal elements (body) that could lead to insulation damage and shorts.

After each step you can check for new errors on MES. After reconnecting the battery let the engine run for some time (15 - 20 minutes should be fine, you can go for a ride).
 
I can't see that. I see the U1601, which is the CAN network issue.

Went through some local FIAT forums and this problem appears often in 'older' FIATs.

It seems that the electronics of the car (which is not a surprise for me) is very sensitive to voltage fluctuations.

First, check the connectors on the battery, if they are clean and are firmly attatched (the negative connector in my Ducato is a quick release one, it had a minor play even when attached, so I added a washer (where the arrow points) between the connector and a screw, now it holds the battery connector firmly).

View attachment 456007

Check the grounding cables (there are lots of them in the car, I wanted to find a diagram but it seems there isn't one for the Bravo or I just can't find it).

What is the voltage MES is showing when the engine is running? Should be around 14,4 V. Check also the charging voltage on the battery terminal. Should be more or less the same. If there's a bigger difference it can mean that there's some connection problem on the loom that goes to ECU / BCM. Could be due to higher resistance.

Disconnect the battery (following the procedure if there is one in the owners' handbook, as shorts on the battery can damage the airbag module) for some time - 20, 30 minutes. Same for BCM / ECU looms.

Once disconnected, check the BCM and ECU connectors for oxidation. Clean them if necessary. Use some contact spray. Try not to push too much of the product into the module (do it when the connectors are facing downwards).

Check if the main looms BCM / ECU looms do not touch any metal elements (body) that could lead to insulation damage and shorts.

After each step you can check for new errors on MES. After reconnecting the battery let the engine run for some time (15 - 20 minutes should be fine, you can go for a ride).
I've already checked the battery leads, even under the battery tray, the earthing points too, all looks very solid. Even had a new battery in place, but engine stalled the same.

With multimeter voltage 12.7v, running 14.4v, didn't dip below 11v when starting the engine. When the engine is cold, starts great.

I'm gonna check the ECU, I reckon there's only 1 in the car, it's the one with the red circle?
Screenshot_20241126_201828_Chrome.jpg

Can I unplug it and back without issues? Does it loose some important data?

It's a shame as I literally bought it, as the seller looked very honest, but there's not many car electric professional around, so I'll give a couple of days to find the issue, then I'll start arranging a trailer.
Thanks
 
Yes, there is the ECU and you can unplug it, nothing will be lost. But it won't get you anywhere, I say. Your problem is not with ECU.
To me, yours looks to be totally a crankshaft sensor. It is the only one that has this behavior, fails while is hot. And gives no error message, as it communicates with ECU, very good while cold and not good at all after getting hot. So, you can measure it with a multimeter, cold and hot or you can just replace it with a new one and see if that fixes the problem.
The U1601 error you should fix if you can, but I don't think it has anything to do with your problem. I think it's there all the time. I never heard of a CAN BUS problem manifesting itself just when engine is hot. The crankshaft sensor does that.
 
Yes, there is the ECU and you can unplug it, nothing will be lost. But it won't get you anywhere, I say. Your problem is not with ECU.
To me, yours looks to be totally a crankshaft sensor. It is the only one that has this behavior, fails while is hot. And gives no error message, as it communicates with ECU, very good while cold and not good at all after getting hot. So, you can measure it with a multimeter, cold and hot or you can just replace it with a new one and see if that fixes the problem.
The U1601 error you should fix if you can, but I don't think it has anything to do with your problem. I think it's there all the time. I never heard of a CAN BUS problem manifesting itself just when engine is hot. The crankshaft sensor does that.
I've already changed that 2 days ago, Bosch, but same stalling. I was hoping that's the issue, but both Crankshaft sensor had shown rpm movements, even when warm engine couldn't fire up, so another waste of money. Cheers Mike
 
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